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Thread: Looking for exotic scales for Mandola

  1. #1
    Gypsy Mandola Gypsy's Avatar
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    Default Looking for exotic scales for Mandola

    I can’t seem to find any information on exotic scales for the Mandola.
    like Freygish, Gypsy, Harmonic Minor. And any others.
    The middle eastern music sounds so beautiful to me.
    Does anyone know where I can find information on these ?
    I can’t read music, so I need Fretboard grafts, please and thank you ��
    “ A Broken Heart can be a Painfully Beautiful thing for a Songwriter “
    ~Shari Windsor

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    Registered User DavidKOS's Avatar
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    Default Re: Looking for exotic scales for Mandola

    Quote Originally Posted by Gypsy View Post
    I can’t seem to find any information on exotic scales for the Mandola.
    like Freygish, Gypsy, Harmonic Minor. And any others.
    The middle eastern music sounds so beautiful to me.
    Does anyone know where I can find information on these ?
    I can’t read music, so I need Fretboard grafts, please and thank you ��
    I could suggest a large number of Greek, Arabic, Turkish, Afghan, etc. websites....but it's all in staff notation.

    You don't need to learn to sight read, but if you could work up to figuring out the notes on the treble clef, you could access all that scale info.

    One other point - it's not just a "scale". All the Middle Eastern musical systems associate melodic movement with each maqam, scale, dromo, dastgah, etc.

    You can have two scales with the same pitches but are melodic quite different.

    Anyway, I hope you have luck learning the music of the East.

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  4. #3
    Gypsy Mandola Gypsy's Avatar
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    Default Re: Looking for exotic scales for Mandola

    Thank you David.
    I was able to read music as a child and lost that talent somewhere along the way .
    thank you for your wonderful comment.
    I hope you have a nice day 😊
    “ A Broken Heart can be a Painfully Beautiful thing for a Songwriter “
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  6. #4
    Registered User DavidKOS's Avatar
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    Default Re: Looking for exotic scales for Mandola

    Quote Originally Posted by Gypsy View Post
    Thank you David.
    I was able to read music as a child and lost that talent somewhere along the way .
    thank you for your wonderful comment.
    I hope you have a nice day ��
    And you too!

    here are a few Arabic places to start:

    http://www.learnarabicmusic.com/Lear...bic%20Music-E/

    https://www.maqamworld.com/en/index.php

    http://www.turkishmusicportal.org/en

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  8. #5

    Default Re: Looking for exotic scales for Mandola

    I found that it’s much easier to use tab for this, I did a vid on what I knew about the Harmonic Minor scale a while ago.
    It helps a lot too, if you have fretboard vids of people playing the tunes because fingering can be problematic.
    Some techniques become much more important than others depending on what music you want to play and a teacher is probably a good idea.
    Good luck, there are some wonderful, colourful scales about.

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    Mando accumulator allenhopkins's Avatar
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    Default Re: Looking for exotic scales for Mandola

    Well, my shorthand approach for freygish, which is a Yiddish-ism for Phrygian, is to take a standard minor scale, and play in the "5" chord of that scale. Example: playing in the key of D, but using a G minor scale.

    Standard D scale D E F# G A B C# D

    Freygish D D# F G A A# C D

    That's what sorta works for me. People with real theoretical knowledge, feel free to poke holes in my explanation...
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    Gypsy Mandola Gypsy's Avatar
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    Default Re: Looking for exotic scales for Mandola

    Thank you very much David !
    “ A Broken Heart can be a Painfully Beautiful thing for a Songwriter “
    ~Shari Windsor

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    Gypsy Mandola Gypsy's Avatar
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    Default Re: Looking for exotic scales for Mandola

    Thank you so much Allen. That helps a lot . ��
    “ A Broken Heart can be a Painfully Beautiful thing for a Songwriter “
    ~Shari Windsor

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    Gypsy Mandola Gypsy's Avatar
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    Default Re: Looking for exotic scales for Mandola

    Yes tablature would definitely be best. Ill seek a teacher. Thank you Simon. I’ll check out your videos ! 😊
    “ A Broken Heart can be a Painfully Beautiful thing for a Songwriter “
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    Default Re: Looking for exotic scales for Mandola

    Quote Originally Posted by allenhopkins View Post
    Well, my shorthand approach for freygish, which is a Yiddish-ism for Phrygian, is to take a standard minor scale, and play in the "5" chord of that scale. Example: playing in the key of D, but using a G minor scale.

