Need help identifying and valuing inherited old bowlback mandolin

[myersmoenky]

I need help identifying this old bowlback mandolin I inherited from my late father. And also, a general idea of value. Thanks

[Jim Garber]

It looks like some variant of the mid-range Lyon & Healy mandolins often labelled American Conservatory. L&H made lots of mandolins in th4 teens of the last century often selling them wholesale to music stores who would put their own labels on them. I the attached catalog page yors might be closest to 607 or 608. Not exactly but close enough.

I can't tell if there is a crack or just a mark on the back of the neck in photo 3. This is a nice bowlback mandolin. If it doesn't need any work to make it playable (other than new strings (buy extra lights GHSA240 are the budget brand to get) then it might be worth $150-300.

[allenhopkins]

Concur with Jim G's analysis. It has a large number of rosewood ribs in the bowl, usually an indication of a higher-end instrument, but the plate over the tuners is not engraved, the binding and neck position indicators are not ornate, and it's probably missing a tailpiece cover.

Seems to be in quite good shape, if in fact the "V" in the back of the neck is just a pattern in the wood, and not a crack. Is there a case? I have a fairly ornate Lyon & Healy-built bowl-back, labeled "B & J Victoria," that came in a green felt bag, which was not uncommon more than a century ago.

[myersmoenky]

Thank you very much! I added another picture of the back of the neck. It is not a crack. It is smooth

[myersmoenky]

allenhopkins Thank you. I found it in my dad's closet just as pictured. There is no case or bag Can you recommend a reputable place/website where I would be able to sell it, Like on this site? And can I use what you two have told me? as I do not know anything about it other than what you two kind people have told me? much appreciated

[brunello97]

Concur with Jim G's analysis. It has a large number of rosewood ribs in the bowl, usually an indication of a higher-end instrument, but .....

This looks like a pretty certain case of the L+H J-AT of making one rib look like two (or even three) by inserting thin strips of white stuff (proto-plastic?) into grooves in a single rib. The rosewood color / grain pattern spanning across "ribs" is usually a tell-tale sign, along with the ultra small tapers where the ribs meet the neck.

By no means the sign of an inferior mandolin, just adding a caveat to the accepted shibboleth on ribs v quality of build. Apparently Allen's measure was considered bona fide a hundred years ago, hence the Chicago slight of hand....which still took a bit of work to pull off.

But the lack of added appointments that Allen points out seems consistent with a mandolin with 1/2 to 1/3 the number of ribs it appears to have.

The action on this looks un po' sketchioso, (see photo 1) but might be made payable with some bridge / nut work.

I'd move it to the bottom of Jim's sliding scale.

If rendered playable at that price, I'd call that a bargain. Not the best I've ever had , but a good one nonetheless.

Mick

[allenhopkins]

allenhopkins Thank you. I found it in my dad's closet just as pictured. There is no case or bag Can you recommend a reputable place/website where I would be able to sell it, Like on this site? And can I use what you two have told me? as I do not know anything about it other than what you two kind people have told me? much appreciated

Yes, the Cafe classified ads are a great marketplace for mandolins of all sorts. I have no objection to being quoted -- for whatever that's worth; can't speak for Jim G or Mick. Remember, we're basing our "analysis" on a few pics on-line; if you want a more valid appraisal, find a dealer who handles vintage stringed instruments (not always easy to find!) and get a "hands-on" inspection.

And, I found my bowl-back in my late grandfather's attic, when we were cleaning out his house to be sold. There were scads of these around a century or so ago.

[Jim Garber]

And, I found my bowl-back in my late grandfather's attic, when we were cleaning out his house to be sold. There were scads of these around a century or so ago.

And I found quite a few bowlbacks in my own closet. I have no idea how they got there.

[brunello97]

And I found quite a few bowlbacks in my own closet. I have no idea how they got there.

Like Quasimodo said "I've got a hunch....."

Mick

[August Watters]

Sorry to be agreeing with these guys ( ), but in addition to their comments, I'd point out that there are two marks on the back of neck, not just the one. And although it's difficult to tell from photos, it appears that these may be old repairs, as if the neck and headstock were broken off at some point, and reglued. If so the repairs appear to have been well done, but not a good sign. And there's something wrong with the string spacing; it's as if someone put on a replacement bridge that's too wide, and the G strings are falling off of the fingerboard. This needs to be evaluated by a good technician; I don't think we're going to really evaluate the problem via photos.

On the bright side, this is basically a good-quality instrument, and it belonged to your dad so there's a certain amount of sentimental value. The restoration will cost more than the market value, but OTOH it's a nice old piece and deserves respect. If it was me, I'd save it for the next generation, with or without restoration.

[myersmoenky]

Thanks everyone. We just want to sell it to put towards buying my dad's grave marker. I'll take whatever I can get for it. Much appreciated!

[JeffD]

Did you find any sheet music with the mandolin? Did your dad play in an orchestra or a group of some kind? There are many, including myself, who would be interested in the sheet music. Also any old pictures of whatever group your dad might have played with. Posed formal orchestra pics or whatever, especially showing that mandolin among the group.

[myersmoenky]

Sorry JeffD, No there wasn't anything with it. It actually belonged to my great grandfather, my dad's grandpa. I wish there were more items that came with it!

[MikeEdgerton]

This looks like a pretty certain case of the L+H J-AT of making one rib look like two (or even three) by inserting thin strips of white stuff (proto-plastic?) into grooves in a single rib. The rosewood color / grain pattern spanning across "ribs" is usually a tell-tale sign, along with the ultra small tapers where the ribs meet the neck....

I'm kind of thinking that maybe there are more than three or four there. You could be looking at maybe 7 stays made to look like 40. You've mentioned this in the past and I've never really payed a whole lot of attention to it but it's pretty evident. I wonder if they smoothed out the inside as much as they did the outside?