Results 1 to 12 of 12

Thread: Pickguard Reset on Weymann Bowlback

  1. #1
    Registered User
    Join Date
    May 2020
    Location
    SoCal
    Posts
    24

    Default Pickguard Reset on Weymann Bowlback

    How should I reattach the original pickguard as shown in the picture?
    This is the same Weymann that is getting a replacement stave in another post.

    The top had a crack down the middle under the pickguard
    The crack had split the pickguard into two pieces and the guard was curling at the crack
    The top had also separated slightly from the soundhole brace.

    I decided to remove the pickguard with hairdyer and spatula
    Then was able to properly glue the brace and add a splint to the crack.

    I need to flatten the guard. Would a clothes iron on low or medium protected by cloth work? or other way?
    I need to glue the guard to the top. Should I use liquid hide on both surfaces? or something else?
    (I think original was hide as the residue cleaned up with damp cloth.
    How to clamp the guard while the glue dries? would weighting it down work? or tape? or other way?

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	0617202224.jpg 
Views:	47 
Size:	356.0 KB 
ID:	186671

  2. #2
    Registered User
    Join Date
    May 2020
    Location
    SoCal
    Posts
    24

    Default Re: Pickguard Reset on Weymann Bowlback

    Any opinions or advice please?

  3. #3
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    S.W. Wisconsin
    Posts
    5,573

    Default Re: Pickguard Reset on Weymann Bowlback

    I have heated pickguards and then clamped flat, but it doesn't seem to be permanent. If you can find material that is similar I would make a new one. Since there is no tension on the guard anything will work to clamp. If you have a clamp that will go thru the sound hold and put a caul on the guard it shouldn't take a lot of pressure, especially with a new, flat guard.
    THE WORLD IS A BETTER PLACE JUST FOR YOUR SMILE!

  4. The following members say thank you to pops1 for this post:


  5. #4
    Registered User
    Join Date
    May 2020
    Location
    SoCal
    Posts
    24

    Default Re: Pickguard Reset on Weymann Bowlback

    I got self adhesive new material but aesthetically really doesn't work for me.
    Plus its a tough pattern to match. So I might abandon that idea.
    It might be nice to find a celluloid that doesn't have self stick and could be relic'd. Any thoughts?

    So Might go with the original pickguard, Thinking liquid hide glue for attaching, what do you think?

  6. #5
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Mar 2013
    Location
    Brooklyn, NY, USA
    Posts
    970

    Default Re: Pickguard Reset on Weymann Bowlback

    I would not use direct heat. If this is a celluloid pickguard, they are very flammable. Steam may work

  7. The following members say thank you to Nevin for this post:

    JL277z 

  8. #6

    Default Re: Pickguard Reset on Weymann Bowlback

    Nevin’s correct, the ignition point of even fresh celluloid is very low, and a 100 year old pickguard has curled because it has changed it’s composition over time. This is why it may not flatten like a thermoplastic. However, contact with moist heat happens to be dangerous too. The gases that evolve (in this case, under the pick guard) are explosive.
    I researched this when I had exactly the same issue, a curled glued-on pick guard. I went with new vinyl, but also tested the removed celluloid on a hot plate with an accurate surface thermometer (not the best arrangement, but good enough). The old material, in open air, did not ignite at very low temperature, but was nearly explosive when it did go. If the vapors had been trapped, it could have gone off well below the temperature of boiling water. That’s why old movie film in sealed cans can detonate at room temperature - the vapor is trapped.
    Back in the heyday of this stuff, there were reports of women’s decorative hair combs igniting from the radiant heat of stoves! On their heads!
    If you feel lucky as Clint said, a dry chemical extinguisher is the right tool, not water, and you’d have to be very quick!

  9. The Following 4 Users Say Thank You to Richard500 For This Useful Post:


  10. #7
    Teacher, luthier
    Join Date
    Oct 2017
    Location
    Southeast Tennessee
    Posts
    1,754

    Default Re: Pickguard Reset on Weymann Bowlback

    If the original pickguard shows significant signs of deterioration, I would avoid re-using it.
    I have not found a satisfactory method for flattening old celluloid.

    If you will give the dimensions of the maximum length and width of the pickguard, I may have a scrap piece of modern celluloid that is large enough to fit.
    Or you can order modern non-celluloid material from Stew-mac or LMI. Real celluloid is available from Axiom Inc. and LMI, but there is a stiff hazardous materials surcharge that accompanies the shipping costs.

