Page 4 of 8 FirstFirst 12345678 LastLast
Results 76 to 100 of 193

Thread: I don't like F styles. Anyone else?

  1. #76

    Default Re: I don't like F styles. Anyone else?

    If Bill Monroe would have seen a A5 in a barbershop window in 1947
    This would be a very different conversation!

  2. #77
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Nov 2002
    Location
    So Oregon
    Posts
    938

    Default Re: I don't like F styles. Anyone else?

    Having owned in excess of 50 mandolins, a third being F styles, I concluded that a good mandolin does not need to have the affectation of a scroll.
    I prefer two pointers but have also owned remarkable A styles.
    I have mentioned this before, Gilchrist stated that he found no difference in the tone and playability of the A to the F.

  3. #78
    Registered User Gunnar's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2019
    Location
    Balama, Mozambique, Africa, Earth
    Posts
    649

    Default Re: I don't like F styles. Anyone else?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ranald View Post
    Gunnar, how did your search for online fiddle lessons work out?
    I found a website called Bluegrassdaddy.com that I am now a member of, and that is where I get my lessons now. It's quite reasonably priced for the quality of the lessons
    Mandolin: Kentucky KM150
    Other instruments: way too many, and yet, not nearly enough.

    My blog: https://theoffgridmusician.music.blog/
    My YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UChF...yWuaTrtB4YORAg
    My Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/africanbanjogunnar/
    Free backing tracks:
    https://backingtrackers.wordpress.com/

  4. The following members say thank you to Gunnar for this post:

    Ranald 

  5. #79
    Registered User Gunnar's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2019
    Location
    Balama, Mozambique, Africa, Earth
    Posts
    649

    Default Re: I don't like F styles. Anyone else?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Garber View Post
    I know you are fairly young but did you study violin when much younger. I never really had classical teachers so worked out my own ergonomics. Violin/viola has to be the least natural of stringed instruments to adapt the human body to IMHO.
    No, my first foray into bowed instrumentation was when I bought a fiddle a couple years ago, and I had no classical education from that time till now. I play it mostly by ear, and have only forums to turn to for advice
    Mandolin: Kentucky KM150
    Other instruments: way too many, and yet, not nearly enough.

    My blog: https://theoffgridmusician.music.blog/
    My YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UChF...yWuaTrtB4YORAg
    My Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/africanbanjogunnar/
    Free backing tracks:
    https://backingtrackers.wordpress.com/

  6. #80
    Registered User DavidKOS's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2014
    Location
    North CA
    Posts
    4,205

    Default Re: I don't like F styles. Anyone else?

    Quote Originally Posted by MikeEdgerton View Post
    Here's a thought. What if the mandolin that Bill Monroe saw hanging in a barbershop window had been the Ms. Griffith Loar? One. They only made one.
    Good one...even better - what if he never stopped playing his first bowlback mandolin?

    https://www.mandolincafe.com/forum/t...back-Challenge

    "In the wonderful interview that surfaced here recently at the cafe, Bill Monroe states that his first mandolin was a "'taterbug." "

    This thread has been an interesting read, since I am one of the minority of mandolinists that just don't like Gibson style archtop mandolins, the F least of all. I still prefer short scale bowlback or flatback mandolins made in the Italian style, never use a strap, no tone guard, etc.

    I think the real reason I am not fond of the most popular mandolin designs is the scale length and higher string tension, and that I prefer the ringing treble of a good bowlback type mandolin.

    https://www.nodepression.com/50-stat...merican-sound/

    about the Gibson mandolin:

    "According to Paul Sparks in his book The Classical Mandolin, these mandolins had “larger resonating chambers, longer fingerboards, and used considerably more wood in their construction than their contemporaries, all of which created a deeper, more guitar-like tone, with a punchy, powerful attack, but with fewer high harmonics and less brilliance”.

    Then again, for the most part I don't play Bluegrass, certainly not as a main thing.

    Still, all of the reasons pro and con y'all have posted made for enlightening reading.

  7. The Following 6 Users Say Thank You to DavidKOS For This Useful Post:


  8. #81
    Joe B mandopops's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    West of Chicago
    Posts
    505

    Default Re: I don't like F styles. Anyone else?

