Page 2 of 4 FirstFirst 1234 LastLast
Results 26 to 50 of 84

Thread: New Vessel Loar A5 tribute

  1. #26
    My Florida is scooped pheffernan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Location
    Fort Lauderdale, FL
    Posts
    3,076

    Default Re: New Vessel Loar A5 tribute

    Quote Originally Posted by testore View Post
    The model makes a great f holed mandolin. The tone on this one is a little throaty, which I love, and it plays very easily. Currently strung with GHS cryogenic strings. Im not at all familiar with these strings so I dont know how a set of J74s or 75s will work. But Im sure it can handle the brightness that those strings bring.
    If youre not cooking up something else to part me and my money, I sure would love to hear/see an audio/video sample of this mandolin, Gary!
    1924 Gibson A Snakehead
    2005 National RM-1
    2007 Hester A5
    2009 Passernig A5
    2015 Black A2-z
    2010 Black GBOM
    2017 Poe Scout
    2011 Passernig F5
    2018 Vessel TM5

  2. #27
    Registered User testore's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
    Location
    Turlock, California
    Posts
    1,801

    Default Re: New Vessel Loar A5 tribute

    I wish I was a better player, but I’ll see what I can do.
    vesselmandolins.blogspot.com

  3. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to testore For This Useful Post:


  4. #28
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Sep 2002
    Location
    Huntingdon Valley, PA
    Posts
    276

    Default Re: New Vessel Loar A5 tribute

    Even without seeing it in person, I’m quite sure that this mandolin is tremendous!

  5. #29
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    S.W. Wisconsin
    Posts
    5,569

    Default Re: New Vessel Loar A5 tribute

    Quote Originally Posted by testore View Post
    I wish I was a better player, but I’ll see what I can do.
    I would be more than glad to play it for you
    THE WORLD IS A BETTER PLACE JUST FOR YOUR SMILE!

  6. The following members say thank you to pops1 for this post:


  7. #30
    Registered User William Smith's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    Sugar Grove,PA
    Posts
    2,865
    Blog Entries
    1

    Default Re: New Vessel Loar A5 tribute

    Gary, Gary, Gary, Oh yeah buddy! That baby is the epitome of GNARLY! I would love to wrap my paws around that little feller! Gorgeous wood choice and build! Does this have the same type deep neck set as my LL Tribute you built? I'm a firm believer in those deeper set necks. I have that done on all my mods! Many builders underset them and you just don't get the power and tonal bliss! I played a bunch of F-5's from the late 30's and they were hurting in that aspect. But all can be re-set deeper. John Duffey was one that swore by this and I know on his builds/mods he set them deeper. My Uncles Duffey F-7 convert that John did and played in the early 60s has a very deep neck set. I wonder if this thought process came from the violin world as those necks seem to be cocked back quite a bit?

    Well done, ok somebody buy something from me so I can justify this A-5-LoL!!!!!!!!!! Is that the Pag case you got from me a long while back?

    What did you use for tuners?

  8. #31
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    Central Illinois
    Posts
    3,254

    Default Re: New Vessel Loar A5 tribute

    Quote Originally Posted by testore View Post
    I wish I was a better player, but I’ll see what I can do.
    Who doesn't ??
    My two favorite pastimes are drinking wine and playing the mandolin but most of my friends would rather hear me drink wine! Adapted from quote by Mark Twain------supposedly !

  9. #32
    Certified! Bernie Daniel's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    Cincinnati, Ohio, USA
    Posts
    8,250
    Blog Entries
    4

    Default Re: New Vessel Loar A5 tribute

    I'm sure mine is a minority opinion and I will affirm that I have the greatest respect (and no ill will at all) for the skills of the builder.

    That said, I have to confess that I do not understand how is this mandolin is a "tribute"?

    Putting "The Gibson" on the head stock and signing Lloyd Loar on the label would under most situations constitute what would be called a forgery?

    And it kind of raises another question in my mind. Is it not true that ads copy=tribute=forgery mandolins are not allowed on the pages of the MC Classifieds? (at lest I think that is true?). But they are allowed on the forum discussion?

