Mandolin G + D octave strings

[Ian Rae]

Hi there - I'm re-learning mandolin after a few years of a lay-off. I was reading recently of the practice some players use of substituting A + E strings for one each of the G + D strings and tuning them up to the G + D octave. The piece I read said 'some blues players' do this. I'm trying to measure the pros and cons and changes to the overall sound etc. By the way, blues fan as I am, I'll play anything I happen to like, so I'm not necessarily focused on one kind of music. It would be great to hear from anyone who does or has done this and swaps around or in fact has their instrument set up this way.
Ian

[Ranald]

I don't know what to say, except experiment and see what you think. I've had my mandolin-banjo tuned that way for some time, and now I'm re- experimenting with standard tuning. Octave tuning was, I think, used mostly by black musicians in the 1920's and 30's. There's a lively, aggressive sound to those old blues, jugband, and hokum musicians, who generally weren't aiming for sweetness, subtleness, or purity of tone. I like their sound and enjoy using the tuning which creates a ringing effect. Still, I have two other mandolins, and use octave tuning only on the mandolin-banjo. I've been doing some country picking lately (Kristofferson & Roger Miller songs), and wouldn't use octave tuning for that.

[mandopops]

It can be fun. Like Ronald said, if you have more than one Mandolin you could leave one with octaves. I’ve done it a few times for a Bluesy Carl Martin effect. Just temporarily. I wouldn’t use for anything else.
Joe B

[EdHanrahan]

... not necessarily focused on one kind of music.

FWIW... Before getting into mandolin, and wanting to NOT sound like the other guitars in a jam, I'd sometimes play 12-string capoed a bit up the neck, say at 7 or higher. Sounded sort of like a mandolin w/ octave strings!

Hey it's all fun, and: Welcome!!

[rickbella]

I've done something similar for a more "Latin" sound. I also restrung the A and E courses -- each with one of the heaviest-gauge strings I could find and one of the lightest-gauge strings I could find. That seemed to accent the effect.

[MrMoe]

Does any one know of any recordings of a mandolin strung this way? I have just started experimenting with this idea for nylon. I am going to try .010 and .016 red brand fishing line along with six of eight strings from a set of of a set of Aquilla reds. Could these be considered to be a mandolute? Regards, Maurice

[Ranald]

Does any one know of any recordings of a mandolin strung this way? I have just started experimenting with this idea for nylon. I am going to try .010 and .016 red brand fishing line along with six of eight strings from a set of of a set of Aquilla reds. Could these be considered to be a mandolute? Regards, Maurice

Here's Carl Martin, mentioned in Post #3:

https://www.mandolincafe.com/forum/t...mps-amp-Rags-8

[MrMoe]

Here's Carl Martin, mentioned in Post #3:

https://www.mandolincafe.com/forum/t...mps-amp-Rags-8

Thank you, That is an edgy sound almost harsh. The tension on the high G and D must be very high. How was the finger feel on your mandolin-banjo?

[Ian Rae]

Many thanks to everyone who replied to my question - all taken on board, and especially the heads up on Carl Martin whom I'd never previously heard - a hard bright sound indeed - cant wait to try it!
Ian

[Ranald]

Moe, you don't use the G and D strings that come in the package for octave tuning.
The way I was taught from a couple of blues-mandolin specialists was to do octave tuning only on the G and D strings. On the outside G position put a mandolin A string, then tune down to G. On the inside G, put a normal G string. On the outside D position, use a mandolin E string and tune down to D. On the inside D, use a D string. There's less rather than more tension. (I hope you didn't snap your mandolin neck tightening the low strings!) The downside is that you'll never empty all your packages of strings.

The string order is:
high G (on A string)
low (normal) G
high D (on A string)
low (normal) D
high (normal) A
high (normal) A
high (normal) E
high (normal) E

[MrMoe]

[QUOTE=Ranald;1806997]Moe, you don't use the G and D strings that come in the package for octave tuning.
Thank you, That explains a lot. I wish I could discern such things by ear. I did know better than to stress a good instrument so I use my string testing banjo. The .010 fishing line does hold for the high D but the volume seems weak. I have tried to do the math for string gauge, tension, and pitch but it is a bit advanced for me. When I find the right digital scale I will put it on my testing banjo to show the tension. Thanks again, Maurice

[Ranald]

[QUOTE=MrMoe;1807049]

Moe, you don't use the G and D strings that come in the package for octave tuning.
Thank you, That explains a lot. I wish I could discern such things by ear. I did know better than to stress a good instrument so I use my string testing banjo. The .010 fishing line does hold for the high D but the volume seems weak. I have tried to do the math for string gauge, tension, and pitch but it is a bit advanced for me. When I find the right digital scale I will put it on my testing banjo to show the tension. Thanks again, Maurice

Don't worry about not discerning the sound by ear. My ear's not that finely attuned either -- especially if I forget to put on my hearing aids. However, there are many people at the Cafe who help me with my musical problems. As well, I contacted a couple of professional musicians online -- complete strangers -- who were generous with their time and expertise, and taught me about octave tuning.

[Ian Rae]

Hi - many thanks - no I'm aware of the proper order, and I have to say Ive not tried it yet. I only have one mandolin and at present am casting around for a second. I currently use a Fender F shape which cost me around £400 new. I know what I would like . . .but in the UK its an elusive beast. I dont want to be constantly changing the string arrangement, but when I get a second instrument I'll set one up as an octave tuning.

[Ranald]

Hi - many thanks - no I'm aware of the proper order, and I have to say Ive not tried it yet. I only have one mandolin and at present am casting around for a second. I currently use a Fender F shape which cost me around £400 new. I know what I would like . . .but in the UK its an elusive beast. I dont want to be constantly changing the string arrangement, but when I get a second instrument I'll set one up as an octave tuning.

Hi, Ian.
I was providing that tuning information for "Mr. Moe," who didn't understand how it was done. Sometimes a thread births other conversations that move away from the original post (OP). I'm with you, about changing strings and tuning. It amazes me to see musicians who are forever re-tuning their instruments. I guess with guitars and banjos that's part of the process. By the way, Cape Breton fiddlers sometimes use "high-bass" tuning, tightening the G and D strings so that they're tuned to A and E. This tuning was usually used for tunes, such as "Cock of The North," that can be played entirely on the A and E strings. Two fiddlers could play the tune together at a dance, giving more volume and a little variety in sound, or a single fiddler could vary between playing the tune high and low, again for variety. Have fun with octave tuning when you're able to give it a try.

[allenhopkins]

I tune my Regal Octofone that way -- as an octave mandolin with the G (4th) and D (3rd) pairs "octaved." Has a big, full sound for chords, but tends to sound a bit muddy when playing melody on the 3rd and 4th courses.

Also, the Regal has a simple, uncompensated bridge, so the octave pairs don't stay "true" if you go up the neck. In my case, I seldom do that, but were I a more agile player, it might become more of an issue.

[mandroid]

It is a common setup on Irish Zouks .. which are long scale Octaves.. thin strings ..