    Liquid hide glue might hold a guard down for a while. Roughening the gluing surface of the plastic might help. But I would not expect it to stay down permanently.
    Hot hide glue might hold longer if you can get it clamped quickly enough.
    The problem with fixing pickguards to older instruments is that the best adhesives for fixing plastics to bare wood are all invasive to finishes.

    I have had some success with Wilson Art melamine glue for fixing plastics to wood. It will not damage the finish. But it is not proven in lutherie, so I cannot guarantee it. It is used in some cabinet shops. If you want to give it a try and you know a local cabinet maker who uses it, perhaps he will pour off an ounce of it for you to try.

    Other alternatives are to seal the gluing surface of the top with shellac and use the 3M double sided adhesive that is commonly used for fixing pickguards to a finished top, or to leave the wood surface bare, mask off the perimeter of the pickguard cavity very well and use a contact cement such as Weldwood. If you choose that, it wouldn't hurt to mask off the face of the pickguard also.

  11. The following members say thank you to rcc56 for this post:


  12. #8
    Moderator MikeEdgerton's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    40.1646 N, 74.2083 W
    Posts
    23,701

    Default Re: Pickguard Reset on Weymann Bowlback

    Use the guard to make a cardboard template and make sure it fits the top of the mandolin. Then get rid of that original guard safely. Don't store it in your house or garage. Follow rcc56's advise about the replacement material.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qJhybGdAyrQ
    "Bargain instruments are no bargains if you can't play them". These are the words of J. Garber.

  13. The following members say thank you to MikeEdgerton for this post:


  14. #9
    Registered User
    Join Date
    May 2020
    Location
    SoCal
    Posts
    24

    Default Re: Pickguard Reset on Weymann Bowlback

    I had no idea that celluloid is that flammable.
    What keeps it safe on our older vintage instruments? I have some.

    The color and patina of the original is very appealing to me, I would like to make it work if possible.
    Hazardous fee on real celluloid is $35 so its really prohibitive for me
    The modern material I sourced doesn't really work with the wood and metal patina of the instrument.
    Maybe I'll keep looking

    I did figure out how to safely flatten the original (at least I hope its safe).
    I wet the celluloid which activates the residue glue on the back.
    Then I clamp between two pieces of wood in a vise.
    Flat as a pancake and lifts off with a light scrape. I'm storing this way until I'm ready to use it.

    The orig guard has a very slight shrinkage and of course the center split which now, after the repair, shows clean wood
    I think I will amber varnish the exposed wood to help hide the flaw.
    Except for the fire hazard (unbelievable) it will fit the look.

  15. #10
    Teacher, luthier
    Join Date
    Oct 2017
    Location
    Southeast Tennessee
    Posts
    1,754

    Default Re: Pickguard Reset on Weymann Bowlback

    Celluloid has always been flammable. It is neither any more nor any less flammable than it was 100 years ago. When it gets old, it may become more flammable. Celluloid that was sealed with finish at the time of assembly seems to be less susceptible to deterioration.

    Lacquer and varnish are also flammable, as well as most other plastics.

    The haz-mat fee was instituted after 9-11. A host of changes were made to shipping regulations starting at that time.
    Last edited by rcc56; Jun-28-2020 at 12:47am.

  16. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to rcc56 For This Useful Post:


  17. #11
    Registered User
    Join Date
    May 2020
    Location
    SoCal
    Posts
    24

    Default Re: Pickguard Reset on Weymann Bowlback

    Will liquid hide glue adhere the celluloid (and other wood) to some varnish and superglue spots? Or does it need to be totally bare wood?
    I have a little of this on the surface, varnish used to color the edges, superglue used smooth the surface.
    The surface is mostly bare wood
    Last edited by scstill; Jul-04-2020 at 9:03pm.

  18. #12
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    S.W. Wisconsin
    Posts
    5,573

    Default Re: Pickguard Reset on Weymann Bowlback

    It was most likely hide glue to begin with, tho it was probably glued to the wood. Since it is not under any stress really it should be fine.
    THE WORLD IS A BETTER PLACE JUST FOR YOUR SMILE!

  19. The following members say thank you to pops1 for this post:


Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •