Mandocello "strum along" chords

[Bernie Daniel]

I was looking around on my hard drive for some other document today and I came across this old project that I did 12 years ago.

I recall that I was interested at the time in experimenting with the mandocello as a voice accompaniment tool (e.g., like a guitar) and I wanted some simple, first position (mostly), 2 and 3 finger formations for some common chords that also had open strings for more sustain. These are what I came up with -- none of them are new I suppose. Some were sourced from "The Mandocello Chord Bible by Tobe Richards and some I made up myself. I cleaned it up a bit and attached it -- for a few chords there are options presented.

Anyway they maybe of no value at all to anyone -- or alternatively someone might find them a handy reference. I feel confident that others can come up with some better options and if so it would be interesting to see the additional chord formations.

One thing about singing along with a mandocello -- be prepared to sing loud because it puts out a lot more volume than a guitar.

[Jim Imhoff]

Thank you for this work, Bernie: I am a singer and mandocello player so this is quite useful. I am also hosting a mandocello session at the Classical Mandolin Society convention in a few weeks (online, virtual) and if it's OK with you I will add this item to my presentation.
I found that 3-string barre chords work, especially higher up on the neck where the spread is not so great, but your use of open strings really lets the bass instrument shine. Also, a light arpeggio sometimes works better than a strum, because the very low notes can be a bit muddy when all played at once.
Thanks again!

[meow-n-dolin]

"Anyway they maybe of no value at all to anyone -- or alternatively someone might find them a handy reference. I feel confident that others can come up with some better options and if so it would be interesting to see the additional chord formations."

I picked up the chord bible a while back. An excellent resource, as is your chart.

Thanks!

[tmsweeney]

The one form I love is the 0011 (or 2233 and so on) minor 7th chords, it really speaks on the mandocello, the 0002 (or 2224) minor 9th is very nice as well

though challenging on the first few frets on the mandocello the 4253 minor seventh is "unique" but works nicely with the 4254 major 7th

I have the Harvey Reid Big Book of Mandocello Chords, he also has some chord reference for partial capos.

[Bernie Daniel]

Thank you for this work, Bernie: I am a singer and mandocello player so this is quite useful. I am also hosting a mandocello session at the Classical Mandolin Society convention in a few weeks (online, virtual) and if it's OK with you I will add this item to my presentation.
I found that 3-string barre chords work, especially higher up on the neck where the spread is not so great, but your use of open strings really lets the bass instrument shine. Also, a light arpeggio sometimes works better than a strum, because the very low notes can be a bit muddy when all played at once.
Thanks again!

Sure if it is useful then add it to your presentation. If anyone has some further suggestions for the list please let me know. Thanks!

[wreded]

Bernie, ya got me to thinking. I've done pretty much the same thing with a chord chart for M'cello and M'dola except I incorporated the shapes for Mando as well. The black labels at the top of each chord are the mando chords while the red labels are for M'cello and M'dola.
It's time for me to share so here it is.

[August Watters]

Although some mandolin chord fingers transpose well to mandocello, I think some do not work well, because they are either 1) so low that they sound muddy, or 2) too difficult to play. In general, I think the three-note open position chords are very playable on the top three courses, but less so down low.

I put together this chart of basic chords awhile back for a student, and I hope you will find it useful. Instead of taking a thesaurus-like approach, I have arranged them in simple I-IV-ii-V progressions, in several keys. Enjoy!

[Jim Imhoff]

I like charts that put chords (or any musical concept) in context; I have a chord book that has 2 pages of "C chords" (maj, min, dim....) then two pages of "C# chords" and so on. There is something inherently unmusical about that, like telling children they need the major scale or circle of 5ths before they sing a song. August's set of progressions in different keys is also practical because the likely finger movements involved (from one chord to the next) are suggested at a glance. And because this thread is about song accompaniment, the standard I vi IV V I (or I IV vi V I) is a likely progression.
I will also repeat what I said in an earlier post--even though the thread is "strum along" the heavy strings and low pitch work better in arpeggios. I have used my mandocello performing Leonard Cohen's Halleluia and Bob Dylan's Queen Jane; the lighter arpeggio also balanced better with the voice than 3 or 4 strings at once.

[wreded]

August, thanks for that.
I just put out what works for me, ymmv. I (used to) play in church alot and found that the flat and sharps were the chords I need most frequently. So, this is what I came up with for me.

[Bernie Daniel]

Although some mandolin chord fingers transpose well to mandocello, I think some do not work well, because they are either 1) so low that they sound muddy, or 2) too difficult to play. In general, I think the three-note open position chords are very playable on the top three courses, but less so down low.

I put together this chart of basic chords awhile back for a student, and I hope you will find it useful. Instead of taking a thesaurus-like approach, I have arranged them in simple I-IV-ii-V progressions, in several keys. Enjoy!

Thanks a lot August! I have a lot of busy work to do this morning then I'm going to play around with your chart. I noticed on your F-chord that you have decided to deaden or not play the open C-course. The C is the V note but I imagine you are doing that because to your ear it sounds better with just AFC rather than CAFC?

I was trying to print your chart out last night but the printer stopped -- out of ink. Thanks to technology! Printers used to just keep on printing getting fainter and fainter. Now a microchip says "ink is too low" and it stops half way through a page. Now that is progress!

[Bernie Daniel]

Bernie, ya got me to thinking. I've done pretty much the same thing with a chord chart for M'cello and M'dola except I incorporated the shapes for Mando as well. The black labels at the top of each chord are the mando chords while the red labels are for M'cello and M'dola.
It's time for me to share so here it is.

Thanks so much! I can't wait to play around with your chart on both the mandola and mandocello!

[Charlieshafer]

I also have the big book of 'cello chords, and wreded's one-page is a very nice quick-reference addition. I, however, do hit a lot of open low notes, especially the open C whenever possible, and hit 'em hard, as that's what wakes people up and makes them realize it's not a weird guitar. The 'cello is not for every tune, so when it is appropriate, I really like to use the characteristics that make it stand out. Let the guitar players sound normal.

[Bernie Daniel]

I also have the big book of 'cello chords, and wreded's one-page is a very nice quick-reference addition. I, however, do hit a lot of open low notes, especially the open C whenever possible, and hit 'em hard, as that's what wakes people up and makes them realize it's not a weird guitar. The 'cello is not for every tune, so when it is appropriate, I really like to use the characteristics that make it stand out. Let the guitar players sound normal.

I like simple also but it seems that the are some limits on what you get away with on the mandocello?

For example if you play 0230 for C on the mandolin it sounds to my ear like a nice full chord -- which it is. Likewise, if you play an 0230 F chord on the mandola -- it sounds Ok but not as satisfying as the same formation on the mandolin?

Going further, playing the 0230 C-chord on the octave mandolin sounds to my ear at least nearly as satisfying as on the mandolin -- and maybe a little better sounding than the higher pitched mandola.

But playing a 0230 F-chord on the mandocello is not a pleasing sound to me.

I think it has something to do with ability of the human ear (different frequency perceptions) to process the tones and hear the chord?

I found the statement "the mandocello is not for every tune" interesting. I think I agree with that but what did you mean specifically?

[wreded]

I've always kinda operated on the idea that if something goes through my brain by typing or drawing it's more likely to stick and be useful when I need it. When I was learning guitar many (many!) years ago I drew up chord charts and made my own chord dictionary. I've used the same sort of approach to M'cello, M'dola, and mandolin chords. If I can get them to stick in my brain then they're there when I need them.
Doesn't work for everyone, but it does (sorta) work for me.
Enjoy it!

[Lord of the Badgers]

I like simple also but it seems that the are some limits on what you get away with on the mandocello?

For example if you play 0230 for C on the mandolin it sounds to my ear like a nice full chord -- which it is. Likewise, if you play an 0230 F chord on the mandola -- it sounds Ok but not as satisfying as the same formation on the mandolin?

Going further, playing the 0230 C-chord on the octave mandolin sounds to my ear at least nearly as satisfying as on the mandolin -- and maybe a little better sounding than the higher pitched mandola.

But playing a 0230 F-chord on the mandocello is not a pleasing sound to me.

I think it has something to do with ability of the human ear (different frequency perceptions) to process the tones and hear the chord?

I found the statement "the mandocello is not for every tune" interesting. I think I agree with that but what did you mean specifically?

In a way you may have hit it on the head as to why I never wanted a Mandocello. I even struggled with OM (sacrificing my beautiful Paul Shippey OM recently since I just didn't play it) for the same sort of reason. Something about double strings and 'too low' for me (but then think of Sarah Jarosz and her Brock...ah well!).... ah I can't put my finger on it. Paradoxically I love my bouzouki and that's unison strung, but it still has more treble and I think that may be it.

There's also something in why I chose Tenor Guitar as my 'octave' instrument of choice - less strings sounding less aurally 'muddy' to me which is poppycock re my now departed OM - that thing sounded gorgeous!

But I digress. I have heard some amazing 'cello playing and maybe I'm just too hamfisted!

Now a cello tenor like the Big Red or the Eastwood 'baritone tenor' .... I'd be into that...

Sorry I digressed massively....!

[wildpikr]

Although some mandolin chord fingers transpose well to mandocello, I think some do not work well, because they are either 1) so low that they sound muddy, or 2) too difficult to play. In general, I think the three-note open position chords are very playable on the top three courses, but less so down low.

I put together this chart of basic chords awhile back for a student, and I hope you will find it useful. Instead of taking a thesaurus-like approach, I have arranged them in simple I-IV-ii-V progressions, in several keys. Enjoy!

Thanks for the chart...are those I-IV-vi-V progressions?

[Bernie Daniel]

In a way you may have hit it on the head as to why I never wanted a Mandocello. I even struggled with OM (sacrificing my beautiful Paul Shippey OM recently since I just didn't play it) for the same sort of reason. Something about double strings and 'too low' for me (but then think of Sarah Jarosz and her Brock...ah well!).... ah I can't put my finger on it. Paradoxically I love my bouzouki and that's unison strung, but it still has more treble and I think that may be it.

There's also something in why I chose Tenor Guitar as my 'octave' instrument of choice - less strings sounding less aurally 'muddy' to me which is poppycock re my now departed OM - that thing sounded gorgeous!

But I digress. I have heard some amazing 'cello playing and maybe I'm just too hamfisted!

Now a cello tenor like the Big Red or the Eastwood 'baritone tenor' .... I'd be into that...

Sorry I digressed massively....!

Thanks for that comment oh Load of the Meles meles-- I like your digression actually.

You gave me a thought (rare for me nowadays) -- maybe I should change my mandocello C course to one string C2 and the other C3? Still unison but an octave apart -- would that make the C-course --used in a chord -- to be more palatable to the ear? Maybe I should try it?

I like having all four members of the family at my finger tips because I can run through these kinds of things systematically doing the same chord formation on each member.

Human hearing is very much bio-mechanical -- when you hear sounds bones, muscles and membranes of the middle ear are very much in play -- i.e., they flex, vibrate and move. So I feel that is the reason for the different results with the different range instruments. The ear does not necessarily work equally well at all frequencies - in fact that concept is well known of course.

That is why I always contend that a mandolin does not open when you play it for 10 minutes rather the moving parts of your middle ear warm up and work better! (but let's not go there on this up to now productive thread! )

So I am Googling "cello tenor like the Big Red or the Eastwood 'baritone tenor'" now

[meow-n-dolin]

Thanks for that comment oh Load of the Meles meles-- I like your digression actually.

You gave me a thought (rare for me nowadays) -- maybe I should change my mandocello C course to one string C2 and the other C3? Still unison but an octave apart -- would that make the C-course --used in a chord -- to be more palatable to the ear? Maybe I should try it?

From what I hear, quite a few folk musicians who play the 'cello (both the them) have done this, albeit they seem to be after the cleaner tone. I had one of the C strings on my Eastman "unravel" and found the difference in tone, well, interesting. Using it as the "bass" string while strumming chords or playing melodies on the other strings would certainly work well.

[Bernie Daniel]

From what I hear, quite a few folk musicians who play the 'cello (both the them) have done this, albeit they seem to be after the cleaner tone. I had one of the C strings on my Eastman "unravel" and found the difference in tone, well, interesting. Using it as the "bass" string while strumming chords or playing melodies on the other strings would certainly work well.

Yes thanks for the comments! My interest seems from the conundrum that I describe in post #13 -- the fact that some chord formations work on a mandolin but not a mandocello. I realize others have seen and described this phenomenon before but I'd like to minimize its presence as much as possible.

[Lord of the Badgers]

Interesting take on my nom de plume Mr Weekend At Bernie heh heh. Sorry my take probably wasn't as good (and nice one for knowing the latin name for the Eurasian Badger of which I am clearly, Lord).

anyways, if you didn't get to google it... BIG RED.... and please can someone order one & do a video, cause I'd sure love to hear one, but it's nigh on impossible to find any footage!

Octave pairing on a cello. I like that. Would sound pretty epic

[Bernie Daniel]

Interesting take on my nom de plume Mr Weekend At Bernie heh heh. Sorry my take probably wasn't as good (and nice one for knowing the latin name for the Eurasian Badger of which I am clearly, Lord).

anyways, if you didn't get to google it... BIG RED.... and please can someone order one & do a video, cause I'd sure love to hear one, but it's nigh on impossible to find any footage!

Octave pairing on a cello. I like that. Would sound pretty epic

Yeah that was a funny movie and for sure anyone named Bernie has had to deal with it!

Re Big Red -- wow yes awesome in concept. I can see it now -- build an 18" super jumbo bout with a 27" scale and you have a fretted cello -- not a mandocello but something equally cool.

OT: Badgers. The Eurasian Badger is half again (estimate!) larger than the American badger but they are members of the same family -- Mustelidae -- one of the largest families of carnivorous mammals. Badger and skunks split on the evolutionary tree about the time primates emerged in Africa. There are still some species of badger with scent glands -- but not in North America. I grew up on the prairies of extreme northwestern North Dakota and we had a lot of badgers on our range land back in the 1950s. Farmers and ranchers did not appreciate them because the holes they dug could cause a horse to break a leg. OTOH they were very efficient predators of ground squirrels for sure. I once saw at a long distance via my spotting scope a badger in Colorado try to attack the nest of two Ferruginous Hawks (the largest N. American buteo hawk) -- it did not go well for him/her. LOL (Ferruginous hawks often nest on piles of rocks and other near ground level objects).

[meow-n-dolin]

You mentioned a mandocello tuned in pairs.... I thought I had seen that somewhere. And I had, on Youtube. The sound quality is not good, but, with a little imagination, you might be able to see if you like the sound.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sAxxrL7DzcY

[Bernie Daniel]

You mentioned a mandocello tuned in pairs.... I thought I had seen that somewhere. And I had, on Youtube. The sound quality is not good, but, with a little imagination, you might be able to see if you like the sound.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sAxxrL7DzcY

Thanks! Yes that video was put up by a member of this forum who is a pretty good mandocello player IMO. I agree the recording device seemed to be struggling to record that MC?

I have tried stringing one of my mandocellos in a octave format also -- for my money I think when you do it the mandocello sounds much like a 12 string guitar -- surprise,surprise! I was proposing here only doing it for the C-course because that is where the "objectionable" sounds seem to be coming from?

[Lord of the Badgers]

IIRC the nordic mandolas use a single nylon C course for their theorbed strings - someone correct me maybe?
Uh oh Bernie - watch out for the white rabbit & the hole.... ! that's the trouble with CBOM, right?

[meow-n-dolin]

Thanks! Yes that video was put up by a member of this forum who is a pretty good mandocello player IMO. I agree the recording device seemed to be struggling to record that MC?

I have tried stringing one of my mandocellos in a octave format also -- for my money I think when you do it the mandocello sounds much like a 12 string guitar -- surprise,surprise! I was proposing here only doing it for the C-course because that is where the "objectionable" sounds seem to be coming from?

I think he may have recorded it using the built-in mike of a laptop -- I have done that and it sounds similar, even with guitar voice. I bet that's why the make accessory microphones for laptops Note: there is certainly nothing wrong with his playing.

I, too, find the sound a bit too much like a 12-string guitar. If I were to experiment in that direction, I would go with a single C string and perhaps play around with a slightly heavier single G string. I chose the mandocello primarily for solo work, so I like it "as-is," but I do use it for accompanying vocals on a few songs. For others I use mostly guitar, occasionally with octave mandolin, and for one i am currently working on, mandola. My wife is the singer, not me. While with a blues band a few years ago, I got paid good cash NOT to sing. LOL

You have a great day!