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Thread: Exposed Bushings

  1. #26
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    Default Re: Exposed Bushings

    Quote Originally Posted by Richard500 View Post
    Larry, since it’s the non-bearing side that interferes, wouldn’t it make sense to make all bushings with a cutaway on one side? Would work on any taper, including zero. Or is that simply too much change?
    When I make a little sketch I see what you mean and I agree. Even better IMO is to grind/drill/file out the installed bushing so its vertical axis aligns with that of the tuner shaft. This is not a real big deal but a minor engineering issue that has been bothering me for some time.
    -Newtonamic

  2. #27
    Registered User amowry's Avatar
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    Default Re: Exposed Bushings

    What issue did you have with having the holes perpendicular to the face? Was there not enough clearance inside the bushing?

    Quote Originally Posted by Larry Simonson View Post
    I have not had any success drilling tuner shaft holes perpendicular to the face of a tapered head stock though others have. I guess if you drill big enough holes and/or have lesser taper it may work. I drill from the back for the tuner shafts and bore from the face for bushing (both at 90 degrees). The resulting misalignment is relieved by filing the back side (away from the nut) of the bushing such that the tuner shafts have better alignment. Works for me!
    Last edited by amowry; Sep-24-2020 at 12:11am.

  3. #28
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    Default Re: Exposed Bushings

    When drilled perpendicularly to the top of the headstock, the mounting plate of the tuners would not lie flat against the back of the headstock.
    -Newtonamic

  4. #29
    Registered User amowry's Avatar
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    Default Re: Exposed Bushings

    Interesting—were your holes in the headstock the same diameter the whole way through? I’m only curious because I’ve done 150+ this way with no issues, using a taper similar to Gibson’s.

  5. #30

    Default Re: Exposed Bushings

    Andrews method relies on the holes being the size of the bushing all the way through so the shaft isn't restricted by the 1/4" hole.
    In Stew-Macs how-to use their drilling jig it says to drill from the back and only drill the depth needed for the bushing. Here are some drawings from their instructions including the one M.C. Escher drawing where both bushing and tuner plate are magically flush.
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  6. #31
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    Default Re: Exposed Bushings

    Quote Originally Posted by amowry View Post
    Interesting—were your holes in the headstock the same diameter the whole way through? I’m only curious because I’ve done 150+ this way with no issues, using a taper similar to Gibson’s.
    Yes, the holes initially were same diameter 0.25"" all the way thru, but I ended up having to ream the back of the holes on the back of the headstock to mount the tuner plate. As I said before, bigger holes and lesser taper may work

    The bottom line is that 90 degree holes for shafts from one side and 90 degree holes holes for bushings on the other side of a tapered headstock can not share a common axis.
    -Newtonamic

  7. #32
    Registered User amowry's Avatar
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    Default Re: Exposed Bushings

    Oh, I see-- yes, you have to drill the bushing hole all the way through the headstock. I'm not sure why Stew-Mac suggests only drilling it partway through, and I do like that Escher drawing!

    Here's a scale drawing of Waverlys installed the way I do it. Waverlys have the longest and tightest bushings of any tuners I use, and there's just barely enough clearance to do it this way. With other tuners there's more than enough clearance. This is with a typical Gibson taper of around 1 degree (1/16" taper over the length of the tuner plate). Yes, if you have more taper it might not work with Waverlys, but will with most other tuners.

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  8. #33

    Default Re: Exposed Bushings

    Waverly has .006" difference between the shaft and the inside diameter of the bushing.

  9. #34
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    Default Re: Exposed Bushings

    Back to the original purpose of this thread:
    I wouldn't monkey with it too much. If the bushings don't push in easily, and it still bothers you, take it to a very competent repairman. Too much pressure may crack the peghead. For several reasons, I strongly advise against the use of super glues for securing bushings. A drop or two of yellow wood glue would be ok.

  10. #35

    Default Re: Exposed Bushings

    Pretty clear to me that the whole counterbore (stepped hole) thing is just a way to make things look more important, and to sell counterbores, but drilling straight through from the top obviously is just fine. However, the hole location needs to be adjusted to the taper. The Escher dwg. doesn’t indicate stupidity, just that their draftsman didn’t care.
    The tight clearance on the Waverlys is consistent with the general layout of their expensive tuners; at least what I see on their photos. Not engineering as such, just features. So maybe some time with a round file would be needed. It would annoy me, but I’m not doing this kind of work.
    There is one thing I noticed years ago, fixing an old worn spring-wound clock for a friend, where steel shafts were fitted in brass plates (no bushings) and the heavy spring pressure caused the round holes to wear into sort of a keyhole shape, which added enough friction to stop the clock. That is, the wear pattern effectively wedged the shaft. I can see that a bushing on a mandolin avoids a similar problem, but really small clearance serves no purpose. Worse, it amplifies the alignment issue.