    Like I noted before I'm sure many members might well disagree with my position on this and it is not intended to be personal just a frank expression of an alternate opinion on this rather unique interpretation of the concept of "tribute".

    It is undeniably a beautiful mandolin though.
    Bernie
    ____
    Due to current budgetary restrictions the light at the end of the tunnel has been turned off -- sorry about the inconvenience.

  10. The following members say thank you to Bernie Daniel for this post:


  11. #33
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Sep 2002
    Location
    atlanta ga
    Posts
    474

    Default Re: New Vessel Loar A5 tribute

    My wife once attended a girls-night-out art class with a friend.
    The event consisted of an instructor and a dozen girls sipping Chardonnay while attempting to paint Van Goghs Starry night with varying degrees of skill.
    Considering there is only one original, I doubt any of the copies attempted that night would be considered forgeries.

    An item only becomes a forgery when there is attempt to pass it off as the original.

  12. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to barry For This Useful Post:


  13. #34
    Certified! Bernie Daniel's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    Cincinnati, Ohio, USA
    Posts
    8,250
    Blog Entries
    4

    Default Re: New Vessel Loar A5 tribute

    Quote Originally Posted by barry View Post
    My wife once attended a girls-night-out art class with a friend.
    The event consisted of an instructor and a dozen girls sipping Chardonnay while attempting to paint Van Goghs Starry night with varying degrees of skill.
    Considering there is only one original, I doubt any of the copies attempted that night would be considered forgeries.

    An item only becomes a forgery when there is attempt to pass it off as the original.
    forgery fr′jə-rē► n. The act of forging something, especially the unlawful act of counterfeiting a document or object for the purposes of fraud or deception.
    n. Something that has been forged, especially a document that has been copied or remade to look like the original.
    n. The act of forging or working metal into shape.

    I think that the "attempt to sell" has nothing to do with the definition? The "The Gibson with the flowerpot" is a Gibson copyrighted feature so that is different then a V. van Gogh painting -- which I is suppose would be in the public domain?

    And of course I did not imply there would be any attempt to sell this new A-5 in any nefarious way. But with luck the mandolin will live for centuries -- long after the Mandolin Cafe has faded from memory? Every sale of this and other "tribute" copies presents a chance for fraud. I just see nothing served by doing this?
    Bernie
    ____
    Due to current budgetary restrictions the light at the end of the tunnel has been turned off -- sorry about the inconvenience.

  14. #35

    Default Re: New Vessel Loar A5 tribute

    Homage (/ˈhɒmɪdʒ/ or /ˈɒmɪdʒ/) is a show or demonstration of respect or dedication to someone or something, sometimes by simple declaration but often by some more oblique reference, artistic or poetic. The term is often used in the arts for where one author or artist shows respect to another by allusion or imitation; this is often pronounced like the French hommage (/oʊˈmɑːʒ/).[1]

  15. #36
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Location
    St Paul, Minn
    Posts
    355

    Default Re: New Vessel Loar A5 tribute

    ....then I guess it would be ok for me to start building and putting Vessel on the headstock and a copy of his sticker on the inside?

  16. #37
    Registered User testore's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
    Location
    Turlock, California
    Posts
    1,801

    Default Re: New Vessel Loar A5 tribute

    Go ahead. But first you’d have to be willing to sell your F models for $485. That’s about the same ratio one pays for one of mine compared to a Loar. A $485 Vessel copy would likely increase my sales of genuine articles. Impersonation is a high form of flattery after all.
    The intent here is quite obvious. If I really intended to be a fraud or a forger I’d never post photos of my work, which is really posted to show my reverence for the originals that I copy. Further, my willingness to have Darryl Wolfe dissect one of my F copies in public on this forum was also meant to elevate the greatness of the original article. My copies would never fool even a casually knowledgeable person. With each one I learn new things. Mostly, how impossible it is to make something that doesn’t look like a copy. But, my attention to these subtle details has made me a better builder.
    vesselmandolins.blogspot.com

  17. The Following 4 Users Say Thank You to testore For This Useful Post:


  18. #38
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Location
    St Paul, Minn
    Posts
    355

    Default Re: New Vessel Loar A5 tribute

    You kind of miss the point. But carry on.....

  19. #39
    Registered User testore's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
    Location
    Turlock, California
    Posts
    1,801

    Default Re: New Vessel Loar A5 tribute

    Not at all. Make a Vessel copy for us to see your work.
    vesselmandolins.blogspot.com

  20. The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to testore For This Useful Post:


  21. #40
    Certified! Bernie Daniel's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    Cincinnati, Ohio, USA
    Posts
    8,250
    Blog Entries
    4

    Default Re: New Vessel Loar A5 tribute

    I'll also point out that I have no personal axe to grind in the discussion and what you build in your shop is clearly your business. My point was that regardless of your intent was it seems that building that mandolin obviously violates a legal Gibson patent/copyright?

    Am I wrong about that and can everyone just start building Gibson tributes?

    If I rob a bank because I want to give a million dollars to St. Jude's Children's Hospital is it OK? Laws are laws.

    But again what you do is your call -- I just don't see the logic or the reason for these tributes -- to use your term. I don't think it is the right thing to do. But as the previous poster said "carry on". I've had my say.

    PS You made one statement that really caught my attention. "My copies would never fool even a casually knowledgeable person." Seriously? Come on that can't be true??
    Bernie
    ____
    Due to current budgetary restrictions the light at the end of the tunnel has been turned off -- sorry about the inconvenience.

  22. #41

    Default Re: New Vessel Loar A5 tribute

    Quote Originally Posted by Bernie Daniel View Post
    PS You made one statement that really caught my attention. "My copies would never fool even a casually knowledgeable person." Seriously? Come on that can't be true??
    Ummm...there was only one Loar A5...so yep.

    Violin makers have been copying Strads and Guarneri's for hundreds of years...it's a tribute......you get it or you don't....unless a builder passes it off as an original then who cares....lots of 70's F5 makers, when Gibson quality was the pits, made F5's with "The Gibson" on the headstock with reproduction Loar labels...if you know what you're looking at, they're obviously not the real deal, but they're an "homage" to the REAL Loar signed F5's.

    This is getting a bit silly.....IMO.
    Last edited by oliverkollar; Jun-29-2020 at 8:13pm.

  23. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to oliverkollar For This Useful Post:


  24. #42
    Registered User testore's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
    Location
    Turlock, California
    Posts
    1,801

    Default Re: New Vessel Loar A5 tribute

    Is anyone bothered by this?
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Click image for larger version. 

Name:	19A605DB-4B54-45AE-8363-A26C340E1394.jpeg 
Views:	41 
Size:	736.2 KB 
ID:	186902   Click image for larger version. 

Name:	21761CAF-E088-44DA-9AE4-A63844CB115D.jpg 
Views:	71 
Size:	406.6 KB 
ID:	186903   Click image for larger version. 

Name:	51B2091B-2D4A-475E-969F-DA5E5099119E.jpg 
Views:	33 
Size:	419.3 KB 
ID:	186904  

    vesselmandolins.blogspot.com

  25. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to testore For This Useful Post:


  26. #43

    Default Re: New Vessel Loar A5 tribute

    Quote Originally Posted by testore View Post
    Is anyone bothered by this?
    I am.....

  27. #44
    Registered User Charles E.'s Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Saint Augustine Beach FL
    Posts
    4,774

    Default Re: New Vessel Loar A5 tribute

    Very nice mandolin but it's not like you are trying to be one of the Voller brothers of the mandolin world. I assume that you include your stamp or mark in the instrument to make that clear?
    Charley

    A bunch of stuff with four strings

  28. #45
    Registered User testore's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
    Location
    Turlock, California
    Posts
    1,801

    Default Re: New Vessel Loar A5 tribute

    There are interior signs that it is not an original item, aside from freely posting my work on the internet.
    vesselmandolins.blogspot.com

  29. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to testore For This Useful Post:


  30. #46
    My Florida is scooped pheffernan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Location
    Fort Lauderdale, FL
    Posts
    3,076

    Default Re: New Vessel Loar A5 tribute

    Quote Originally Posted by Bernie Daniel View Post
    forgery fr′jə-rē► n. The act of forging something, especially the unlawful act of counterfeiting a document or object for the purposes of fraud or deception.
    Not speaking for anyone else, but for me, this part of the definition renders the term (and therefore the characterization) inaccurate.
    1924 Gibson A Snakehead
    2005 National RM-1
    2007 Hester A5
    2009 Passernig A5
    2015 Black A2-z
    2010 Black GBOM
    2017 Poe Scout
    2011 Passernig F5
    2018 Vessel TM5

  31. The following members say thank you to pheffernan for this post:


  32. #47
    Mandolin & Mandola maker
    Join Date
    Sep 2002
    Location
    Bega NSW, Australia
    Posts
    1,222

    Default Re: New Vessel Loar A5 tribute

    Trying to stay out of this, but if you continue to put The Gibson name on the headstock and/or label you are likely to get a cease and desist letter from Gibson lawyers. Others I know have, and it can get very stressful.
    Peter Coombe - mandolins, mandolas and guitars
    http://www.petercoombe.com

  33. #48
    Adrian Minarovic
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
    Location
    Banska Bystrica, Slovakia, Europe
    Posts
    2,660

    Default Re: New Vessel Loar A5 tribute

    Stradivari's lawyers are long dead but Gibson's not so much.
    I think mking such mandolin is probably not illegal, but once you sell it with the logo they can go after you (if they have evidence). You're kicking hornets' nest...
    Adrian

  34. #49

    Default Re: New Vessel Loar A5 tribute

    Quote Originally Posted by Bernie Daniel View Post
    I'm sure mine is a minority opinion and I will affirm that I have the greatest respect (and no ill will at all) for the skills of the builder.

    That said, I have to confess that I do not understand how is this mandolin is a "tribute"?

    Putting "The Gibson" on the head stock and signing Lloyd Loar on the label would under most situations constitute what would be called a forgery?

    And it kind of raises another question in my mind. Is it not true that ads copy=tribute=forgery mandolins are not allowed on the pages of the MC Classifieds? (at lest I think that is true?). But they are allowed on the forum discussion?

    Like I noted before I'm sure many members might well disagree with my position on this and it is not intended to be personal just a frank expression of an alternate opinion on this rather unique interpretation of the concept of "tribute".

    It is undeniably a beautiful mandolin though.
    I think Bernie asks a couple of perfectly legitimate questions. And asks them in a polite and respectful tone. No accusations... just questions.

    I'm on record here as being an admirer of Vessel's work. I don't have even the slightest suspicion that these 'Tributes' were meant to be anything other than that... tributes. Regardless of the intentions of the builder, putting 'Gibson' on the headstock is risky business IMO. Recent announcements by Gibson (heavy-handed, clumsy and desperate sounding though they may be) make it clear that they're not amused by any form of imitation.

    Quote Originally Posted by testore View Post
    ... My copies would never fool even a casually knowledgeable person.
    That makes me less than "casually knowledgeable". But it puts me in good company.

    https://www.mandolincafe.com/forum/t...ht=april+fools
    "I play BG so that's what I can talk intelligently about." A line I loved and pirated from Mandoplumb

  35. #50
    Registered Muser dang's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    Omaha, NE
    Posts
    1,089

    Default Re: New Vessel Loar A5 tribute

    Very cool work. I was happy reading the F-5 tribute analysis thread, and thought it was an amazing way to put yourself out there for that detailed of a level of analysis. But this is out of this world for an A-5 lover like myself... thanks for doing your part to preserve the history of the Gibson A-5 Loar.

    Well done Gary!

    I kind of understand the tribute side of this, but I would want one with your name on the headstock. You deserve it. If only humans could see the value of objects instead of the branding on the objects - tributes like this wouldnt be necessary.

    But where would we be in the mandolin world without the exercise of making tributes/bench copies? IIRC from what I have read here, several (many?) well known luthiers have such instruments in their histories?

    Its not like the legal side of this can be worked out here anyway, point made, please keep up with the discussion of this mandolin! I appreciate the insights shared and wish I had some to contribute, but will have to content myself with following this thread.
    I should be pickin' rather than postin'

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •