Kentucky Tuning Machines

[Scott Salyers]

I recently purchased a new Kentucky KM-756 and I can't find anywhere on the Kentucky/Saga website or the web where it lists the brand name of the tuning machines they use on their mandolins. Does anyone happen to know this information? I have been thinking about upgrading them to a set of Schaller tuning machines but would first like to know what I would be changing. Thanks in advance for any information you can provide.

By the way, I would also appreciate any opinions you might have on my choice of using Schaller tuning machines. I know this will mostly be a matter of personal preference but I do value the opinions of the Cafe members very much.

[Caleb]

My old Eastman 505 (made circa 2006) had Schallers on it and they were the smoothest and most reliable tuners I've ever used. Not sure if I got lucky or if they are all that nice.

[MikeEdgerton]

If you post a picture of the back of the headstock we can probably ID them. I say probably because Saga has been known to use their own tuners on some of their instruments.

[Scott Salyers]

Here is a closeup picture of my tuning machines.

[MikeEdgerton]

Those are Saga's own brand tuning machines. You're looking for worm over tuners. To my knowledge Schaller no longer makes a worm over tuner in their Grand Tune line. If they have I haven't seen them. They made them for years in their old line. I actually have an old set of worm over tuners but I have no idea of their provenance, I got them used for a project years back. Don't bother trying the Grover worm over F style tuners, they turn backwards. Your choice to replace those tuners is to use Gotoh or Rubner or Kluson. Rubner's are great but rarely available, Kluson's may or may not be available, and the Gotoh's are generally available if you know where to look.

The first thing you need to do is to check the post spacing to make sure that is standard. Saga has been known to use some different spacings. Those should be ok but make sure the post spacing center to center is .906 " or 23.01 mm.

[MikeEdgerton]

Everything you always wanted to know about the differences between worm over and worm under tuners can be found on the late Paul Hostetter's gear page. It is here.

[tooday]

I have played a Kentucky KM 756 and KM 505. I thought both had excellent tuners - better than the ones on my Eastman MD-605.

[Eric F.]

Is there a problem with the tuners or do you just have an itch to tinker? I have a KM-272 that also has Saga tuners and they look cheap but they work fine.

[mandroid]

Mike got my set of Schallers .. , their die cast backing plates Allowed button-worm shaft shuffling..

When the builder fitted them , worm Under they turned 'backwards'

I found another set with the gear cut the other way. so they turned 'Normal' in worm under configuration..

And Because of the ability to switch worm-button shafts around, I had a set of normal turning worm over tuners to re sell


Back in the Mechanical age we had a few mechanical visualization questions on the SAT exams..

[Scott Salyers]

Is there a problem with the tuners or do you just have an itch to tinker? I have a KM-272 that also has Saga tuners and they look cheap but they work fine.

Yes, in my opinion there is a problem but of course I'm no expert, as a matter of fact far from it. I am just a beginner. The tuners are very sticky when turning and the mando is constantly having to be tuned. The fine adjustment just isn't there like I think it should be. I can't get the note just right as I am either a little flat or sharp.

[Scott Salyers]

I did find these on the Schaller website: https://schaller.info/en/gt-mandolin...164.71.31&c=31 Can anyone tell me if these are the correct machines for my Kentucky. They look to be non-reverse, worm over.

[Eric F.]

I can't tell you whether the Schallers would just drop right in or if you'd have to do some drilling. You'd have to measure the spacing on your Kentucky and compare.

But if you're interested in trying to work with the ones you have, I've got some ideas.

First, remember that mandolins are finicky creatures. The old joke goes that mandolin players spend half their time tuning and the other half playing out of tune. So, don't expect to put it down overnight and pick it up and have it still be in tune. If it's constantly slipping out of tune while you're playing, though, that's another matter.

Where did you get the mandolin? Did the store do a setup? If so, I'd suggest calling and telling them the problems you're having. I mean, it's a $1,000 instrument, it ought to be playable without spending $200 more on tuners.

If the store did little or no adjustment to the mandolin, try to find someone to do a proper setup. The problem is that most music stores do not have anyone with expertise in mandolins, which are definitely not just little guitars. People on the board might be able to recommend someone if you tell us where you are.

You can also work on the tuners yourself. The late Paul Hostetter's page on tuner maintenance is still up here. It's very helpful. I've found the recommended Tri-Flow oil to be the answer to sticky tuners.

I'm not an expert on setup or all the issues that could be causing your problem, but these are at least a few things to consider.

[MikeEdgerton]

I did find these on the Schaller website: https://schaller.info/en/gt-mandolin...164.71.31&c=31 Can anyone tell me if these are the correct machines for my Kentucky. They look to be non-reverse, worm over.

Those are worm over, and by the cut of the gear they appear to turn the right way. The only problem I see is that they are showing as 23.0 spacing and that may or may not cause you issues. You have to measure your tuners to make sure they aren't a weird spacing. I'm actually happy to see those worm over tuners back in the Schaller line. I don't know who stocks them though.

[Scott Salyers]

Those are worm over, and by the cut of the gear they appear to turn the right way. The only problem I see is that they are showing as 23.0 spacing and that may or may not cause you issues. You have to measure your tuners to make sure they aren't a weird spacing. I'm actually happy to see those worm over tuners back in the Schaller line. I don't know who stocks them though.

I can order them direct from Schaller for $200 which includes the shipping.

[Fretbear]

You should first remove them from the instrument and inspect them thoroughly for smooth operation and lubricate them. Often there can be binding issues with the ferrules or misalignment of the peghead holes. Those issues will not be remedied with new tuners.

[Scott Salyers]

You should first remove them from the instrument and inspect them thoroughly for smooth operation and lubricate them. Often there can be binding issues with the ferrules or misalignment of the peghead holes. Those issues will not be remedied with new tuners.

I am going to to take it to a luthier tomorrow and have it completely setup and looked over.

[mandroid]

there is a link on servicing tuning machines rather than scrapping them, *

your Internet search may find.

(Lubricating and wearing them in) you could do some of that with each tuner
as you remove the strings 1 at a time when replacing them..

I have a mandolin I bought used, with a peg head hole spacing issue .

[anecdote] Seller force Fit Waverly tuners in , Damaging them in the process..

I replaced them with a lower cost set from Stew Mac that was flexible enough to tolerate the variation..

& It's been fine-enough, ever since..

[mandroid]

Looks like the Grand tune is all they make now ... & looks like gears cut both ways https://schaller.info/en/gt-mandolin/

Modern A type are non reverse, , worm Over ..

they still come apart but now you need a spanner to unscrew the bushing, so that's different

[HoGo]

I did find these on the Schaller website: https://schaller.info/en/gt-mandolin...164.71.31&c=31 Can anyone tell me if these are the correct machines for my Kentucky. They look to be non-reverse, worm over.

Once again Schaller introduces confusion into mandolin tuner world...
If you look at both pictures in the linked page you can see two different versions. One is reassembled worm under (theone on headstock) and the other is real worm over - notice the direction of gear cut //// vs. \\\\.

[MikeEdgerton]

Once again Schaller introduces confusion into mandolin tuner world...
If you look at both pictures in the linked page you can see two different versions. One is reassembled worm under (theone on headstock) and the other is real worm over - notice the direction of gear cut //// vs. \\\\.

That's funny, I didn't even look at the small image of the back of the headstock, I just looked at the one in the main image. It will be interesting to see what they actually sell. I was surprised to see these.