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Thread: Washburn (Regal) Model 2427 Two-Point Flatback

  1. #1

    Default Washburn (Regal) Model 2427 Two-Point Flatback

    Hi folks. I've been lurking in your lovely forum for some time now and finally thought I should hop in with a question I've hit a wall on.

    I've recently acquired a beautiful (IMO) old Washburn 1915 flatback mandolin and I was hoping someone might be able to help me narrow down the year, and any other details on the model. The talented and generous Jake Wildwood did the repair and setup work on it and you can see the details and images here: https://jakewildwood.blogspot.com/20...tyle-2427.html

    The label claims Model 2427 and the serial number is 23991. I've been perusing the Pre-War Washburn book, but there's no mention of this model, nor accounting for a two-point 1915 with the finer touches seen here, like the inlay in the peghead and the relatively fancy dots and binding. Generally, it seems to fall in the 1917 -1922 date range (please correct me if I'm wrong), but if anyone has any insight on whether these were maybe a more limited run that didn't make it into catalogs or such, I'd be really curious to know. I've found one other like it on the 'net, but that listing offers no more information than I already have. (Alas, that sold listing seems to have come down recently as it was rather old and the Internet Archive didn't capture it either).

    Anyway, I'm thrilled to have it. I think it sounds and looks lovely. I'm tickled by the "beauty mark" on the bass side of the sound hole, and I'm enjoying it a ton. It feels like a big tonal step up from the cheap A-style I'd been working on. (Rosewood, am I right?)

    P.S. I would also be keen to hear any hard case suggestions. Period/vintage would be nice, but the main priority is protection better than its current gig bag can provide. I'm just nervous about springing for a case that's not a good physical fit for it in terms of depth or the various width measurements.

    Thanks in advance!

  2. #2

    Default Re: Washburn (Regal) Model 2427 Two-Point Flatback

    I put up a comment on Jake's assessment- these were sold by Regal as the Superior from 1928 to 1932 and they were for sale also according to Bob Carlin's Regal book under the Washburn brand from1917 to 1925. I don't think it would be easy to fine tune that date any more. If it has a paper sound hole label that might help date it more closely. The labels are shown in the Washburn book which plenty of people here- myself included own and the author Hubert Pleijsier is a member of this forum but you mention the book in your post. I bought a nice perfectly fitting circa 1920 case for a mandolin made by Regal that size on eBay but it was not a two point. However, as a two point you may run into problems in terms of the shape- so be careful and check measurements.

  3. #3

    Default Re: Washburn (Regal) Model 2427 Two-Point Flatback

    Quote Originally Posted by NickR View Post
    I put up a comment on Jake's assessment- these were sold by Regal as the Superior from 1928 to 1932 and they were for sale also according to Bob Carlin's Regal book under the Washburn brand from1917 to 1925. I don't think it would be easy to fine tune that date any more. If it has a paper sound hole label that might help date it more closely. The labels are shown in the Washburn book which plenty of people here- myself included own and the author Hubert Pleijsier is a member of this forum but you mention the book in your post. I bought a nice perfectly fitting circa 1920 case for a mandolin made by Regal that size on eBay but it was not a two point. However, as a two point you may run into problems in terms of the shape- so be careful and check measurements.
    Thanks for your response, Nick. I had seen your comment, but didn't have the Washburn book in hand to do any follow-up reading/asking at the time. (I'm borrowing from a university music library at the moment). This instrument has the Washburn "Model 1915" label, dating 1915-1922 in the book. I don't see any reference to a "Superior" model in the Washburn book; is it described in the Regal book?

    I'll keep my eyes peeled for cases and keep in mind your point regarding measuring for the body points. Thanks!

  4. #4
    Full Grown and Cussin' brunello97's Avatar
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    Default Re: Washburn (Regal) Model 2427 Two-Point Flatback

    I owned one of these for awhile some time ago...Regal labeled.
    Someone gave me beaucoup dinero for it likely because of a two-point fetish.
    I'm pretty sure it was mahogany or maybe birch back.

    Likely I wouldn't have parted with it if it were rosewood / spruce combo, which I have a fetish for.
    I just love the sound they produce together.
    Yours looks like rosewood to me. Or an awfully convincing faux job.

    Those kinds of back cracks look pretty familiar of wide rosewood boards.

    I like the headstock detail and classic Washburn tailpiece cover.

    Fair play to you!

    Thanks for sharing.

    Mick
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  6. #5

    Default Re: Washburn (Regal) Model 2427 Two-Point Flatback

    The Superior was the Regal branded in the main and was sold as a Regal in those years- 1928-32. Often the branding took the form of the design on the tuner coverplate- whereas yours actually states Washburn. Indeed, this info is in the Regal book which mentions the years when they were sold as Washburn branded instruments- 1917 to 1925. As my comment on Jake's article mentions, the one I saw on eBay seemed to be somewhat in between the two shown in Bob Carlin's book and I assume that the third party vendor wanted a bit more bling on the less expensive model to assist in selling it as a runaway bargain. It seems you have narrowed it down to a five year period now which is probably as good as you will get. Here is that old Regal two point that was on eBay. The seller did not take questions, so I was not able to tell him it was not a Gibson or a Vega! You will notice it has an old soft case- not a good hard one that had a snug fit. https://www.ebay.com/itm/Vintage-Veg...p2047675.l2557

  7. #6

    Default Re: Washburn (Regal) Model 2427 Two-Point Flatback

    Mick-
    Thanks! It is rosewood! I was half expecting it to be laminate, maybe, as I understand Washburn/Regal did that, but it doesn't seem to be. The back cracks had me a little worried, but it seems as though it's not unusual in this build (maybe due to the brace structure?).

    Speaking from a totally and obviously unbiased point of view, both of the fetishes you mention are extremely normal and justified. To be honest, I had passed on some really swell flat-backs this last year just because I knew I wouldn't be truly happy with mahogany. (Not that mahogany doesn't make for lovely sound! I just really feel that rosewood tone).

  8. #7

    Default Re: Washburn (Regal) Model 2427 Two-Point Flatback

    Nick-
    Thanks for the info! I don't suppose I was really expecting to get better than a 2-5 year spread. Not having seen this particular model though, I was just hoping for any additional information that might be out there. I'll try to track down a copy of that Regal book to scratch my nerdy historical-curiosity itch.

    It may be my inexperience speaking, but I don't see a lot of similarities between the eBay item and the Style 2427. They have the same checkered purfling (am I using that term right?), but everything else seems pretty different: the points and overall curvature are fairly differently shaped, the fingerboard dots and dot patterns, the headstock shape, the pickguard shape, etc. At a glance, the ebay mandolin really strikes me as a Vega.

    Again, I certainly don't claim any credentials or particular experience, so I would truly be interested in better understanding your assessment. I hope I don't seem argumentative; I'm always keen to expand my knowledge base.

  9. #8

    Default Re: Washburn (Regal) Model 2427 Two-Point Flatback

    If you get the Regal book, you can see catalogue illustrations of two Regal Superior mandolins. This one sold on eBay has the heart shaped cut out in the headstock which Bob Carlin mentions appears on the early examples. It is definitely a Regal made mandolin not a Vega.

  10. #9
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    Default Re: Washburn (Regal) Model 2427 Two-Point Flatback

    Not sure of the measurements on yours but I bought a guardian cg 035 tweed case

  11. #10
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    Default Re: Washburn (Regal) Model 2427 Two-Point Flatback

    Hit the wrong spot on keyboard, anyway, I bought the guardian case mentioned above for my gibson a5 two point and it fits great, really nice case and does not break the bank.

  12. #11

    Default Re: Washburn (Regal) Model 2427 Two-Point Flatback

    In my comment at Jake Wildwood's article regarding your mandolin, I mentioned that the eBay mandolin appears to be somewhere between the two versions shown in Bob Carlin's Regal book. The motif on the tuner cover plate is the same as on my Regal- which is not a two point but has the inlays, rosewood and vine inlays on the pickguard and this is for a third party seller- but I am not sure which one- as there is no brand inlay in the headstock. If the eBay mandolin had been a Vega as it was suggested, there would have been more than one bidder and it would have gone for over $400 and it was unsold for quite a while unless the seller was very unlucky and nobody saw it! I do not pretend to know much about Vega mandolins but my knowledge is that at this time- circa 1920, flat back Vega mandolins were teardrop shaped while the two point mandolins were cylinder back. I may be wrong but that is my understanding. If you search using the criteria below, you will see about 10 photos of the most Ritzy Regal Superior mandolin which leaves no room for further adornment while staying on the sane side of common sense frills! "Regal Style 2221 Superior Mandolin Photos"

  13. #12

    Default Re: Washburn (Regal) Model 2427 Two-Point Flatback

    (Oops, I fell off the internet for a month! I probably didn't miss anything, right?). Sorry for the delay in my response!

    Steve, thanks for the recommendation! I'll look into the Guardian case's measurements.

    Nick, I will look forward to getting my hands on that Regal book, for sure. I won't speculate as to why that mandolin on eBay went unsold for so long... the market is often mysterious to me as I haven't spent quite enough time/energy on unraveling it. I've seen that fancy-pants Regal 2221 online many months ago! Quite a looker. I understand the full range of Regal's nuanced production quality wasn't fully understood or documented until somewhat recently, so it's especially fun to see examples like that.

  14. #13

    Default Re: Washburn (Regal) Model 2427 Two-Point Flatback

    Lovely sound and playing. Genuine tone and volume. A real find I reckon,

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  16. #14
    Mando accumulator allenhopkins's Avatar
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    Default Re: Washburn (Regal) Model 2427 Two-Point Flatback

    Quote Originally Posted by brunello97 View Post
    ...beaucoup dinero...
    French and Spanish! Quite the polymath, eh?
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