    My favorite Mandolins are the old Gibson Ovals, the sound, playability, & looks. I am somewhere in between my friend, David, & the F5 lovers. The first decade or so I played Gibson As. I found them comfortable & liked the sound. I did have opportunities to play some flat & bowls backs & F5s. I really disliked F5s. The looks were interesting. The playing & sound we’re a turn off. I found the necks skinny & the strings kind of crowded. I was not a Bluegrasser. I played a lot of solo chord melody so I found chording bunched up. The necks were very “V” shaped & pointy. Did not like the extra string tension especially. Sometimes when I would play one, it belonged to a Bluegrasser who liked the action high for more volume. I’d think, geez how loud do you have to be to make this thing unplayable? & I found the sound rather harsh. Then one day I was in a shop playing an F5 & I got into it. It was different, but I was enjoying it. So I did eventually get a modern F5. Over time I got more into Bluegrass/fiddle tune playing & it suited those styles. I also had acquired an Italian Catania (a flat back, more used to that than bowls) which I love.

    My go to is still one of my vintage Gibson ovals for most stuff, especially for Classical & Italian & for general chilled out pop tunes. I do like playing fiddle tunes on them, too. The F5 is for more Grassy & bigger group jams. On Bluegrass gigs, I always use it. I like it for more aggressive playing. For Jazz & Blues, I can go either A or F. My Italian, I will pull out on special occasions. I like to play it around the holidays & play Xmas tunes. You may have gathered, I’m a Jack of all trades...

    Here’s an aesthetic quirk I have. I think the “A”s look better played while seated & “F”s when standing.

    Joe B
    A Splendid Time is Guaranteed for All

  9. The Following 4 Users Say Thank You to mandopops For This Useful Post:


  10. #82
    Registered User Zigeuner's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    Sacramento County, California
    Posts
    242

    Default Re: I don't like F styles. Anyone else?

    I have a 1917 Gibson A-3 and a '64 Martin A. I recently acquired an F5 Rhodes from a maker in South Carolina. I love both shapes but I can understand how some might think an F model ostentatious. I think they are beautiful, however. Different strokes.
    1917 Gibson A-3, '64 Martin A, 2016 Rhodes F5R.

  11. #83
    Registered User Bob Clark's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Beautiful Salem County, NJ
    Posts
    1,788

    Default Re: I don't like F styles. Anyone else?

    Give me a good flat-top any day. I just really prefer them even though I have a couple of really nice A's/two-points. I have never had an F, but F4's can have real appeal for me. For whatever reason, however, I gravitate to flat-tops, especially with a 13" scale length.
    Purr more, hiss less.

  12. The following members say thank you to Bob Clark for this post:


  13. #84

    Default Re: I don't like F styles. Anyone else?

    You should try being a violinist. So limited on design, so little choice.

  14. #85
    Mando-Accumulator Jim Garber's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Location
    Westchester, NY
    Posts
    27,726

    Default Re: I don't like F styles. Anyone else?

    Quote Originally Posted by Merula View Post
    You should try being a violinist. So limited on design, so little choice.
    I play these weirdos all made in 1915 in New York City. The two on the right have been my main fiddles for years. They have a great sound for my music.

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	AshleyBDF_fronts.jpg 
Views:	13 
Size:	1,001.7 KB 
ID:	189083 Click image for larger version. 

Name:	AshleyBDF_backs.jpg 
Views:	14 
Size:	932.7 KB 
ID:	189084 Click image for larger version. 

Name:	AshleyBDF_sideview.jpg 
Views:	12 
Size:	566.2 KB 
ID:	189085

    It is not that violin makers didn't try to make their own designs. Probably that the players only wanted a violin to look like a violin.
    Jim

    My Stream on Soundcloud
    Facebook
    19th Century Tunes
    Playing lately:
    2018 Campanella A-5 -- 2007 Brentrup A4C -- 1915 Frank Merwin Ashley violin -- Huss & Dalton DS -- 1923 Gibson A2 black snakehead -- '83 Flatiron A5-2 -- 1939 Gibson L-00 -- 1936 Epiphone Deluxe -- 1928 Gibson L-5 -- ca. 1890s Fairbanks Senator Banjo -- ca. 1923 Vega Style M tenor banjo -- ca. 1920 Weymann Style 25 Mandolin-Banjo -- National RM-1

  15. The Following 5 Users Say Thank You to Jim Garber For This Useful Post:


  16. #86
    Innocent Bystander JeffD's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Location
    Upstate New York
    Posts
    23,393
    Blog Entries
    53

    Default Re: I don't like F styles. Anyone else?

