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Thread: A vs. F

  1. #1

    Default A vs. F

    Apologies in advance as I assume his has been beat to death but I can't seem to find any pertinent info. I am waffling between a Weber A Yellowstone and an F Galliatin. I always assumed that the difference between the A and F bodies was cosmetic as was the difference between the Yellowstone and Gallatin models (bling, basically).

    Am I wrong?

  2. #2
    harvester of clams Bill McCall's Avatar
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    Default Re: A vs. F

    No, you have excellent analytical powers.
    Not all the clams are at the beach

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    Registered User Jon Hall's Avatar
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    Default Re: A vs. F

    I’ve found there are a couple of differences not related to tone or appearance. The weight of the F style headstock is heavier than an A style and has to be supported, especially when playing while standing. If I’m playing an F style while sitting, the point helps anchor the mandolin on my lap while my A style tends to move around a little.

  5. #4
    two t's and one hyphen fatt-dad's Avatar
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    Default Re: A vs. F

    I'm with Bill.

    No part of nothin'

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    Default Re: A vs. F

    All mandolins have different tone. The differences are often minimal. But then that's the fodder for all of us mandolin folk to opinionate about. The wood the maker the model and that's before playability, the strings , pick and players technique are engaged. Either Weber is likely a worthy instrument to spend time with. F models require more fitting and hand work so you will get more "bang for your buck" with an A model instrument. But in the end you have to play one before you know if it's the one for you. Enjoy the journey.
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    Registered User Eric Platt's Avatar
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    Default Re: A vs. F

    If made after 2018, the Yellowstone will have a dovetail neck joint while the Gallatin is a mortise and tenon. Whether that makes a difference is for you to decide.
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    Worlds ok-ist mando playr Zach Wilson's Avatar
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    Default Re: A vs. F

    I believe the two have different finishes (satin vs. gloss), which will cause subtle differences in the tone.

    Also, Weber has used different top woods over the years on both models (spruce vs. cedar... and maybe others???) and that will affect the tone.

  10. #8
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    Default Re: A vs. F

    Quote Originally Posted by Zach Wilson View Post
    I believe the two have different finishes (satin vs. gloss), which will cause subtle differences in the tone.
    I've never heard that one, and I don't see how it could be true.

  11. #9

    Default Re: A vs. F

    Quote Originally Posted by dave vann View Post
    I've never heard that one, and I don't see how it could be true.
    It comes from confirmation bias, basically. It's not made up or imagined, but it's not a repeatable observation. The old "correlation does not imply causation".
    Test out a room full of mandolins, notice that the three mandolins in the room have a darker tone, stronger midrange, or whatever. Post about it online. Someone reads the post, goes to another place, tests out a bunch of mandolins, finds maybe different subtle differences in tone, but differences nonetheless. Which are easily attributable to the varnish. It's just that, out of a dozen mandolins, the likelihood that "all the reddish ones" will have something in common, and "all the F styles" will have something in common, and "all the ones with radiused fretboards" will have something in common, is essentially guaranteed.

    The point to remember with all this stuff is that no musical instrument is the complete system in itself. The system is much more complex, and includes the room, the temperature and humidity, the instrument, the pick, the strings, and most importantly, the human.

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    Default Re: A vs. F

    Quote Originally Posted by Marty Jacobson View Post
    It comes from confirmation bias, basically. It's not made up or imagined, but it's not a repeatable observation. The old "correlation does not imply causation".
    Test out a room full of mandolins, notice that the three mandolins in the room have a darker tone, stronger midrange, or whatever. Post about it online. Someone reads the post, goes to another place, tests out a bunch of mandolins, finds maybe different subtle differences in tone, but differences nonetheless. Which are easily attributable to the varnish. It's just that, out of a dozen mandolins, the likelihood that "all the reddish ones" will have something in common, and "all the F styles" will have something in common, and "all the ones with radiused fretboards" will have something in common, is essentially guaranteed.

    The point to remember with all this stuff is that no musical instrument is the complete system in itself. The system is much more complex, and includes the room, the temperature and humidity, the instrument, the pick, the strings, and most importantly, the human.
    Well, it may and probably is true with different ears than mine ! I am positive that "I" would not be able to tell the difference ! This is the reason I drink cheap wine as I can't tell the difference in taste from two buck chuck to boutique wine !

  14. #11
    Registered User sblock's Avatar
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    Default Re: A vs. F

    If I'm not mistaken, the original Weber Gallatin model was not really an "F model." To save costs, it was unbound and it also had a partial scroll only, like this:

    Click image for larger version. 

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    Later versions of the Gallatin had full scrolls, more like a "real" F model, but still no binding:

    Click image for larger version. 

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    So, if you are buying used, it depends on which year of Gallatin "F" you are considering against the Yellowstone A. But if you're buying new, then I'd have to wonder why you're doing that. If the idea is to save money and get the best possible sound for your dollar, then "A vs. F" might matter a lot less than "old vs. new." Just saying...

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    Registered User Eric Platt's Avatar
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    Default Re: A vs. F

    If we're really getting down to the smaller points, no, the early Gallatin wasn't like a Gibson F, it was a different take with the scroll and headstock. Also, the early Gallatin appears to have been mahogany back and sides standard. With maple as an option.
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  18. #13

    Default Re: A vs. F

    Quote Originally Posted by sblock View Post
    If I'm not mistaken, the original Weber Gallatin model was not really an "F model." To save costs, it was unbound and it also had a partial scroll only, like this:

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	weber gallatin.jpg 
Views:	65 
Size:	116.7 KB 
ID:	191474

    Later versions of the Gallatin had full scrolls, more like a "real" F model, but still no binding:

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	weber gallatin 2.jpg 
Views:	54 
Size:	61.7 KB 
ID:	191475

    So, if you are buying used, it depends on which year of Gallatin "F" you are considering against the Yellowstone A. But if you're buying new, then I'd have to wonder why you're doing that. If the idea is to save money and get the best possible sound for your dollar, then "A vs. F" might matter a lot less than "old vs. new." Just saying...
    It is in fact a matter of cost. I'm not interested in bling, only tone. There's a Gallatin F model on Carter's website, says it's new @ $3,300 (not sure when it was built as I believe Weber hasn't offered that model for a while) or I can order an A model Yellowstone for $1,600 more. Did I mention I am talking about a Mandola rather than a mandolin? Anyways, if the sound coming out is comparable it's an easy choice.

    Cheers.

  19. #14

    Default Re: A vs. F

    As the owner of an Eastman A, I am envious of the F scroll as an anchor for my strap.

  20. #15
    Mando accumulator allenhopkins's Avatar
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    Default Re: A vs. F

    Any differences of A-model vs. F-model, gloss finish vs. matte finish, binding vs. no binding, and other basically non-acoustic features, are insignificant compared to the differences among individual instruments, even those of the same "make and model."

    Each piece of wood is different, subtly or significantly, and therefore instruments made from different pieces of wood are, well, different. While we may talk about the "Gibson sound" or the "Collings sound," based on different construction variables, we still need side-by-side comparison to evaluate the differences between two individual mandolins. (And that leaves aside the other sound variations from string gauges and types, pick weights and composition, etc.)

    Buyers often choose between "A" and "F" based on esthetics, the perception that a lot of pros play F-models, or, honestly, by price; F-models cost more. Weber makes excellent instruments at all their (substantial) price points. There may well be a tonal difference between a mahogany and a maple body that holds across all or most such instruments. Beyond that, individual variations are what counts.

    In a long and sordid career of buying mandolins, I once had the chance to A/B two early 1950's Gibson F-5's; at another point, three brand-new Eastman mandolas, two 615's and an 815. There were clearly discernible individual differences in each case, and I picked the one that suited me better. Hope you get a similar chance to compare the Weber instruments you're considering. I would opine, however, that it's unlikely you'll go wrong, either way.
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    coprolite mandroid's Avatar
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    Smile Re: A vs. F

    Well the lap points on the lower side are useful.. playing seated , reading your music..

    Gallitin * weber can have a bit of quarter round edges
    so a bit more comfortable playing than a sharp binding edge..
    that I got an armrest because of.. ..

    *older mandolins like the A Jr is also unbound edges..



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  22. #17

    Default Re: A vs. F

    I always play standing and I prefer the way the F style hangs on the strap and my arm is not touching the strap.

    I do have a Weber Hyalite I like to take on trips when we are confined and usually sitting to play.

    Comfort when playing is crucial.

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  24. #18
    mandolin slinger Steve Ostrander's Avatar
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    Default Re: A vs. F

    I’d be way more concerned about how they sound than how they look.

  25. #19
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    Default Re: A vs. F

    I have a 2017 Weber Yellowstone F red spruce. it is a great sounding mandolin. I'm sure either of your choices would be great sounding mandolin.

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