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Thread: Double Standard

  1. #26

    Default Re: Double Standard

    Quote Originally Posted by DougC View Post
    There should be an easy way for a beginner to access all of the previous threads.
    The easiest way, believe it or not, is NOT to use the Mandolin Cafe search engine. I go straight to Google, type in what I want, and sure enough, the first result is usually the Mandolin Cafe thread or threads I am looking for. It seems, Google knows the contents of the Cafe, better than the Cafe's own search engine does. YMMV.

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  3. #27
    The Amateur Mandolinist Mark Gunter's Avatar
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    Default Re: Double Standard

    Carl, I don't wish to belabor the point in this thread. I'll happily discuss this via PM. Meanwhile, you might ponder why this scientific treatise uses the word incorrectly according to you and sblock: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3813346/

    No one with any real technical education or background agreed with your definition. A number of people who had zero technical education or background got very stubborn about their imprecise and incorrect definition which lead to the thread becoming rather angry and the people who had some real knowledge and input walking away.
    Thanks for the put down, and another stellar characterization.
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  4. #28

    Default Re: Double Standard

    Quote Originally Posted by Hudmister View Post
    Well I'm the guy who posted the sound post question on the Builders section and I was not too surprised buy most of the responses. I knew at the time that I should maybe ask my question on the General Discussions section. I love all those guys and read the Builders section frequently. I'm not new to mandolin, started in 1987 when my mother in law gave me her uncle's mandolin when he passed. Still have it and six more. No. I did not think I had the next brilliant idea that nobody thought of before and told myself if it was a good idea Orville probably would have done it. I actually did a search of the words "sound posts" and what came up was information about various post people had made on the MC. I've done some far out modifications to mandolins over the years and don't plan on stopping. All respect to the builders and luthiers here as I've learned so much from them.
    Sorry of that came out harsh. The builders forum was the right place to put it.

    However the responses will depend on how the posting is presented. If it is asked as a question such as: "Why is a soundpost not effective in a mandolin?" or "Why do people not use soundposts in a mandolin?" you will probably get a response with an explanation or perhaps a comment like here is a link to a prior discussion which goes into depth on the answer. If it is asked as: "Is a soundpost a good idea on a mandolin?" the answer will probably come back as "No it is not" either with a link to the previous discussion or an explanation.

    If it is presented as "Here is my idea I want to try" mainly looking for affirmation, it is not really a question and you will hear things like "go for broke and let us know how it works out" or here is the previous discussion and you might want to read it. No one is stopping you of course but if you expect enthusiastic affirmation and all sorts of positivity it probably will not happen on something that has been tried and discussed a bunch.

  5. #29
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    Default Re: Double Standard

    This may be getting out of hand. Is it time to close it?
    David Hopkins

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  6. #30
    Mando accumulator allenhopkins's Avatar
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    Default Re: Double Standard

    Quote Originally Posted by DHopkins View Post
    This may be getting out of hand. Is it time to close it?
    Nah, not yet. It's been a fun ride: thread drift (Were we talking about amplification? And if so, why?), smart-alec comments, helpful information, not-so-helpful information, sincere attempts to explain the inexplicable, insincere attempts to ditto -- basically, the whole nine yards of Cafe-post volubility and variety.

    By the way, why is it "nine yards?" Aren't you then left with fourth-and-one?
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  7. #31
    The Amateur Mandolinist Mark Gunter's Avatar
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    Default Re: Double Standard

    Quote Originally Posted by allenhopkins View Post
    Nah, not yet. It's been a fun ride: thread drift (Were we talking about amplification? And if so, why?), smart-alec comments, helpful information, not-so-helpful information, sincere attempts to explain the inexplicable, insincere attempts to ditto -- basically, the whole nine yards of Cafe-post volubility and variety.

    By the way, why is it "nine yards?" Aren't you then left with fourth-and-one?
    "the most prominent etymological riddle of our time" according to wiki
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  9. #32
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    Default Re: Double Standard

    Quote Originally Posted by Jeff Mando View Post
    The easiest way, believe it or not, is NOT to use the Mandolin Cafe search engine. I go straight to Google, type in what I want, and sure enough, the first result is usually the Mandolin Cafe thread or threads I am looking for. It seems, Google knows the contents of the Cafe, better than the Cafe's own search engine does. YMMV.


    You can make it even more exact by entering the words you want to search on and adding site:mandolincafe.com to the search string. An example would be:

    soundpost site:mandolincafe.com

    or

    amplify site:mandolincafe.com

    You can also group words together by enclosing the phrase in quotation marks to perfect the search such as:

    "Monroe's mandolin" site:mandolincafe.com

    Using Google also eliminates some of the limitations of the Cafe's built in search engine. You can't search for a 3 letter term like "wax" in the cafe search. You can using Google. This works on any site on the Internet not just the Cafe. Keep in mind that the search function isn't something Scott writes or has any real control over. It's part of the forum software package the Cafe uses.
    "Bargain instruments are no bargains if you can't play them". These are the words of J. Garber.

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  11. #33
    Registered User Charles E.'s Avatar
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    Default Re: Double Standard

    Quote Originally Posted by DHopkins View Post
    I usually check this forum quite regularly, about 5 days a week, and I've noticed a double-standard in some of the responses.

    It's time to play devil's advocate.

    In a recent thread, someone brought up sound posts in mandolins. Responses came quickly. All admonished the OP telling him it's been brought up many times before and you should have searched the forum first.

    On the other hand, at least once a week, someone says, “I've got a new mandolin, What kind of strap should I use?” or “I want a new mandolin. What kind should I get?” and/or “What's the best pick to use?” Everyone jumps in and offers suggestions like they were sales agents (and maybe some are). A search of those subjects would produce enough responses to fill a small library. How come no one suggests that the OP do that search?
    With respect to Hudmister, he asked for thoughts about putting a sound post in a mandolin and my only intention was to share some past posts, nothing more.

    As to answering posts as to "what mandolin should I buy?" I plead guilty to offering suggestions. I like to live vicariously thru the classifieds and help spend other peoples money.
    Charley

    A bunch of stuff with four strings

  12. #34
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    Default Re: Double Standard

    Quote Originally Posted by Jeff Mando View Post
    The easiest way, believe it or not, is NOT to use the Mandolin Cafe search engine. I go straight to Google, type in what I want, and sure enough, the first result is usually the Mandolin Cafe thread or threads I am looking for. It seems, Google knows the contents of the Cafe, better than the Cafe's own search engine does. YMMV.
    To me that’s part of the issue. The site is information dense, and searching the forums using the site tool is often not useful. Even the site moderators suggest using Google and helpfully provide syntax, but how would a newbie know? With the repeated threads about searching, perhaps a little upfront help would be a useful item, maybe a help aid on the Forum page.

    I know this is only a little part of the ‘double standard’ issue, but I think it’s an important one.

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  14. #35
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    Default Re: Double Standard

    Since we are going to discuss the double standard, let's look at this line in the OP.

    In a recent thread, someone brought up sound posts in mandolins. Responses came quickly. All admonished the OP telling him it's been brought up many times before and you should have searched the forum first.
    Here's a screen shot of the first answers. I don't see the admonishments. Could someone point them out to me?
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Click image for larger version. 

Name:	Answers.jpg 
Views:	34 
Size:	219.7 KB 
ID:	187732  
    "Bargain instruments are no bargains if you can't play them". These are the words of J. Garber.

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  16. #36
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    Default Re: Double Standard

    Quote Originally Posted by DHopkins View Post
    Okay, y'all win. I'm going back to bed.
    I've already conceded. If y'all want to keep beating me up, go for it.
    David Hopkins

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  17. #37
    Registered User Charles E.'s Avatar
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    Default Re: Double Standard

    Hey David, you were playing "Devil's Advocate", it's all good.
    Charley

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  18. #38
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    Default Re: Double Standard

    Quote Originally Posted by Charles E. View Post
    Hey David, you were playing "Devil's Advocate", it's all good.
    Obviously, at least one person doesn't think so.
    David Hopkins

    2001 Gibson F-5L
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    Gibson F-4, (1916); Blevins Octave Mandolin, 2018
    McCormick Oval Sound Hole "Reinhardt"
    McCormick Solid Body F-Style Electric; Slingerland Songster Guitar (c. 1939)

    The older I get, the less tolerant I am of political correctness, incompetence and stupidity.

  19. #39
    Fingers of Concrete ccravens's Avatar
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    Default Re: Double Standard

    Quote Originally Posted by DHopkins View Post
    Obviously, at least one person doesn't think so.
    Yeah, but you've got a Gibson F-5L, so no worries!
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  20. #40

    Default Re: Double Standard

    I’m glad questions continue to be asked. As someone new here, it gives me an opportunity to take part in the conversation.

  21. #41
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    Default Re: Double Standard

    Quote Originally Posted by DHopkins View Post
    I've already conceded. If y'all want to keep beating me up, go for it.
    It really has nothing to do with you David or your concession. The process was started and people think this was some sort of admonishment and I just got a PM about it, so let me say this. I really haven't got any issues with anyone having a problem with what I write, but honestly Charley didn't deserve that. Nobody told Charley he had to take the time to link to a conversation he recalled. He did it because it was the right thing to do. That's what this community is about, helping each other find information. So, let's talk about the future. If someone asks a question that you know something about should you not answer? That's an honest question. I'm here because Scott has allows me to be here. I do what I can to find people answers. I don't get paid to do that, it's just what I do. So do we want everyone to not bother getting engaged in a conversation or are there just a few of us that shouldn't? There was no admonition to search first, two sets of links were provided so that the OP of the other thread didn't have to search. Everyone talks about how hard it is to search, I agree the systems not perfect, but we shouldn't provide links to people? Is there anyone here that hasn't followed a link provided by a Cafe member or provided a link for a Cafe member to answer a question?
    "Bargain instruments are no bargains if you can't play them". These are the words of J. Garber.

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  23. #42
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    Default Re: Double Standard

    Quote Originally Posted by allenhopkins View Post
    ...By the way, why is it "nine yards?" Aren't you then left with fourth-and-one?
    I never even thought about where that came from. It appears there are other explanations including a football explanation. None of them sounded real compelling to me so you're on your own.
    "Bargain instruments are no bargains if you can't play them". These are the words of J. Garber.

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  25. #43
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    Default Re: Double Standard

    How to start an argument on the internet: 1) express an opinion; 2) wait. If there weren't opinions in both directions on every topic, there wouldn't be much to discuss and there might not be so much learning. The problem always comes when someone feels the need to claim superiority and claim that their opinion is somehow an indisputable fact. David, I often observe "double standards" here, but then I realize there can be no "standard" for opinions.

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  27. #44
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    Default Re: Double Standard

    IN MY HUMBLE OPINION - sometimes I find that shouting is the best way to get attention. ha,ha

    Please ask Mandolin Cafe to create a FAQ page for beginners. (FAQ is Frequently Asked Questions.)
    Decipit exemplar vitiis imitabile

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  29. #45
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    Default Re: Double Standard

    Quote Originally Posted by DHopkins View Post
    I usually check this forum quite regularly, about 5 days a week, and I've noticed a double-standard in some of the responses.

    It's time to play devil's advocate.

    In a recent thread, someone brought up sound posts in mandolins. Responses came quickly. All admonished the OP telling him it's been brought up many times before and you should have searched the forum first.

    On the other hand, at least once a week, someone says, “I've got a new mandolin, What kind of strap should I use?” or “I want a new mandolin. What kind should I get?” and/or “What's the best pick to use?” Everyone jumps in and offers suggestions like they were sales agents (and maybe some are). A search of those subjects would produce enough responses to fill a small library. How come no one suggests that the OP do that search?
    Soundposts is a static yes or no question where the great majority here agrees on no.

    Straps picks strings - dozens and dozens of ever changing options.

    That's why.

  30. #46
    Registered User Charles E.'s Avatar
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    Default Re: Double Standard

    Quote Originally Posted by DougC View Post
    IN MY HUMBLE OPINION - sometimes I find that shouting is the best way to get attention. ha,ha

    Please ask Mandolin Cafe to create a FAQ page for beginners. (FAQ is Frequently Asked Questions.)
    There already is one.....

    https://www.mandolincafe.com/forum/faq.php?

    Just click on "guidelines" at the top of the page.
    Last edited by Charles E.; Aug-17-2020 at 9:31am.
    Charley

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  32. #47
    Registered User DougC's Avatar
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    Default Re: Double Standard

    Quote Originally Posted by Charles E. View Post
    There already is one.....

    https://www.mandolincafe.com/forum/faq.php?

    Just click on "guidelines" at the top of the page.

    Guidelines?? A 1000 word page about rules and such? How about a quick and easy way for newbies to learn how to get what they want?
    Decipit exemplar vitiis imitabile

  33. #48
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    Default Re: Double Standard

    Quote Originally Posted by DHopkins View Post

    On the other hand, at least once a week, someone says, “I've got a new mandolin, What kind of strap should I use?” or “I want a new mandolin. What kind should I get?” and/or “What's the best pick to use?” Everyone jumps in and offers suggestions like they were sales agents (and maybe some are). A search of those subjects would produce enough responses to fill a small library. How come no one suggests that the OP do that search?
    I am going to guess. Folks that ask these second categories of kinds of questions tend to be newbies, and I think most of us bend over backwards to help them and make them feel welcome. And we have enthusiasm for the choices we have made. Not that we are wise, or even think we are, but we want everyone to experience the happy happy we feel.

    As to the first kinds of questions, its not that we spurn any questions but certain topics have been (violently?) hashed to death, and these memorable threads still produce a twinge in the scars they left. Things like A body vs F body, use of a capo, do instruments open up, do I have to learn to read music, pinky planting, what is and isn't bluegrass, and others. The threat of re-engaging those topics can drive folks to politely have questioner visit the old battlefields themselves.

    There are other topics that have been covered before, and while they may not have been controversial, the explanations are perhaps really complicated, in some cases damn near scientific, and have maybe been explained really well in earlier threads. Easier to cite than to recite.

    I think that is the difference, the so called double standard. Its topic dependent.

    By and large this is one of the most helpful communities on the planet, and even when the topic is scary, and the questioner is directed towards other threads, it is with always with respect and encouragement and I think a very genuine wish to help out the best way possible.
    Indulge responsibly!

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