    Quote Originally Posted by Bob Clark View Post
    Give me a good flat-top any day. I just really prefer them even though I have a couple of really nice A's/two-points. I have never had an F, but F4's can have real appeal for me. For whatever reason, however, I gravitate to flat-tops, especially with a 13" scale length.
    You know you have a point. The flatty is under-represented here as a choice. Hate to think the whole world is either an F arch top or an A arch top.
    Having something to say is highly over rated.

    The entire staff
    funny....

  17. The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to JeffD For This Useful Post:


  18. #87
    Registered User Nick Gellie's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    Orgiva, Spain
    Posts
    1,309

    Default Re: I don't like F styles. Anyone else?

    Well flattops are the rage for Celtic Mandolin in Europe. It seems as if flattops are not regarded as a serious mandolin in the USA. Still I prefer carved tops because of the type of music. I play. One pays about 800-1200 for a good one here. Simple to make really - a bit like a guitar. Graham McDonald's book has certainly inspired people to make flattops. Maybe I will one day along the lines of a Celtic mandolin.
    Nic Gellie

    Breedlove Quartz KO Mandolin
    Breedlove Quartz FF Mandolin

  19. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Nick Gellie For This Useful Post:


  20. #88
    Mando-Accumulator Jim Garber's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Location
    Westchester, NY
    Posts
    27,726

    Default Re: I don't like F styles. Anyone else?

    Quote Originally Posted by JeffD View Post
    You know you have a point. The flatty is under-represented here as a choice. Hate to think the whole world is either an F arch top or an A arch top.
    I assume by “here” you either mean Mandolin Cafe or in North America. Bandolims are also flattops. Equally if not more underrepresented are bowlbacks.
    Jim

    My Stream on Soundcloud
    Facebook
    19th Century Tunes
    Playing lately:
    2018 Campanella A-5 -- 2007 Brentrup A4C -- 1915 Frank Merwin Ashley violin -- Huss & Dalton DS -- 1923 Gibson A2 black snakehead -- '83 Flatiron A5-2 -- 1939 Gibson L-00 -- 1936 Epiphone Deluxe -- 1928 Gibson L-5 -- ca. 1890s Fairbanks Senator Banjo -- ca. 1923 Vega Style M tenor banjo -- ca. 1920 Weymann Style 25 Mandolin-Banjo -- National RM-1

  21. The following members say thank you to Jim Garber for this post:


  22. #89
    Registered User Bob Clark's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Beautiful Salem County, NJ
    Posts
    1,788

    Default Re: I don't like F styles. Anyone else?

    Quote Originally Posted by Nick Gellie View Post
    Well flattops are the rage for Celtic Mandolin in Europe. It seems as if flattops are not regarded as a serious mandolin in the USA. Still I prefer carved tops because of the type of music. I play. One pays about 800-1200 for a good one here. Simple to make really - a bit like a guitar. Graham McDonald's book has certainly inspired people to make flattops. Maybe I will one day along the lines of a Celtic mandolin.
    I agree, Nick, and I really don't get it. Flat-tops can be every bit as serious an instrument (quality build, great sound albeit different from arch tops) as arch tops. There are a lot of great flat-tops to choose from in a variety of designs from a range of builders, and prices tend to be quite reasonable.

    I also agree about Graham McDonald's book. I have built several flat-tops now and have found his book invaluable. I hope you will share pictures when you build yours!

    Best wishes,

    Bob
    Purr more, hiss less.

  23. The following members say thank you to Bob Clark for this post:


  24. #90
    Registered User Nick Gellie's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    Orgiva, Spain
    Posts
    1,309

    Default Re: I don't like F styles. Anyone else?

    A good quality of flat-top with a built in arch with the braces can project really well in a jam. They are also quicker and easier to make and can look as beautiful as arch-tops.

    See this for example. It is certainly another possibility if you don't like Fs.

    https://www.siveenmandolins.com/copy-of-new-2018-models
    Nic Gellie

    Breedlove Quartz KO Mandolin
    Breedlove Quartz FF Mandolin

  25. The following members say thank you to Nick Gellie for this post:

    Gunnar 

  26. #91
    Registered User Gunnar's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2019
    Location
    Balama, Mozambique, Africa, Earth
    Posts
    649

    Default Re: I don't like F styles. Anyone else?

    I have not had the privilege of playing any flat top mandolins, only a mandola and a bouzouki, but I would love to get one at some point. I play a lot of Celtic music, and the tone seems ideal for that
    Mandolin: Kentucky KM150
    Other instruments: way too many, and yet, not nearly enough.

    My blog: https://theoffgridmusician.music.blog/
    My YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UChF...yWuaTrtB4YORAg
    My Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/africanbanjogunnar/
    Free backing tracks:
    https://backingtrackers.wordpress.com/

  27. #92
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    Central Illinois
    Posts
    3,362

    Default Re: I don't like F styles. Anyone else?

    I have 50 percent A and 50 percent F mandolins and play them all equally ! I agree with you on a toneguard but I still prefer a F !
    My two favorite pastimes are drinking wine and playing the mandolin but most of my friends would rather hear me drink wine! Adapted from quote by Mark Twain------supposedly !

  28. #93
    Stop the chop!
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    europe
    Posts
    1,381
    Blog Entries
    1

    Default Re: I don't like F styles. Anyone else?

    Quote Originally Posted by mandocrucian View Post
    The scroll/points are cosmetic...the real issue should be preference for round/oval holes vs F-holes and SONIC in nature.
    The Gibson F2s and F4s were oval holes with scrolls and points.
    Points help stabilize the mando when playing seated.

  29. #94
    Innocent Bystander JeffD's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Location
    Upstate New York
    Posts
    23,393
    Blog Entries
    53

    Default Re: I don't like F styles. Anyone else?

    I meant here in this thread.

    I thought a lot of bandolims were arch top but you are right, I can't find a single picture of an arch top bandolim.
    Having something to say is highly over rated.

    The entire staff
    funny....

  30. #95
    Registered User Nick Gellie's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    Orgiva, Spain
    Posts
    1,309

    Default Re: I don't like F styles. Anyone else?

    Quote Originally Posted by Bob Clark View Post
    I agree, Nick, and I really don't get it. Flat-tops can be every bit as serious an instrument (quality build, great sound albeit different from arch tops) as arch tops. There are a lot of great flat-tops to choose from in a variety of designs from a range of builders, and prices tend to be quite reasonable.

    I also agree about Graham McDonald's book. I have built several flat-tops now and have found his book invaluable. I hope you will share pictures when you build yours!

    Best wishes,

    Bob
    Bob It might have something to do with the bluegrass chop chord which goes hand in hand with an F5;mandolin. I would say flat tops would be more popular in the USA if there wasn't this single requirement. I mean if your mandolin does not have a woody bassy bluegrass chop chord tone you ain't square or am I wrong?
    Nic Gellie

    Breedlove Quartz KO Mandolin
    Breedlove Quartz FF Mandolin

  31. #96
    Registered User Bob Clark's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Beautiful Salem County, NJ
    Posts
    1,788

    Default Re: I don't like F styles. Anyone else?

    Quote Originally Posted by Nick Gellie View Post
    Bob It might have something to do with the bluegrass chop chord which goes hand in hand with an F5;mandolin. I would say flat tops would be more popular in the USA if there wasn't this single requirement. I mean if your mandolin does not have a woody bassy bluegrass chop chord tone you ain't square or am I wrong?
    Right you are. I think you've hit it on the head. My preference for flat-tops might stem from the fact that I don't play bluegrass at all. I love to listen to bluegrass, but that's not what I play.

    Funny, too, I live in the town which hosts the very large Delaware Valley Bluegrass Festival every year. I really should learn to chop! Uh-oh. . .then I'd need to buy an 'F'!
    Purr more, hiss less.

