Question for UK Members re. BREXIT

[mandrian]

Hi,

I was wondering whether anyone knows definitively what happens when we finally leave the EEC on January 1st in the two scenarios below.

1. I buy stuff from the EEC that I cannot buy in the UK. The two examples that spring to mind are mandolin straps from Italy and strings from Germany. Will from January onwards I have to pay substantially more to cover VAT and import duties and administration fee like I do today when buying in anything from the US. This typically hikes the price up by 30%.

2. If I sell a mandolin privately to someone in the EEC would they similarly have to pay VAT and import duties, thus hiking up the price and largely making sales unlikely?

I’m just trying to confirm that my thinking is correct on this so that I can do some transactions now if necessary.

Regards,

[poul hansen]

1.yes
2. yes

Provided the Brexit is a "nodeal"

[mandrian]

Hi,

I believe that VAT will be payable whether there is a deal or not? The import duties element will depend on what the specific deal we have stipulates.

Anybody with specific expertise actually know for sure?


Regards,

[Simon DS]

Ha, ha, and this is where it begins, all very reasonable, intelligent and interesting questions about economics and politics.
And then someone mentions over weight ducks, and garlic and strange desserts and kids who say thank you too much, and then there's hurtful words about who spends more time in the shower and then there’s a full blown trade war or worse.

What happened to the joke thread? What’s up with guys?!

[Anglocelt]

It will take longer, be more complicated and cost you more than at present. You will also need a time machine as the EEC has not existed since 1993!

[Isaac Casas]

Hi,

1. I buy stuff from the EEC that I cannot buy in the UK. The two examples that spring to mind are mandolin straps from Italy and strings from Germany.

Regards,

I don't want to go off topic, but where do you buy your straps in Italy?

[mandrian]

Hi,

Cinghialetto as advertised on the Cafe Classifieds. Excellent braided straps you cannot get in UK.

Regards,

[John Kelly]

I am Scottish and did not vote for Brexit, so don't blame me!

[MikeEdgerton]

If you want to answer the original question posted by the OP and you actually have some experience that will help them feel free to do so. If you're desire is to interject what you think is political humor or how you voted on anything please take a minute and read the Posting Guidelines.

[kookaburra]

I am Scottish and did not vote for Brexit, so don't blame me!

Heck, they didn’t even ask me!

Oh wait...I’m a Yank, never mind!

[Beanzy]

We left the EU last year, this year is just rolling things over & seeing if we can cobble something together to maintain any fluidity to the transactions.
Duties & fees will be payable now unless there is some agreement on a permitted threshold below which they do not apply.

So the typical £8 admin fee to the Post office on top of your orders is possibly here to stay for purchases from the EU.
We will also have to find some way to declare our products compliant with EU standards if being sold into the European single market countries.
If a trade deal is announced we may get some allowances, but there is scant information on the small scale stuff.

We may want to organise pool purchases for our hard to find stuff to spread the costs & enable larger volumes.
Would the UK groups on here be possible for that kind of cooperative endeavour?

In short yes you will have the admin and import fees, which will depend on what the category of equipment is. Plus VAT on the total value of product+duty+shipping.
There will also be issues with fees payable when travelling with your own instruments, possibly necessitating carnets to be raised.

Really we can just wait until things kick in & then the scale of the complexity will be more obvious.
My personal approach is to have spares now & not plan any large purchases or travel with my instruments until the second 1/2 of next year at the earliest, by which time things will be clearer. I was hoping to do the Aonzo Summer school next year but I'll wait until '22 for that rather than risk having to add the cost of a carnet or the faff of reclaiming a bond on top of the costs. I'm bbasically battening down the hatches for buying & travel with instruments in '21 then seeing how it falls out for '22.

[Ray(T)]

Most people buy, for example, strings imported into the UK from the USA. Whether you import them yourself or the wholesaler/retailer imports them for you it’s pretty much the same - the price you pay includes the rates of import duty and VAT imposed by the government (if HMRC don’t notice your personal import, good luck to you). I would imagine that things will become much the same on stuff you might order from the EU.

Stuff bought from the UK in the EU will be subject to whatever taxes and duty the EU politicians decide to impose but, personally, I can’t think of that many things I’ve purchased from the EU so I don’t think it’ll make that much difference to me.

[Bren]

In my work, I move things in and out of EU all the time.
Been doing it for 20+ years.

E.g from our facility in Ireland, by truck through UK and round to Norway, which is not in the EU but frictionless, and even to Switzerland (fairly similar to Norway) and Albania (capricious officialdom can hold things up for weeks)
Or just to Paris, Heathrow, Luxembourg etc to catch international flights.
Bringing stuff in from USA, Asia , Australia etc.

Actually sometimes we have issues just going from Ireland to Italy or France, although both are EU, they have their own ways.

This involves dealing with freight forwarders and customs issues all the time and they, like everyone else in my business, are waiting to see what happens in practice. All else is speculative.

We're all sure that businesses will strive and lobby towards solutions ASAP but when you're dealing with bureaucrats, they don't usually have the same sense of urgency.

So like Eoin said, deal with it once the issues and bottlenecks become apparent. With the best will in the world, you can't work all these things out beforehand. You reach a point of diminishing returns with discussions (some would say we reached it years ago) and just have to make a start on things and work through issues as they arise.

I've also bought a strap from Cinghialetto (Massimo Gatti), although the best ones ever I've tried are kangaroo leather from David Hines in Australia, retired farmer and sheepdog trainer and b*njo player who also makes dog leads. Paul Duff and Stephen Gilchrist usually ship mandolins with his straps.

[Bren]

As far as mandrian's questions go - you would pay VAT anyway.
Normally quoted in price but that might change so you'd have to be prepared to add the 20%.

How much duty you pay on imports to the UK is entirely up to the UK. They could drop it completely but most likely they would use it as a bargaining chip first.

At the moment duty is not payable on items under £135, which would get you at least 4 straps going by the price I paid previously. Then it goes up to 2.5% and possibly 4%. This plus the much bigger VAT component generally levels out the total cost of an instrument imported from USA or Australia to the much higher prices quoted in UK and EU anyway.

Believe me, I've looked into it! The only cheap way to import an American mandolin is to hand carry it if you were traveling anyway.

[Bertram Henze]

There was a moment when I considered buying what I could from Roger Bucknall while it was easy.
But in the end I decided that I would not let my financial timing be controlled by a PM who cannot afford a comb.

[Mike Floorstand]

I've bought stuff from Thomann (Germany) quite often, it arrives promptly as if it had been posted from the UK and with no extra charges.

I once bought something from Switzerland (not in the EU), they deducted their VAT (7.5%) from the advertised price, but on arrival in the UK it had UK VAT (20%) added. There were no other customs/duties added, presumably because of the "frictionless" trade agreement between EU and Switzerland, but Parcelforce added a £12 "handling charge". It took 3 weeks to arrive.

So I'd guess once the Brexit transition period ends this year, buying stuff from Italy will be similar to my Swiss experience, but possibly with additional customs duties if there is no UK-EU trade deal.

[mandrian]

Hi,

Thanks. I finished up stocking up on my Thomastik strings from Thomann in Germany. I always buy three sets anyway so that it’s free shipping and at £33 a set delivered I’ve never found a better price, so I’m happy.

Regards,

[Dave Hanson]

I am Scottish and did not vote for Brexit, so don't blame me!

I'm English and I voted against it.

Dave H

[Simon DS]

Simply in the interest of mutual, amicable understanding, no offense intended (on either side):

Re: Question for UK members re. BREXIT
Re: Question for US members re. SECESSION.

[mandrian]

Hi,

I would be grateful if the moderator could close the thread. I had raised the questions in the original post because they were of genuine interest to me, but others seem intent on derailing it.

Regards,

[MikeEdgerton]

Hi,

I would be grateful if the moderator could close the thread. I had raised the questions in the original post because they were of genuine interest to me, but others seem intent on derailing it.

Regards,

Done.