  11. #36
    Registered User sunburst's Avatar
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    Default Re: Exposed Bushings

    I use the thin "vintage" style bushings with any tuners that I use. Waverlys work fine with the thin bushings, and in fact I think they used to (still do?) supply a set of them with the tuners along with the thicker bushings. The thin bushings weigh less than any others and that is the main reason I use them, but they also work with all tuner brands so hole drilling is always the same.
    (FWIW, I probably don't gain any lightness at the peghead from the bushings because the drilled holes are smaller and thus less wood is removed. I always drill a bushing-sized hole all the way through the peghead. Never saw the point of a counter-bore. In fact the thought has crossed my mind to counter-bore larger at the back of the peghead just to remove more weight. I figure there would be a loss of strength from that though, so it wouldn't be worth the trouble.)

  12. #37
    Adrian Minarovic
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    Default Re: Exposed Bushings

    Here is one older thread about the same issues with some similar drawings.
    https://www.mandolincafe.com/forum/t...hickness/page2
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    Adrian

  13. #38
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    Default Re: Exposed Bushings

    Back to the original purpose of this thread:
    I wouldn't monkey with it too much. If the bushings don't push in easily, and it still bothers you, take it to a very competent repairman. Too much pressure may crack the peghead. For several reasons, I strongly advise against the use of super glues for securing bushings. A drop or two of yellow wood glue would be ok.
    Thanks. I'm gonna be careful for sure.

  14. #39
    Registered User Charles E.'s Avatar
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    Default Re: Exposed Bushings

    I have a similar situation with my F-5. Not as bad as the OP's but clearly visible. When I first got it, I made a tool to go over the post and reseat the bushings during a string change but the edge farthest away from the nut would not go flush. All about the drilling angle. The tuners work fine and I am not bothered by it at this point.
    Charley

    A bunch of stuff with four strings

  15. #40
    Registered User sunburst's Avatar
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    Default Re: Exposed Bushings

    Quote Originally Posted by Charles E. View Post
    ...I made a tool to go over the post and reseat the bushings during a string change...
    Those of us old enough to remember wooden spools sure do miss their utility.

    BTW, the bridge pin puller on certain guitar string winders can double as a tool to push on loose tuner bushings even with the strings on. If they are loose and have worked forward in the holes that will sometimes re-seat them (at least temporarily).

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  17. #41

    Default Re: Exposed Bushings

    If Adrian’s mention of a tube wrench means the same as my usage, it also has a gap that would allow the string to remain in place. To me, a tube wrench is a box end hand wrench used specifically for soft fittings on tubing, as in hydraulics and plumbing. But anything forklike would do, even a piece of dowel and something to tap with. Since we’re still abusing this deceased equine, how about serrations or a knurl on the bushing to lessen the outcreeping, if such exists?

  18. #42
    Registered User jim simpson's Avatar
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    Default Re: Exposed Bushings

    Firstly, I like long threads like this, lol! I changed out the sloppy tuners on my F5-L, I found the new bushings to be a close fit but not easy to push in. I put an oversize drill bit in my drill press and used it to press in the new bushings. It was easy to do and it left no marks on the bushings.
    Old Hometown, Cabin Fever String Band

  19. #43
    Registered User sunburst's Avatar
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    Default Re: Exposed Bushings

    Quote Originally Posted by Richard500 View Post
    ... To me, a tube wrench is a box end hand wrench used specifically for soft fittings on tubing...
    To me that is a line wrench or perhaps a tubing wrench. Yeah, that would work.

  20. #44
    Adrian Minarovic
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    Default Re: Exposed Bushings

    Quote Originally Posted by sunburst View Post
    To me that is a line wrench or perhaps a tubing wrench. Yeah, that would work.
    Well, for me English is foreign language and what I thought of is wrench that is in form of hexagonal tube, or sometimes round tube with ends crimped into hexagonal shape. There are many possibilities :-).
    Adrian

  21. #45
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    Default Re: Exposed Bushings

    Hello Everyone, i'm reviving this thread with another question: Is there a reputable luthier/ repair person in East Tennessee that could address this issue as well as a string buzzing situation that has developed recently? The mandolin had a hump where the neck joined the body, it was planned down a few years ago but now there's buzzing when the G string is fretted on the 11th and 12th frets. Probably in need of a proper set-up.
    Thankyou.

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