  32. The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to Bob Clark For This Useful Post:


  33. #97
    Mando-Accumulator Jim Garber's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Location
    Westchester, NY
    Posts
    27,726

    Default Re: I don't like F styles. Anyone else?

    Quote Originally Posted by JeffD View Post
    I meant here in this thread.

    I thought a lot of bandolims were arch top but you are right, I can't find a single picture of an arch top bandolim.
    I wondered if that is what you meant... Flattops have been appreciated in North America for years. Martin As were very common into; Vega cylinderbacks, Weymann, Larson (Stahl, Leland, etc.). The OP just was talking about his experience between As and Fs. That is a very small sample of mandolin players.

    As for bandolims: they were based on Portuguese mandolins (called obviously bandolims). I remember one contemporary maker, Jean Paul Charles (originally from France), in Brazil who did make a carved top bandolim. He passed away in 2013.
    Jim

    My Stream on Soundcloud
    Facebook
    19th Century Tunes
    Playing lately:
    2018 Campanella A-5 -- 2007 Brentrup A4C -- 1915 Frank Merwin Ashley violin -- Huss & Dalton DS -- 1923 Gibson A2 black snakehead -- '83 Flatiron A5-2 -- 1939 Gibson L-00 -- 1936 Epiphone Deluxe -- 1928 Gibson L-5 -- ca. 1890s Fairbanks Senator Banjo -- ca. 1923 Vega Style M tenor banjo -- ca. 1920 Weymann Style 25 Mandolin-Banjo -- National RM-1

  34. The following members say thank you to Jim Garber for this post:


  35. #98
    Registered Muser dang's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    Omaha, NE
    Posts
    1,124

    Default Re: I don't like F styles. Anyone else?

    Quote Originally Posted by Nick Gellie View Post
    Bob It might have something to do with the bluegrass chop chord which goes hand in hand with an F5;mandolin. I would say flat tops would be more popular in the USA if there wasn't this single requirement. I mean if your mandolin does not have a woody bassy bluegrass chop chord tone you ain't square or am I wrong?
    I have to agree, and maybe even that an arch top F hole instrument can do (chordal) rhythm in a way flat tops and oval holes can’t? Or something like that?
    I should be pickin' rather than postin'

  36. #99
    Registered User Nick Gellie's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    Orgiva, Spain
    Posts
    1,309

    Default Re: I don't like F styles. Anyone else?

    For that reason some of the best exponents of jazz, swing, and dawg music play F styles because of the richness of chord tones they get from them. For that reason F styles are preferred in those genres. How would Yank Rachell sounded if he had access to a top class F style? For me playing blues on an oval hole mandolin be it an A or an F oval is the best although one can play
    Blues on a F style if you want. All depends if you want a F style from a builder like Gilchrist or some other top builder to float your boat.
    Nic Gellie

    Breedlove Quartz KO Mandolin
    Breedlove Quartz FF Mandolin

  37. #100
    Registered User f5loar's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2002
    Location
    Salisbury,NC
    Posts
    6,424

    Default Re: I don't like F styles. Anyone else?

    Quote Originally Posted by rgregg48 View Post
    If Bill Monroe would have seen a A5 in a barbershop window in 1947
    This would be a very different conversation!
    It was Jan. 1945 and being there was only one A5 around at that time the odds are he would have not found that one. More likely it could have been a mid 20's Fern. Remember Bill knew brother Charlie had bought a new F5 ( then Lester Flatt) for his mandolin pickers in 1941, so he knew about the F5. And Monroe had seen Dave Apollon up in Chicago playing his F5. Bill had started out on a taterbug, moved up to the Gibson Snakehead A model, then traded that in for a new '34 F7. And he was fine with that F7 until he hit that B chord on the barbershop '23 F5. I'd say he was hooked from then own as he never went back from an F5 model unless he borrowed one that was not an F5. He did record a few songs on an F4. But back to this original post, if you like bluegrass and you don't like any style F model, you are in the minority. I can count on one hand the number of professional bluegrass mandolin pickers that stuck with a A model.

  38. The Following 4 Users Say Thank You to f5loar For This Useful Post:


Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •