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Thread: Gibson opposes Collings' headstock trademark registration, citing

  1. #51
    Moderator MikeEdgerton's Avatar
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    Default Re: Gibson opposes Collings' headstock trademark registration, ci

    Quote Originally Posted by j. condino View Post
    I was hanging out at the late luthier John Sullivan's place in Portland back when we were neighbors. One afternoon the mail was delivered and he received a long legal document form the Sullivan Banjo company telling him to immediately stop using THEIR name or face legal threats & consequences. We both laughed out loud as he promptly threw it in the trash.....
    That's actually funny and sad in so many ways.

    Did you ever see this?
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  3. #52

    Default Re: Gibson opposes Collings' headstock trademark registration, ci

    Quote Originally Posted by j. condino View Post
    I was hanging out at the late luthier John Sullivan's place in Portland back when we were neighbors. One afternoon the mail was delivered and he received a long legal document form the Sullivan Banjo company telling him to immediately stop using THEIR name or face legal threats & consequences. We both laughed out loud as he promptly threw it in the trash.....
    There is famous correspondence between Winston Churchill and Winston Churchill about the possibility of confusion between their names. They reached an amicable agreement about how to address the confusion though the American Churchill faded from fame after publishing a handful of novels. It is a lesson on how to handle things with class, respect and humor.

    https://kottke.org/19/03/mr-winston-...ston-churchill
    Last edited by MikeEdgerton; Jul-21-2020 at 8:05pm. Reason: Fixed the link syntax

  4. #53
    Mando accumulator allenhopkins's Avatar
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    Default Re: Gibson opposes Collings' headstock trademark registration, ci

    And when Walter Taylor left the family Taylor Wines business (which had been sold to Coca-Cola, I believe), he wasn't allowed to put his name on the products of his Bully Hill vineyard. He signed them "Walter S Who" for awhile. Bully Hill's still going, Coca-Cola took Taylor Wines down the toilet (article,) and subsequent ownerships haven't kept Gibson from bankruptcy court.

    So it goes.
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  5. #54
    Full Grown and Cussin' brunello97's Avatar
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    Default Re: Gibson opposes Collings' headstock trademark registration, ci

    Quote Originally Posted by allenhopkins View Post
    And when Walter Taylor left the family Taylor Wines business (which had been sold to Coca-Cola, I believe), he wasn't allowed to put his name on the products of his Bully Hill vineyard. He signed them "Walter S Who" for awhile. Bully Hill's still going, Coca-Cola took Taylor Wines down the toilet (article,) and subsequent ownerships haven't kept Gibson from bankruptcy court.

    So it goes.
    The French folks have worked hard to keep Californians from calling their sparkling wines "Champagne" (or burgundy or whatever) and from mustard made in Finland being called "Dijon".

    Greeks get pixxed about weird cheeses being called "feta".

    Don't get started with with folks from Napoli and "Neapolitan" pizza.

    Words either mean something or they don't. I'm on the side of them meaning something but I may be tilting at windmills.

    "The Loar" and "Tex McTucky Mandolins" etc. are simply galling to me. Or reusing "Washburn" for some current Chinese output
    .
    If you don't have any imagination, let alone integrity, maybe try to have some huevos.

    At least the Japanese called their Calace copies: Suzuki.

    You sell your name (or your soul) for money and you reap the whirlwind. TFB.

    Crocodile tears only for the Walter Taylors of the world.

    Grow up and design something of your own.

    <inappropriate political references. Please take it elsewhere. Thanks, we get it, now keep political leanings off the forum, per our posting guidelines.>

    They may be bumbling or not significantly virtuous for this crowd, but I'm with Gibson on this.

    Mick
    Last edited by Mandolin Cafe; Jul-23-2020 at 9:54am. Reason: violates forum posting guidelines.
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  7. #55
    Registered User Murphy Slaw's Avatar
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    Default Re: Gibson opposes Collings' headstock trademark registration, ci

    Quote Originally Posted by brunello97 View Post
    <inappropriate political references. Please take it elsewhere. Thanks, we get it, now keep political leanings off the forum, per our posting guidelines.>
    <inappropriate political references. Please take it elsewhere. Thanks, we get it, now keep political leanings off the forum, per our posting guidelines.>
    Last edited by Mandolin Cafe; Jul-23-2020 at 9:55am.
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  8. #56

    Default Re: Gibson opposes Collings' headstock trademark registration, ci

    Quote Originally Posted by brunello97 View Post
    Words either mean something or they don't. I'm on the side of them meaning something but I may be tilting at windmills.

    "The Loar" and "Tex McTucky Mandolins" etc. are simply galling to me. Or reusing "Washburn" for some current Chinese output
    .
    If you don't have any imagination, let alone integrity, maybe try to have some huevos.

    At least the Japanese called their Calace copies: Suzuki.

    You sell your name (or your soul) for money and you reap the whirlwind. TFB.

    Crocodile tears only for the Walter Taylors of the world.

    Grow up and design something of your own.

    <inappropriate political references. Please take it elsewhere. Thanks, we get it, now keep political leanings off the forum, per our posting guidelines.>

    Mick
    I'm going to admit, I was following along, and it seemed pretty logical.

    Words mean something... definitely.

    Citing aggressive defense of branding titles like "champagne" seems in line with the legal precedent of abandoning trademarks by not defending them. Okay, still logical.

    Living with consequences of previous business actions. That's the windup.

    Purchased company and brands being irritating by using previously untrademarked names or purchased trade names... well, not really the law, but could logically fit the previous thinking. That's the pitch.

    Then, out of nowhere... a purchased company (Gibson) claiming an unregistered trademark which was previously abandoned to the public domain (shape). Not logical, not fitting the previous reasoning and outrage... and a jarring swing and miss.

    What happened between the set-up and the conclusion, that the set-up was suddenly abandoned? I get if someone says, "Sure, no tears for everyone else, but Gibson gets a pass!," but the set-up was so strong and never walked back. Did something get accidentally deleted?
    Last edited by Mandolin Cafe; Jul-23-2020 at 9:55am.

  9. #57
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    Default Re: Gibson opposes Collings' headstock trademark registration, ci

    It doesn’t have to be as simple as a headstock shape. In Germany - https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-53510219

  10. #58
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    Default Re: Gibson opposes Collings' headstock trademark registration, ci

    Quote Originally Posted by Ray(T) View Post
    It doesn’t have to be as simple as a headstock shape. In Germany - https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-53510219
    But that was about something of much greater importance, chocolate
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  11. #59

    Default Re: Gibson opposes Collings' headstock trademark registration, ci

    Funny that Gibson has its hair on fire over Collings “haircut” headstock.

    I guess a lawsuit aimed at Santa Cruz Guitars is right around the corner for the same reason (except that Santa Cruz’ parted haircut is on the right side of the headstock vs. Collings parted haircut is on the left.)


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  12. #60
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    Default Re: Gibson opposes Collings' headstock trademark registration, ci

    Quote Originally Posted by Hobblecreek View Post
    Funny that Gibson has its hair on fire over Collings “haircut” headstock.

    I guess a lawsuit aimed at Santa Cruz Guitars is right around the corner for the same reason (except that Santa Cruz’ parted haircut is on the right side of the headstock vs. Collings parted haircut is on the left.)


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    I forgot to mention that (chocolate aside). My Santa Cruz “F” is just like the Collings. Or is it just like the Gibson or pehaps Gibson is also thinking of registering the letter “F” next!

  13. #61
    Moderator MikeEdgerton's Avatar
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    Default Re: Gibson opposes Collings' headstock trademark registration, ci

    Epiphone actually has a similar headstock shape historically and a newer circa 2000 shape that's similar on their E-series. They are the reverse of the Collings more like the Santa Cruz. I didn't see that in any of what Gibson offered as discovery.
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    Last edited by MikeEdgerton; Jul-24-2020 at 8:50am.
    "Bargain instruments are no bargains if you can't play them". These are the words of J. Garber.

  14. #62

    Default Re: Gibson opposes Collings' headstock trademark registration, ci

    Quote Originally Posted by Explorer View Post
    Not logical, not fitting the previous reasoning and outrage... and a jarring swing and miss.
    Yes..."a jarring swing and a miss"; a glaring lack of logic.

    Quote Originally Posted by Explorer View Post
    Did something get accidentally deleted?
    A portion was deleted (edited), but not accidentally.
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  15. #63
    Registered User EvanElk's Avatar
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    Default Re: Gibson opposes Collings' headstock trademark registration, ci

    Click image for larger version. 

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ID:	187542 Gibson has the copyright on Orville's bow tie design as well
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  16. #64

    Default Re: Gibson opposes Collings' headstock trademark registration, ci

    Quote Originally Posted by EvanElk View Post
    Click image for larger version. 

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ID:	187542 Gibson has the copyright on Orville's bow tie design as well

    There are rules as to how this can be enforced, which require that a company defend their trademarks, and other intellectual property on a regular and frequent basis. But this is not about Gibson's trademarks per say, this is about opposing someone else's application for a trademark.

    Hans Brentrup told me, around the time that Gibson started hassling builders back in the early 2000's, that once a company files for a trademark, other individuals have a certain period of time (I want to say several years) to oppose the application for the trademark. Therefore this is a very long process, and it could take years to finally get a trademark, especially if there is a lot of opposition. It's a legal process, and as every lawyer I know has told me, the law is about process and procedure.
    There's nothing better than first-hand experience.

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