Fixing wire loops onto Nylon (fluorocarbon?) strings.

[Pete Doc]

Hello Fellow Mando people.
I have recently acquired a Gold-tone Irish Bouzouki and had it re-strung as a Mandocello.
I originally used D'Addario phosphor-bronze strings (gauges suggested by Gold tone ) but wasn't wild about the timbre (I'm working on the Bach cello suites). I chose to change over to classical guitar strings. Problem; attaching the strings to the tailpiece is a pain.

It occurred to me that fisherfolk attach wire leaders to monofilament lines with metal crimps. I have done a little experimenting but I thought I would ask if anyone else has gone down this path with any success. It seems to me that crimping should be the way to go but the variety of commercially available crimps is bewildering and the smallest aluminium crimps are too bulky (and ugly). I would also like to fit fluorocarbon strings to my Fender Mandolin and have no other option but to fit loop ends somehow.

There might be an element of heresy to what I'm suggesting but just want to find that sound.

Good on you all
Pete

[Ray(T)]

Many, many (many!) years ago - as a child - I decided that I would like to try nylon strings on a guitar with a pressed metal tailpiece (think Dobro). I eventually sellted on tying small dressmakers hooks on the end (this sort of thing - https://www.amazon.co.uk/Siming-Sewi...08532911&psc=1 ) and recall that it worked quite well; although it did little for the sound of the guitar!

[Pete Doc]

Thanks Ray. Know those little beasties well. My mother was a dressmaker.

[poul hansen]

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[multidon]

I once worked on a banjo uke that used nylon strings but had a tailpiece with hooks. My solution was to tie a loop at the end of each, but it needs to be a loop that won’t tighten on itself. The knot I used is called the Perfection Loop. It’s a fishing knit used to attach lures to line and it’s easy to find tying instructions online. Worked like a charm for me.

[Richard500]

Pete, you could make tiny crimps from the kind of small tubing available from modelmaking supplies as well as regular materials suppliers. Also, nylon melts easily and a touch with a soldering iron can make the end slip proof. Brass should be fine. If you use stranded wire for the loops, the crimps might hold more easily.
Alternatively, if you have one handy, you could wire a regular guitar bridge to the tailpiece or make one so that you can tie the nylon on conventionally. This might make it easier to experiment and replace strings.
As usual, theory.

[Pete Doc]

Thanks for the feedback guys. I have gotten the tube you mentioned Richard. The brass seems to be working fine but I may also try aluminium and copper. The softer metals may squish better. Melting a little ball on the end of monofilament is a useful move. Wound strings initially failed when the core pulled out. I tried stripping about a centimetre of the wire wrap off, melting the exposed fibre back to the wire and then applying a drop of superglue to secure the core.
In the long run designing a multi-method tailpiece would be the best solution.
Good on you all
Peter

[addamr]

The perfection loop that Multidon mentioned should do the trick. it is a strong, no slip knot. When tied correctly it is designed so the the loop is straight inline. It works great in Monofilament also. Plenty of how to videos on YouTube.

Adam

[sblock]

I agree with Multidon that your best solution would be to learn to tie a knot that provides slip-free loop in the end of the string. This is suoerior to trying to introduce various metal bits, and besides, there are not parts to get lost, The "Perfection Loop" is one such knot, but an even more venerable solution, known to sailors and mountain climbers alike, is the bowline knot. It even works on slippery monofilament. There are many links online with instructions on tying a bowline, but here's one: https://www.netknots.com/rope_knots/bowline.

[Pete Doc]

Thanks for the Knot info. Two problems for my situation: 1- I didn't want to trust a monofilament loop around a sharp metal hook. 2- On my mandocello the bass strings are .072" wound strings. lots of luck tying a neat bowline in that.
Thanks again. Where there's a will there's a way.

[Jacob]

Bridge beads designed for classical guitar strings? I use one for a low D 7th string. Available from several makers.

[pops1]

Thanks for the Knot info. Two problems for my situation: 1- I didn't want to trust a monofilament loop around a sharp metal hook. 2- On my mandocello the bass strings are .072" wound strings. lots of luck tying a neat bowline in that.
Thanks again. Where there's a will there's a way.

Actually I have tied a bowline in 3/4" rope. It is an easy knot to tie and will tie in anything pretty much.

[ajh]

Actually I have tied a bowline in 3/4" rope. It is an easy knot to tie and will tie in anything pretty much.

Thanks....you just reminded me of my Dad (long gone) when he was teaching me knots. For the bowline......."The rabbit comes out of the hole, runs around the tree and back into the hole". Memory lane today I guess!

[dan in va]

I string a 5 string banjo with Aquila nylon strings (and it sounds wonderful). The tailpiece is metal and made for metal loops, which is hard on nylon strings - thinner strings break easier. There's more than one method that works. I've made a double loop for the TP hook, and I've also tied the end of the string into a ball. It helps to watch for burrs that can cut the string and not to pull too hard on the knot. There are also those little plastic cups that come with some classical guitar strings that hold a knot in the end of the string and protect it from sharp edges.
Your patience will pay off in the end.

[multidon]

A small file could be used to take the sharp edges off the tailpiece hooks. I don’t know about tying a knot in a .072 string, never tried it, but I do know I wouldn’t trust a crimping gadget. Maybe consider a tailpiece change?