Page 2 of 2 FirstFirst 12
Results 26 to 50 of 50

Thread: Ceccherini 10 string mandolin in Belfast, advice needed

  1. #26
    Mando accumulator allenhopkins's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    Rochester NY 14610
    Posts
    16,452

    Default Re: Ceccherini 10 string mandolin in Belfast, advice needed

    One thing I'd like to add, is that we'd be interested to hear how you navigate the triple A and E courses on the Ceccherini. Additional strings to increase volume was a frequent strategy of pre-amplification builders. Aside from the possible issues of keeping three strings in unison tuning, it could pose some challenges to "clean" fretting, especially for those with smaller hands and fingers.

    Hope it gives you years of wonderful music, as well as the satisfaction of keeping a family heirloom tradition alive.
    Allen Hopkins
    Gibsn: '54 F5 3pt F2 A-N Custm K1 m'cello
    Natl Triolian Dobro mando
    Victoria b-back Merrill alumnm b-back
    H-O mandolinetto
    Stradolin Vega banjolin
    Sobell'dola Washburn b-back'dola
    Eastmn: 615'dola 805 m'cello
    Flatiron 3K OM

  2. #27
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Location
    High Peak - UK
    Posts
    3,001

    Default Re: Ceccherini 10 string mandolin in Belfast, advice needed

    I’d be tempted to leave the third strings off.

    John Jorgenson gives the impression that he can play anything! The last time I saw him, he was finishing the concert with his “big number”; which he plays mainly on his E string. Four bars in, he broke it so he simply moved up five frets and carried on. I don’t think anyone else in the audience noticed. I was due to see him again last year - all but a mile down the road. Unfortunately, his flight developed engine trouble, had to turn back and he didn’t make it.

  3. The following members say thank you to Ray(T) for this post:


  4. #28
    Mando-Accumulator Jim Garber's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Location
    Westchester, NY
    Posts
    27,956

    Default Re: Ceccherini 10 string mandolin in Belfast, advice needed

    A few 10 string Ceccherini's have appeared on these forums over the years. They are not too common. I am not sure what they were trying to do. Somewhat more common are 12 string (3 strings per course) mandolins, also called mandriolas. These are not exactly easy to play either. I would also consider as Ray(T) mentions leaving off one each of the first two courses on the Ceccherini, however that will also make the string spacing rather odd, further apart on the two highest pitched courses.

    As far as strings, IMHO there are much better choices than the GHS A240 sets. I usually buy them for bowlbacks I am not sure will take the tension or to find out how they play. They are fine in general but lose their tone faster then some of the better strings. The Ceccherini is a fine instrument and I would think a light gauge Newtone set could work well. If a custom set then perhaps match the gauges of the GHS A240s. My absolute favorite sets for Italian Neapolitan bowlbacks are Dogal Calace RW92b Dolce strings. They truly bring out the true timbre of the mandolin. I am not sure who carries them in the UK. Other brands to try are Optima, Fisoma, Galli and Savarez.
    Jim

    My Stream on Soundcloud
    Facebook
    19th Century Tunes
    Playing lately:
    2018 Campanella A-5 -- 2007 Brentrup A4C -- 1915 Frank Merwin Ashley violin -- Huss & Dalton DS -- 1923 Gibson A2 black snakehead -- '83 Flatiron A5-2 -- 1939 Gibson L-00 -- 1936 Epiphone Deluxe -- 1928 Gibson L-5 -- ca. 1890s Fairbanks Senator Banjo -- ca. 1923 Vega Style M tenor banjo -- ca. 1920 Weymann Style 25 Mandolin-Banjo -- National RM-1

  5. #29
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Nov 2020
    Location
    Belfast, N. Ireland
    Posts
    24

    Default Re: Ceccherini 10 string mandolin in Belfast, advice needed

    Thanks Ray for all the information - not surprisingly my local music shop only sell standard sets of strings. I phoned Newtone and the nice guy there took me through the options (I didn't know about core shape and nickel/phosphor bronze) and, as you say, he was totally unphased about the extra strings.

  6. #30
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Nov 2020
    Location
    Belfast, N. Ireland
    Posts
    24

    Default Re: Ceccherini 10 string mandolin in Belfast, advice needed

    Thanks Allen, I too am curious about playing on the triple courses. My fingers are not big, but neither were my Grandmothers and she played it - so we will see. I am taking it to be looked at next week, as I think the frets do need attention - when I push the strings aside I can see they have cut down into the frets on A and E. And, as a violinist, I am still getting used to tuning 2 strings of each pitch, never mind 3!

