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Thread: Are All Lloyd Loars Dropping In Price?

  1. #51
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    Default Re: Are All Lloyd Loars Dropping In Price?

    Quote Originally Posted by JonZ View Post
    So Thiele got a Genius Award and spent it on an overpriced mandolin?!��
    That's pretty funny!! In fact he has two of them right?
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    Default Re: Are All Lloyd Loars Dropping In Price?

    Isn't it also possible that the accumulated last 10 years of high-end mandolin building has put downward pressure on Loar prices since their height? To name just one of a handful of builders, almost 200 Gilchrist instruments have been made since then (granted, not all of them Model 5s). Point being, there are a lot of great alternatives at 15% of the cost of a Loar that get most players (ruling out collectors, of course) at least 75% of the way there.

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    Default Re: Are All Lloyd Loars Dropping In Price?

    Quote Originally Posted by Doug Freeman View Post
    Isn't it also possible that the accumulated last 10 years of high-end mandolin building has put downward pressure on Loar prices since their height? To name just one of a handful of builders, almost 200 Gilchrist instruments have been made since then (granted, not all of them Model 5s). Point being, there are a lot of great alternatives at 15% of the cost of a Loar that get most players (ruling out collectors, of course) at least 75% of the way there.
    OTOH the fact that very high end modern violin makers are producing instruments so good that in blind test they cannot be distinguished from a Stradivarius has not put a dent in the prices of these 300+ year-old masterworks?
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    Default Re: Are All Lloyd Loars Dropping In Price?

    Quote Originally Posted by SWS View Post
    The refinish was done in ‘36 and it looks like a beautiful mandolin. I never would have guessed a refinish would have such an impact on price.
    Yes, I was always under the impression that a refinished instrument is worth half of full value-that's what I was taught anyway, so even at 90K its pretty deep right? So if it wasn't refinished would it sell for 180K? I highly doubt it! It is a Gibson refinish though, and that Loar does sound mighty fine as there is a youtube video of it out there but its also is going through a mic. It would sell at 40-50 I'd think right now if someone was looking seriously at it.

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    Default Re: Are All Lloyd Loars Dropping In Price?

    I liken the Lloyd Loars to paintings by the Old Masters. You know they are old, you know the artist, there are only so many of them, and they hold a lot of meaning in the art world. Sure, you can get a contemporary painting that is technically just as good looking, in the same artistic style, but in your/our minds it just isn't the same. Thinking makes it so, one way or the other....
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    Default Re: Are All Lloyd Loars Dropping In Price?

    When generations move along, and future generations come into play, and don't have label envy, prices will drop like a rock.
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    Default Re: Are All Lloyd Loars Dropping In Price?

    Quote Originally Posted by J Mangio View Post
    When generations move along, and future generations come into play, and don't have label envy, prices will drop like a rock.
    Why would that be so? It has been at least 2 generations already since the first Gibson Loar signed F-5s were made in 1922. The prices did not drop like a rock they have gone up dramatically -- although they have fluctuated. Likewise, in over 300 years the prices of Stradivarius and Guarneri violins, violas, and cellos have done nothing but increase in price, selling now for millions not thousands. I would guess that there is zero chance that Loar signed F-5s prices will "drop like a rock". Won't ever be anymore made and that is what assures their value.
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    Default Re: Are All Lloyd Loars Dropping In Price?

    Quote Originally Posted by William Smith View Post
    Yes, I was always under the impression that a refinished instrument is worth half of full value-that's what I was taught anyway, so even at 90K its pretty deep right? So if it wasn't refinished would it sell for 180K? I highly doubt it! It is a Gibson refinish though, and that Loar does sound mighty fine as there is a youtube video of it out there but its also is going through a mic. It would sell at 40-50 I'd think right now if someone was looking seriously at it.
    That is another thing. Almost every old classic violin from the 1700s has been taken apart and worked over numerous times and the value keeps going up anyway -- not sure why repairs to a mandolin are considered so value detracting?
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    Default Re: Are All Lloyd Loars Dropping In Price?

    Quote Originally Posted by Bernie Daniel View Post
    Why would that be so? It has been at least 2 generations already since the first Gibson Loar signed F-5s were made in 1922. The prices did not drop like a rock they have gone up dramatically -- although they have fluctuated. Likewise, in over 300 years the prices of Stradivarius and Guarneri violins, violas, and cellos have done nothing but increase in price, selling now for millions not thousands. I would guess that there is zero chance that Loar signed F-5s prices will "drop like a rock". Won't ever be anymore made and that is what assures their value.
    Two generation may mean nothing in a novelty market, maybe a money thing, could be the novelty will have worn off.
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    Default Re: Are All Lloyd Loars Dropping In Price?

