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Thread: new member, old mandolin

  1. #1

    Default new member, old mandolin

    hey guys my names Dylan i joined up after picking up this mandolin in a antique mall.
    i'd like to get it playable again so looking for advice as to what i can/should do. it needs new strings and a bridge made for it obviously, but all i know about mandolins i learned in 15min of googling. so i have no idea what gauge strings are appropriate for it and i need to look around some more for details on the bridge.
    long ramble over, i put in a link to my imgur post with pics and i would appreciate any dating guesses and historical information about it.

    https://imgur.com/gallery/wSncnLS

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  3. #2
    harvester of clams Bill McCall's Avatar
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    Default Re: new member, old mandolin

    I think its cool. The bridge is shot and the tailpiece cover is missing, but you will probably get some help from folks here who know all about these. But it isn't me.

    But I do like it and hopefully it will sound good when its reworked.
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  4. #3
    Moderator MikeEdgerton's Avatar
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    Default Re: new member, old mandolin

    Your mandolin was made in Chicago, Illinois by the Stromberg-Voisenet Company. They became Kay. Here is Cafe member Jake Wildwood playing one that he set up.

    "It's comparable to playing a cheese slicer."
    --M. Stillion

    "Bargain instruments are no bargains if you can't play them"
    --J. Garber

  5. #4
    Moderator MikeEdgerton's Avatar
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    Default Re: new member, old mandolin

    Here is Jake's blog listing for this mandolin.

    It appears you're missing the bridge and the tailpiece cover. Hopefully all of the tuners work as they are near impossible to replace. They are unique to those instruments. They also made a 6 string and tenor guitar in the same style.

    Here is every thread with the term Stromber-Voisenet on the Cafe.

    This mandolin was made "for the trade", that is with no brand name so that a retailer, distributor, school or whatever could label or not label and sell as their own. You can find them with brand names on the occasionally.

    You can cycle through these image files and find several that are similar in shape to your with more trim.

    The same body shape was sold at one point by the company under the brand name Kay Kraft. You'll see the headstock and tuners change in later years.
    "It's comparable to playing a cheese slicer."
    --M. Stillion

    "Bargain instruments are no bargains if you can't play them"
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  6. #5
    Moderator MikeEdgerton's Avatar
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    Default Re: new member, old mandolin

    For posterity:
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    "It's comparable to playing a cheese slicer."
    --M. Stillion

    "Bargain instruments are no bargains if you can't play them"
    --J. Garber

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  8. #6
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    Default Re: new member, old mandolin

    Light strings would be appropriate for this mandolin, maybe a 9-32 or a 10-36. I would err on the light side/
    THE WORLD IS A BETTER PLACE JUST FOR YOUR SMILE!

  9. #7

    Default Re: new member, old mandolin

    wow, i was expecting that it was a mass produced instrument but not that it was close to a 100 years old!

    i ordered a set of 10-34 from amazon they were the lightest i saw when looking.
    does anyone have a pic of the tail piece cover and how it attaches? i think i can probably make one from some stainless steel sheet at work. or a link for a pre-made one if they are readily available.

    for the bridge i see two styles mostly, a straight flat surface for the strings to sit on, and a zigzag surface. whats the difference and which one is more appropriate for this instrument?
    also sometimes i see both styles of bridge with string groves and without?

  10. #8
    Moderator MikeEdgerton's Avatar
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    Default Re: new member, old mandolin

    Quote Originally Posted by DylanHolderman View Post
    wow, i was expecting that it was a mass produced instrument but not that it was close to a 100 years old!

    i ordered a set of 10-34 from amazon they were the lightest i saw when looking.
    does anyone have a pic of the tail piece cover and how it attaches? i think i can probably make one from some stainless steel sheet at work. or a link for a pre-made one if they are readily available.

    for the bridge i see two styles mostly, a straight flat surface for the strings to sit on, and a zigzag surface. whats the difference and which one is more appropriate for this instrument?
    also sometimes i see both styles of bridge with string groves and without?
    Look at all of the pictures in that image search You'll see what was there originally. It had what is commonly called a Waverly Cloud tailpiece. You've got the base. The two units look like this:
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    "It's comparable to playing a cheese slicer."
    --M. Stillion

    "Bargain instruments are no bargains if you can't play them"
    --J. Garber

  11. #9
    Moderator MikeEdgerton's Avatar
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    Default Re: new member, old mandolin

    That tailpiece was manufactured for decades. Over the years the dimensions changed slightly so if you can get the cover and the base do that. There was a Cafe member making reproduction covers but I haven't seen them in a while. Everyone used that tailpiece from Harmony to Kay to Martin to Gibson. The cover slides down on the sides of the base. They do show up as mandolin or banjo tailpieces on eBay, some of us have horded them for years. Some folks buy older inexpensive Harmony and Kay mandolins, harvest the tailpiece cover, replace it with something else and sell it again. They are out there but you will pay more than you paid for your mandolin. That was a good price. AS far as the bridge goes any decent luthier should be able to make that based on the pictures that Jake has of the one he fixed up. Look at his blog above.
    "It's comparable to playing a cheese slicer."
    --M. Stillion

    "Bargain instruments are no bargains if you can't play them"
    --J. Garber

  12. #10
    Registered User Sue Rieter's Avatar
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    Default Re: new member, old mandolin

    Or go see Jake in Vermont if it's not too far. He's a really nice guy and very talented

    Sue

  13. #11

    Default Re: new member, old mandolin

    Quote Originally Posted by Sue Rieter View Post
    Or go see Jake in Vermont if it's not too far. He's a really nice guy and very talented

    Sue
    only about 12 1/2 hours one way (i'm in Ohio)

    i'll keep my eye out for one but being that it isn't critical for it to work i won't worry about it to much, also after looking at pictures of the cover by itself i'm confident i can make it myself if it comes down to that

  14. #12
    Moderator MikeEdgerton's Avatar
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    Default Re: new member, old mandolin

    Here's a tailpiece.