    Standard D scale D E F# G A B C# D

    Freygish D D# F G A A# C D

    That's what sorta works for me. People with real theoretical knowledge, feel free to poke holes in my explanation...
    The correct spelling of the scale is:

    D Eb F# G A Bb C D

    "playing in the key of D, but using a G minor scale"

    Actually it is the G harmonic minor scale from the 5th scale degree.



    The last scale in the picture should have a C natural to be Mixolydian or Molokh Adonai, though. The scale they used is major, not mixolydian.

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    Default Re: Looking for exotic scales for Mandola

    For you, it is exotic. For me, it is a living. (familiar quote). I'm sure I have some stuff in TAB. Stay tuned.

    A quick look thru a few hundred charts and I found this; which may be useful.


    Click image for larger version. 

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    Last edited by DougC; Jun-23-2020 at 10:54am.
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    Default Re: Looking for exotic scales for Mandola

    Quote Originally Posted by DougC View Post
    For you, it is exotic. For me, it is a living. (familiar quote).
    That reminds me of a comment I heard in the early 80's at the first couple of Klez camps in New York:

    Dm is not just another key, it's a way of life.

    There is a lot of connection to the Southern form of Klezmer that was popular in the USA to Greek and Turkish music.

    http://www.tsalo.fi/Greek%20and%20Turkish%20scales.html

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    Gypsy Mandola Gypsy's Avatar
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    Default Re: Looking for exotic scales for Mandola

    David, Thank you 😊

    - - - Updated - - -

    Thank you, Doug ! 😊
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  22. #14
    Gypsy Mandola Gypsy's Avatar
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    Default Re: Looking for exotic scales for Mandola

    This is great, thank you for finding this Doug !!!
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    Default Re: Looking for exotic scales for Mandola

    Quote Originally Posted by Gypsy View Post
    This is great, thank you for finding this Doug !!!
    Yea, that's a good chart. With a little creative effort, one can play just the chords from one to the next with some tremlo and have a very Russian sounding doyna. Or one can play the note patterns forward and then backwards every two bar group. There is a lot if information there. I'm gonna play with it some more. eg. write the TAB for mandola and add some finger charts in CGDA.
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  25. #16
    Gypsy Mandola Gypsy's Avatar
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    Default Re: Looking for exotic scales for Mandola

    I’m playing with it a lot. I really appreciate it. Thank you for your help.
    That sounds great. Please share 😊
    “ A Broken Heart can be a Painfully Beautiful thing for a Songwriter “
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  26. #17

    Default Re: Looking for exotic scales for Mandola

    Gypsy, there are a couple of books I pull out when building materials from scratch, A Visual Guide to Chords and Arpeggios for Tenor Banjo in CGDA, and A Visual Guide to Scales for Tenor Banjo in CGDA. Both are by Benjamin M. Taylor.

    The books have some funkiness, as the numbering of the pages in the TOC is off by a consistent offset which was missed in final editing, but the information is laid out spanning the whole fretboard.

    I think I got both new for $24 from Amazon.

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  28. #18
    Gypsy Mandola Gypsy's Avatar
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    Default Re: Looking for exotic scales for Mandola

    Great !
    Thank you very much Explorer, that sounds perfect 😊
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    Default Re: Looking for exotic scales for Mandola

    Quote Originally Posted by Explorer View Post
    Gypsy, there are a couple of books I pull out when building materials from scratch, A Visual Guide to Chords and Arpeggios for Tenor Banjo in CGDA, and A Visual Guide to Scales for Tenor Banjo in CGDA. Both are by Benjamin M. Taylor.

    The books have some funkiness, as the numbering of the pages in the TOC is off by a consistent offset which was missed in final editing, but the information is laid out spanning the whole fretboard.
    Since that book has been out, others have made similar (and easier to understand), books and software programs. One called the Absolute Fretboard Trainer is outstanding.
    http://www.micrologus.com/orders#abs...tboard_trainer

    Another is called Fretboard Toolbox by Scott Sharp - very good for building chords and chord patterns.
    https://www.fretboard-toolbox.com/te...d-mandola.html
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    Default Re: Looking for exotic scales for Mandola

    Here’s a scale reference page, there’s an audio file for each one.
    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List...ales_and_modes
    It can be good to get a teacher though, at least to show you how some scales are similar to others. Makes the complexity easier to understand.
    eg. with modes: G major scale, ionic , A dorian, B phrygian, C lydian and D mixolydian, E aeolian, and F# locrian all use the same notes, just differing centres.

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  33. #21
    Gypsy Mandola Gypsy's Avatar
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    Default Re: Looking for exotic scales for Mandola

    Thank you, Simon, very generous of you !
    I will seek a teacher.
    “ A Broken Heart can be a Painfully Beautiful thing for a Songwriter “
    ~Shari Windsor

  34. #22
    Gypsy Mandola Gypsy's Avatar
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    Default Re: Looking for exotic scales for Mandola

    Thank you,Doug I do have fretboard toolbox for guitar, mandolin and CGDA.
    I’ll check out the other also.
    I appreciate it !
    “ A Broken Heart can be a Painfully Beautiful thing for a Songwriter “
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  35. #23
    Registered User DougC's Avatar
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    Default Re: Looking for exotic scales for Mandola

    Quote Originally Posted by Gypsy View Post
    Thank you,Doug I do have fretboard toolbox for guitar, mandolin and CGDA.
    I’ll check out the other also.
    I appreciate it !
    You are certainly welcome Gypsy. Everyone is helpful here.
    I might add however that looking at books and charts is about as exciting as reading a dictionary! Interactive software helps. But...
    I'm much more inclined to learn some tunes in a particular mode, by ear and then figure what intervals and patterns are there.
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  37. #24

    Default Re: Looking for exotic scales for Mandola

    Quote Originally Posted by DougC View Post
    I might add however that looking at books and charts is about as exciting as reading a dictionary! Interactive software helps. But...

    I'm much more inclined to learn some tunes in a particular mode, by ear and then figure what intervals and patterns are there.
    An alternate point of view...

    When learning new knowledge or a new skill, it's not about the looking. One obviously needs to actually practice what is being studied in order to internalize it. Whether one sits with a book and plays against a metronome or backing track from YouTube, or uses software which tries to anticipate how to combine such activities, it's still going to be work.

    Learning a mode by looking at tunes built on that mode, and then figuring out what the actual bones of the mode are, works for some. It can also work for others to learn the bones, and then learn tunes which sit on top of them. I personally think, from the standpoint of a teacher, that the sooner you can get to the nuts and bolta of the underpinnings, like say letters, the sooner the student can then learn them completely, and not struggle trying to recall them when building words, and then sentences and then writing longer ideas in various forms.

    Studies indicate that rote learning of the nitty gritty basics helps a student internalize to where they no longer have to figure those basics out anew every time their needed. If one learns the ABC song and how to write the letters, or learns the times tables, or learns a mode, through rote repitition and internalization, then it's there to build on.

    And no, it's not necessarily exciting, but it is a proven strategy to really learn and master knowlege. It doesn't matter if it's a book, a screen, an audio file, it's the quality time and practice invested in actually internalizing the knowedge.

    The reason I've never discouraged someone from working with books is that software only covers what the builder imagines someone wants. It's the same issue as when someone's learning is limited to tabbed music.

    Right now, I've been working on really learning Gypsy Jazz on mandola. There's no real sources for CGDA tuning, so I built an incomplete chord dictionary using modified Freddy Green concepts, three-note chords with either the root or fifth on the lowest string, and then either a 3-7 or 7-3 stack on top. I then build a chord chart for the target tune, with different chord variations. Then I sit down with a metronome or recording and pompe my way through it. Once the chords are second nature, then melody and soloing happen, and it is definite helpful to have gypsy jazz books for guitar which explain the ornamentation. I could discern those ornaments over time, but having the basics laid out makes uptake (actual perception and understanding of what I'm hoping to learn) easier, skipping the problem of figuring out what is actually important regarding the bones.

    And all the bones now being used for tackling this particular subject came from books, internalized through boring practice.

    Nothing against software, of course, especially if the software covers what one wants, and one can easily and quickly fire it up where one wants to use it.

    ----

    TL;DR... If mastery is the goal, not "exciting" isn't might not be the best way to judge a learning resource.

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  39. #25
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    Default Re: Looking for exotic scales for Mandola

    Sometimes my comments really 'strike a nerve'. Oh well. Without it however, Explorer may have never mentioned the great work he's doing with Gypsy Jazz on mandola. That is VERY COOL.
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