    I think it's more about the age of the owners, and their desire to retire, rather than playing a particular year or model of mandolin. I know a couple of folks who sold off whole collections as they downsized their residences in preparation of retirement, and all very quietly.

    Right now, what I think you are seeing is people trying to keep ahead of the resale price curve. Unfortunately, there are so many of them now that it has caught peoples' attention.
    There's nothing better than first-hand experience.

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    Default Re: Are All Lloyd Loars Dropping In Price?

    Quote Originally Posted by Bernie Daniel View Post
    OTOH the fact that very high end modern violin makers are producing instruments so good that in blind test they cannot be distinguished from a Stradivarius has not put a dent in the prices of these 300+ year-old masterworks?
    True that. Plus there are predecessors and contemporaries of Stradivari whose instruments have always held or increased in value in relation to Stradivari. In Loar's case there were NO predecessor or contemporary F model mandolins. By that standard Loars are even more singular.

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    Default Re: Are All Lloyd Loars Dropping In Price?

    Quote Originally Posted by Bernie Daniel View Post
    OTOH the fact that very high end modern violin makers are producing instruments so good that in blind test they cannot be distinguished from a Stradivarius has not put a dent in the prices of these 300+ year-old masterworks?
    Not according to that family in NYC that had the Strad name trademarked. However, they have cultivated a group of buyers, mostly hedge fund managers who have the cash (or had the cash) for such things (some can even play violin). Strad prices do come down, at times. I know someone who in 2002 bought one, known as the Sleeping Beauty Stradivarious for just under $1 million. Last I heard it was valued at around 7 or 8 times that (maybe more). It was out on tour until the recent shut down with a young soloist. The instrument is "owned" and managed by a consortium that he put together. He had a copy made (for around $15k) that he plays himself. When he told me that I had to laugh. The copy, from what a mutual friend told me, is very good, and has almost the same voice as the Strad. Perhaps in a few hundred years it may sound even better than it's namesake.

    While he is a pretty good mandolin player, and has a collection of Monteleone family instruments, he has never showed any interest in Loars to my knowledge. People have been buying violins as investments for eons. Lots of bonded brokers, appraisers, etc. You just don't see the same level of activity with mandolins or even guitars.

    With all the numbers I am hearing from various sources, I am not sure we will see $180k on a Loar resale any time soon. I think that there are just too many of them for sale right now, and it appears the pool may be growing.
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    Default Re: Are All Lloyd Loars Dropping In Price?

    Well I've said it before and I'll say it again, Loar signed F-5's, and all the other Loar family of instruments are the first of basically the greatness of stringed instrument building since the famed violin family instruments of the "Golden Age"! They will always be desired because of what they are and I've never seen a bad Loar signed F-5 in looks or sound. All have a very unique presence I think and I'm positive others would agree to that if they've seen and played a bunch of them, heck even a few!

    Maybe prices are down a bit but that's the way it goes with these things, I'm sure if humanity lasts a few hundred years from now the sky will be the limit "in price" with these fantastic instruments as they are the FIRST of way too many that have been produced since then. As I mentioned to another Loar Hunter "buy this if you can, life here is short, so enjoy it".

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    Default Re: Are All Lloyd Loars Dropping In Price?

    Quote Originally Posted by William Smith View Post
    Well I've said it before and I'll say it again, Loar signed F-5's, and all the other Loar family of instruments are the first of basically the greatness of stringed instrument building since the famed violin family instruments of the "Golden Age"! They will always be desired because of what they are and I've never seen a bad Loar signed F-5 in looks or sound. All have a very unique presence I think and I'm positive others would agree to that if they've seen and played a bunch of them, heck even a few!

    Maybe prices are down a bit but that's the way it goes with these things, I'm sure if humanity lasts a few hundred years from now the sky will be the limit "in price" with these fantastic instruments as they are the FIRST of way too many that have been produced since then. As I mentioned to another Loar Hunter "buy this if you can, life here is short, so enjoy it".
    Personally, I don't think the human race will be here even 100 years from now. So go ahead... buy or sell your signed Lloyd Loar F5 while there's still time!
    Last edited by Glassweb; May-16-2020 at 12:26pm.

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    Default Re: Are All Lloyd Loars Dropping In Price?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mandobar View Post
    ...that family in NYC that had the Strad name trademarked.
    Curious about that. Got a reference for it?

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    Default Re: Are All Lloyd Loars Dropping In Price?

    Quote Originally Posted by Glassweb View Post
    Personally, I don't think the human race will be here even 100 years from now. So go ahead... buy or sell your signed Lloyd Loar F5 while there's still time!
    Humans won't be here in 100 years. I hate to also be pessimistic but I have to say the odds on that statement are more likely to be TRUE than false. If any of you are also interested in human evolution, anthropology and history I strongly suggest reading Sapiens by Yuval Noah Harari -- it will make you think hard about how WISE our highly intelligent species really is.

    I also agree unless/until the world ends the price of a Loar signed F-5 is ALWAYS going to be significant.
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    Default Re: Are All Lloyd Loars Dropping In Price?

    Quote Originally Posted by J Mangio View Post
    When generations move along, and future generations come into play, and don't have label envy, prices will drop like a rock.
    Why on earth would future generations not have label envy?
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    Default Re: Are All Lloyd Loars Dropping In Price?

    Prolly put their money into a more lucrative purchase, and choose a great mando for much less money.
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    Default Re: Are All Lloyd Loars Dropping In Price?

    Quote Originally Posted by Doug Freeman View Post
    Curious about that. Got a reference for it?
    In the documentary Highly Strung, which is about the Australian String Quartet and the search by their patron to select instruments to be used by the quartet, there is a segment on the Carpenters, who broker Stradivarius instruments, as jet setters, society personalities, etc. They talk about having Strad clothing manufactured with their labeling, and a variety of other high end items. I want to say shoes were one of the things they’d designed as part of their line. Personally, I think it degrades the instruments, but it is their “brand”, or so they say.

    The trademark is for the term Strad, not Stradivarius (which is trademarked to a non-profit. Watch the documentary. I believe it is still on Netflix. The Carpenters makrket their instruments to investors, mostly hedge fund managers, which is also well-documented in the film.
    There's nothing better than first-hand experience.

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    Default Re: Are All Lloyd Loars Dropping In Price?

    Quote Originally Posted by J Mangio View Post
    Prolly put their money into a more lucrative purchase, and choose a great mando for much less money.
    Very little chance of that IMO. And really what reason is there to expect it? Look at old violins.

    Besides even now MANY people do choose to buy great mandolins for less money but some people (even the SAME people sometimes) also still choose Loar-signed F-5s and that is the way it will most likely always be.
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    Default Re: Are All Lloyd Loars Dropping In Price?

    Quote Originally Posted by Bernie Daniel View Post
    That is another thing. Almost every old classic violin from the 1700s has been taken apart and worked over numerous times and the value keeps going up anyway -- not sure why repairs to a mandolin are considered so value detracting?

    HI Bernie,
    Violins are designed to be taken apart for repairs. Thats why all violin luthiers use hide glue. Also, its been going on so long it is now considered acceptable. Mandolins,on the other hand, are NOT designed to be taken apart (same for guitars). Disasssembly will almost always result in visible repairs.

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    Default Re: Are All Lloyd Loars Dropping In Price?

    I just watched a few videos that were in the highlight section of the Gibson ,C Derrington restoration. I give a whole new outlook on those Loars. They were neat to watch. And a very good learning tool for me. I dont know enough to criticize but it sure gave me more insight on why they are that good.

    I hope they stay there coarse and through time appreciate as they should.

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    Default Re: Are All Lloyd Loars Dropping In Price?

    Being part of the ‘next generation’ of normal pickers/buyers, I would look forward to the day when Loar’s could be had for around $20k, but I don’t think it’ll ever happen unless something Earth shaking happens. I’d love to have a ‘35 D-28 and a Loar, and if I had millions of $ I would buy one. The holy grail instruments will still be holy grail instruments 30 years from now IMO. I also believe that there are some modern traditionalist builders who can get close to the holy grail sounds, so close that I do believe the desirability for the the original will decrease some in future, but never completely. Nothing beats the originals when it comes down to it. I doubt loars will ever drop below 50k in the next 50 years, unless of course the global economy spirals into a more serious decline in the future.

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    Default Re: Are All Lloyd Loars Dropping In Price?

    If I were to take a Loar, a Gilchrist, a Heiden, a Kimble, a Dude, a Nugget, a Northfield Artist Model and let's say... a Duff... all F5s... and lock you up in a room with them for a couple of hours... well, I'd say you'd come out a very confused camper! I know I would...

    Sure, a Loar is a Loar... but

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    Default Re: Are All Lloyd Loars Dropping In Price?

    Quote Originally Posted by Glassweb View Post
    If I were to take a Loar, a Gilchrist, a Heiden, a Kimble, a Dude, a Nugget, a Northfield Artist Model and let's say... a Duff... all F5s... and lock you up in a room with them for a couple of hours... well, I'd say you'd come out a very confused camper! I know I would...
    Maybe I just wouldn't come out!
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