    You might want to jump on this one.
    "It's comparable to playing a cheese slicer."
    --M. Stillion

    "Bargain instruments are no bargains if you can't play them"
    --J. Garber

  15. #13

    Default Re: new member, old mandolin

    got a bridge roughed out from osage and bone, i had to scrape the bottom slightly concave as it turns out the is a very slight crown to the soundboard.





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  17. #14
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    Default Re: new member, old mandolin

    Just a FYI, if you don't know, the bridge should go on the neck side of the can't (bend in the top).

  18. #15

    Default Re: new member, old mandolin

    Quote Originally Posted by Nevin View Post
    Just a FYI, if you don't know, the bridge should go on the neck side of the can't (bend in the top).
    i was not aware of that, thank you. and that would also explain the dark mark i can see on that side of the cant (its a lot more noticeable in the pic)

  19. #16
    Confused... or?
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    Default Re: new member, old mandolin

    Quote Originally Posted by Nevin View Post
    ... the bridge should go on the neck side of the can't (bend in the top).
    Check out Frets.com for info on setting intonation (distance from the neck/frets) and fitting the bridge to an arched top. Don't worry if photos show an arch-top guitar, the logic is the same. Beware... It's easy to get sucked into reading most of the site, which should only take a week or so!

    Beautiful mandolin. And for $30!! Paid maybe $400 for mine!
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  21. #17
    Registered User Cobalt's Avatar
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    Default Re: new member, old mandolin

    On the UK Ebay site someone is offering new covers for this style of tailpiece. But not the bottom half.

    'Cloud' tailpiece cover for mandolin (and banjo?)
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  22. #18
    Moderator MikeEdgerton's Avatar
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    Default Re: new member, old mandolin

    Tony Dixon is a Cafe member and he does nice work on those covers. I believe they are stainless. That's $40.00 US plus shipping. Make sure to send him the measurements of your base if you order one.
    "It's comparable to playing a cheese slicer."
    --M. Stillion

    "Bargain instruments are no bargains if you can't play them"
    --J. Garber

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  24. #19

    Default Re: new member, old mandolin

    Clearly, Dylan has some skill, so I’ll bet that he can make that tailpiece cover. However, tapered sliding fits of bent sheet metal are particularly tricky, and if the original varied over the years, buying just a cover could be a mistake. Like the interesting bridge (much too massive compared to the original little sticks), he should just exercise creativity and make whatever tailpiece or cover he likes.
    The recent discussion of tonality and the James version, if representing actual effect, implies to this physics guy that rigidity and mass at that end is good, or at least I can come up with some punk theory to go with it. So that might be a direction.

  25. #20

    Default Re: new member, old mandolin

    Quote Originally Posted by Richard500 View Post
    Clearly, Dylan has some skill, so I’ll bet that he can make that tailpiece cover. However, tapered sliding fits of bent sheet metal are particularly tricky, and if the original varied over the years, buying just a cover could be a mistake. Like the interesting bridge (much too massive compared to the original little sticks), he should just exercise creativity and make whatever tailpiece or cover he likes.
    The recent discussion of tonality and the James version, if representing actual effect, implies to this physics guy that rigidity and mass at that end is good, or at least I can come up with some punk theory to go with it. So that might be a direction.
    thanks i should of mentioned that i'm a metal worker by trade.
    i was going to jump on the vintage cover/tailpiece that MikeEdgerton linked for me, but i deliberated for to long and someone else grabed it, all well back to plan A

    on another note i got it strung up and tuned (at least according to my cellphone tuner) found out that action is high so tomorrow i get to take the bridge out and sand/scrap it down a bit.

  26. #21
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    Default Re: new member, old mandolin

    Measure at the 12th fret from the top of the fret to the bottom of the string. Decide what you would like that to be and double the difference. Take that amount off the bridge. I hope that makes sense, I am just starting coffee.
    THE WORLD IS A BETTER PLACE JUST FOR YOUR SMILE!

  27. #22

    Default Re: new member, old mandolin

    Plus, maybe let it sit for (a few days?) at full string tension as it’s been unstrung for a long time and might shift a bit, before reshaping the bridge. And keep an eye on that neck joint.

  28. #23

    Default Re: new member, old mandolin

    Another of those "cloud" tailpieces has just been listed- it is an auction but there may not be any or many bids.

    https://www.ebay.com/itm/VINTAGE-MAN...IAAOSwBtNfSoEx

    Quite frankly, when I have paid $50 odd for a tailpiece, there has been a mandolin attached to it- a Kay in both cases and I have gone on to mend the mandolins! I have bought quite a few of these tailpieces and at lower prices, they go quickly but this is an auction, so you can mull it over.

  29. #24

    Default Re: new member, old mandolin

    thanks i went ahead and placed a bid on it, i was kinda bulking at the first one because it was more then i payed for the instrument but when i considered that really i got it for way below what i could have sold for $50 doesn't sound to bad really

  30. #25

    Default Re: new member, old mandolin

    Quote Originally Posted by Richard500 View Post
    Plus, maybe let it sit for (a few days?) at full string tension as it’s been unstrung for a long time and might shift a bit, before reshaping the bridge. And keep an eye on that neck joint.
    I took your advice (partially out of laziness ) and let it sit for a couple of days but it has stayed pretty solidly at about 1/8” at the 12th fret and the neck joint is still solid too so I’m going to go ahead and lower the bridge until I’m sitting around 1/16 at the 12th fret.

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