  7. The following members say thank you to Belinda Larmour for this post:


  8. #31
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Nov 2020
    Location
    Belfast, N. Ireland
    Posts
    24

    Default Re: Ceccherini 10 string mandolin in Belfast, advice needed

    Thanks Jim for your thoughts. I am thinking of trying to play the 10 strings as it was originally made - to see if I can get to grips with it. Plan B would be going down to the normal 8 strings if I can't manage, but as you say that might make the spacing odd. Great to hear of other brands of strings - for now I have ordered both the GHS and the Newtone - but I know in the future I will be tempted to try some more.......

  9. #32
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Nov 2020
    Location
    Belfast, N. Ireland
    Posts
    24

    Default Re: Ceccherini 10 string mandolin in Belfast, advice needed

    Thanks for that, excellent!

  10. #33
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Nov 2020
    Location
    Belfast, N. Ireland
    Posts
    24

    Default Re: Ceccherini 10 string mandolin in Belfast, advice needed

    Probably good advice Ray, but I will give the third strings a go for a while - just for the experience!
    You are so right about the skill level of players who can cope with the unexpected - but only another musician will even realise what has happened.

  11. #34
    Registered User Martin Jonas's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2003
    Location
    Northop, North Wales
    Posts
    6,203

    Default Re: Ceccherini 10 string mandolin in Belfast, advice needed

    Coming late to this discussion. I have considerable experience with Ceccherini mandolins -- there are two of them in my avatar, and I have bought and sold several more. Wonderful instruments, and well worth bringing up to scratch if it can be done without major structural work. As with all vintage bowlbacks, structural damage can be expensive and possibly uneconomical to repair.

    Some years ago, I bought a 10-string Ceccherini just like yours on Ebay. I decided to restring it as an 8-string -- the extra third string on the A and E is more hassle than it's worth. The advantage is also that the 10-string was built for the extra string tension of those two additional strings, so you have a bit more stability reserve when you go to 8-string. Assuming the instrument is structurally sound, the biggest job (other than clean-up) is likely to be bridge setup and intonation. Ceccherini used a metal insert saddle sitting on a wooden recess in the bridge. That makes adjusting action fairly simple but you need to know what you're doing. Also, several of the Ceccherinis I have had needed an adjustment to move the nut about 2 mm closer to the first fret to correct an overly bright intonation on the lower frets. Again, Ceccherini used a rather unusual metal nut design which your luthier would neet to understand in order to work on it.

    As for strings, I use Fisoma Consort strings, which need to be ordered from Germany (I don't think there is a UK distributor). Dogal Calace dolce should work fine as well, but again I don't think there is a UK distributor. If you want to try others, stick with light gauges and you should be fine.

    If you don't have a luthier nearby who can do the work, maybe speak to John Maddock at Tavistock who has worked on several Ceccherinis. His Facebook page is here:

    https://www.facebook.com/johnmaddockinstruments/

    But congratulations on the Ceccherini: they are really fine instruments. Here is a recent video of me, playing a Baroque trio sonata on it. This is with Fisoma Consort strings.

    Martin

  12. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Martin Jonas For This Useful Post:


  13. #35
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Nov 2020
    Location
    Belfast, N. Ireland
    Posts
    24

    Default Re: Ceccherini 10 string mandolin in Belfast, advice needed

    Thank you Martin - I am so glad to hear that these are well-regarded instruments - you obviously know a great deal about Ceccherini mandolins. I really enjoyed hearing and seeing you play one. I need to absorb all that information about the bridge and nut and intonation. It is good to hear about John Maddock having worked on Ceccherini, I was thinking about getting it fixed locally, to avoid sending it away. The poor thing was given to me in a plastic bag (oh dear) and, having survived that, I don't want to take any more chances, but it needs to be worked on by the right person. We have a terrific violin maker here and good people for guitars, but bowlback mandolins are maybe a bit different. I am so looking forward to getting it into good playing condition.

  14. The following members say thank you to Belinda Larmour for this post:


  15. #36
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Location
    High Peak - UK
    Posts
    3,001

    Default Re: Ceccherini 10 string mandolin in Belfast, advice needed

    Quote Originally Posted by Belinda Larmour View Post
    Thanks Ray for all the information - not surprisingly my local music shop only sell standard sets of strings. I phoned Newtone and the nice guy there took me through the options (I didn't know about core shape and nickel/phosphor bronze) and, as you say, he was totally unphased about the extra strings.
    That would be Neil Silverman. Most wound strings nowadays are made with hexagonal cores but ones with round cores can sound better (more mellow). The winding on hex, cored strings however grips the core better and prevents the loose end from unwinding; which could be a problem if you either cut the strings to length before putting them on (which most people don’t do) or if you end up taking them off and putting them back on for any reason - e.g. playing around with set-up. Most people won’t notice any difference in sound so it’s largely a matter of semantics and not something you need to be overly concerned with. Just make sure you use light ones!

  16. #37
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Nov 2020
    Location
    Belfast, N. Ireland
    Posts
    24

    Default Re: Ceccherini 10 string mandolin in Belfast, advice needed

    Yes, it was Neil, and the strings arrived from him really quickly - lightest possible set. Sorry for delay in replying, I have been working and only just saw your post this morning.

  17. #38
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Location
    High Peak - UK
    Posts
    3,001

    Default Re: Ceccherini 10 string mandolin in Belfast, advice needed

    Working? That brings back dim and distant memories! Let us know how you get on.

  18. The following members say thank you to Ray(T) for this post:


  19. #39
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Nov 2020
    Location
    Belfast, N. Ireland
    Posts
    24

    Default Re: Ceccherini 10 string mandolin in Belfast, advice needed

    Yes, work is grand, though a bit tiring! I am going to send the mandolin over to John Maddock, as suggested by Martin - really keen to get it sorted out properly. Then I just have to get used to playing it, as I know it will be very different from the Eastman I am playing now.

  20. #40
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Nov 2020
    Location
    Belfast, N. Ireland
    Posts
    24

    Default Re: Ceccherini 10 string mandolin in Belfast, advice needed

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	IMG_3822.JPG 
Views:	17 
Size:	951.3 KB 
ID:	190764
    My Grandmother's mandolin arrived back yesterday from John Maddock - it looks and sounds so much better! I am thrilled to be able to play it now. Thanks to Martin Jonas for recommending John. I am finding the triple courses on E and A strings not a problem to play, though a bit fiddly to tune. They do make a strong loud sound, but I also like the effect of the three strings when playing quietly. Needless to say, it will take me a while to get really used to playing this instrument, but so far I am loving it.

  21. The following members say thank you to Belinda Larmour for this post:

    Ray(T) 

  22. #41

    Default Re: Ceccherini 10 string mandolin in Belfast, advice needed

    Well, that's great news. All's well that ends well! In fact, it's just the end of the beginning but let's hope you enjoy the journey!

  23. The following members say thank you to NickR for this post:


  24. #42
    Mando-Accumulator Jim Garber's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Location
    Westchester, NY
    Posts
    27,956

    Default Re: Ceccherini 10 string mandolin in Belfast, advice needed

    Wonderful news, Belinda. I just wish that John lived closer to me or the cost to ship to him would not be so prohibitive. I would have a few things to send to him other wise. Sad to say, that my wife was taking a workshop in John's area of England earlier this year and over the summer I was going to meet her and would have gotten to meet and hang with John though, as you can imagine, all out plans were destroyed with the pandemic. Oh, well.
    Jim

    My Stream on Soundcloud
    Facebook
    19th Century Tunes
    Playing lately:
    2018 Campanella A-5 -- 2007 Brentrup A4C -- 1915 Frank Merwin Ashley violin -- Huss & Dalton DS -- 1923 Gibson A2 black snakehead -- '83 Flatiron A5-2 -- 1939 Gibson L-00 -- 1936 Epiphone Deluxe -- 1928 Gibson L-5 -- ca. 1890s Fairbanks Senator Banjo -- ca. 1923 Vega Style M tenor banjo -- ca. 1920 Weymann Style 25 Mandolin-Banjo -- National RM-1

  25. #43
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Nov 2020
    Location
    Belfast, N. Ireland
    Posts
    24

    Default Re: Ceccherini 10 string mandolin in Belfast, advice needed

    Thanks Jim, it has certainly been a tough year. The best thing to happen in 2020 for me is taking up the mandolin - a friend and fellow violinist had become totally addicted to playing mandolin and persuaded me to get an Eastman, which arrived in the summer. He has been teaching me and it's a whole new world of technique and repertoire - composers I had never heard of, and working with a metronome to build up that tremolo....
    Then a chance remark in a WhatsApp group chat resulted in my sister saying she had my Grandmother's mandolin hanging on her wall and I could have it! Great when things come together, and lovely to find Mandolin Cafe - I wouldn't have known what to do with the instrument without you all helping.

  26. The following members say thank you to Belinda Larmour for this post:


  27. #44
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Sep 2002
    Location
    Aberdeen, Scotland
    Posts
    562

    Default Re: Ceccherini 10 string mandolin in Belfast, advice needed

    Greetings from snowy Scotland.

    What a great thread this has been to read .

    Belinda, how lovely that your mandolin arrived back today!

    Nick mentioned the Jack Tottle book.
    I still have my dog-eared copy of his Bluegrass Mandolin, bought about 1975 or 76., missing its front cover now and the floppy vinyl disk never survived even the first year.
    I don't even play bluegrass really but , me being a self-taught player, that book started a thousand journeys.
    It's still the best instruction book of its type, IMO.
    Bren

  28. #45
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Nov 2020
    Location
    Belfast, N. Ireland
    Posts
    24

    Default Re: Ceccherini 10 string mandolin in Belfast, advice needed

    Thanks Bren, lovely to think of you reading the thread in Aberdeen - I was there once in the late 1970’s with the Edinburgh University Orchestra. Here in Belfast it’s certainly cold, but no snow. Merry Christmas

  29. #46
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Location
    High Peak - UK
    Posts
    3,001

    Default Re: Ceccherini 10 string mandolin in Belfast, advice needed

    We had snow in the Peak District this afternoon but it’s all gone now.

  30. The following members say thank you to Ray(T) for this post:


  31. #47
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Nov 2020
    Location
    Belfast, N. Ireland
    Posts
    24

    Default Re: Ceccherini 10 string mandolin in Belfast, advice needed

    John Maddock has just posted a comparison of his 8 string Ceccherini and my 10 string Ceccherini on YouTube- the channel is tavymusic. I am very pleased to hear my mandolin played and compare it with the 8 string by the same maker. Great idea, many thanks to John - hope it’s ok for me to refer to it here, and sorry I don’t know how to make a link directly to the video.

  32. #48

    Default Re: Ceccherini 10 string mandolin in Belfast, advice needed


  33. The following members say thank you to NickR for this post:


  34. #49
    Registered User Tavy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    Tavistock UK
    Posts
    4,067

    Default Re: Ceccherini 10 string mandolin in Belfast, advice needed

    Quote Originally Posted by Belinda Larmour View Post
    John Maddock has just posted a comparison of his 8 string Ceccherini and my 10 string Ceccherini on YouTube- the channel is tavymusic. I am very pleased to hear my mandolin played and compare it with the 8 string by the same maker. Great idea, many thanks to John - hope itís ok for me to refer to it here, and sorry I donít know how to make a link directly to the video.
    You're too quick Belinda: I was still waiting for it to upload!

    Here we go:



    Also a quick photo comparison of the two instruments:

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	small-DSCF7018.JPG 
Views:	8 
Size:	264.7 KB 
ID:	190842Click image for larger version. 

Name:	small-DSCF7019.JPG 
Views:	10 
Size:	497.1 KB 
ID:	190841Click image for larger version. 

Name:	small-DSCF7020.JPG 
Views:	9 
Size:	387.8 KB 
ID:	190840

    Belinda's got a nice instrument there I would say!

  35. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Tavy For This Useful Post:


  36. #50
    Full Grown and Cussin' brunello97's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Ann Arbor/Austin
    Posts
    5,430

    Default Re: Ceccherini 10 string mandolin in Belfast, advice needed

    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Garber View Post
    ..... or the cost to ship to him would not be so prohibitive.....
    Maybe we could pitch in and ship John over here for awhile? We could load him down with work. (And beer, maybe?)

    Mick
    Ever tried, ever failed? No matter. Try again, fail again. Fail better.--Samuel Beckett
    ______________________

    '05 Cuisinart Toaster
    '93 Chuck Taylor lowtops
    '12 Stetson Open Road
    '06 Bialetti expresso maker
    '14 Irish Linen Ramon Puig

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •