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Thread: Know You Rider

  1. #1

    Default Know You Rider

    House arrest has its pleasures.

    Listened to Seldom Scene's "Live at the Cellar Door" last night. It's finale is "Know You Rider," a rock/folk/blues/bluegrass staple that features some mighty mando shredding.

    So there was nothing I could do but turn off the stereo, whip out my trusty Red Line, and have at it.

    At this rate, I might just never leave the house again.

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  3. #2
    Registered User William Smith's Avatar
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    Default Re: Know You Rider

    Check out youtube-There is a killer video version of Duffey and the Scene at the Opry doing Rider! Awesome stuff right there and if your a fan of Big John like I am there is a guy TAKE' that has loads of great recordings of early Country Gents at clubs and Seldom Scene live at different festivals-hours of mighty fine music! He has loads of other great obscure and rare recordings of all the greats! Has some live shows of Cliff Waldron and the New Shades of grass from 1972 with my Uncle Gene Johnson on his Loar and tenor, he also signs a song my gramps wrote "By the River" Awesome stuff!

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  5. #3
    Registered User Ranald's Avatar
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    Default Re: Know You Rider

    Thanks. I really enjoyed that. Here's "Rider," clearly a blues song with a bluegrass accent, with some mighty mandolin playing.
    If the links don't work, search YouTube for "The Seldom Scene 1979 - Rider".

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nk9vhhGyRyo

    Robert Johnson's mother, describing blues musicians:
    "I never did have no trouble with him until he got big enough to be round with bigger boys and off from home. Then he used to follow all these harp blowers, mandoleen (sic) and guitar players."
    Lomax, Alan, The Land where The Blues Began, NY: Pantheon, 1993, p.14.

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  7. #4

    Default Re: Know You Rider

    Here's "Rider," clearly a blues song with a bluegrass accent,
    It is usually labeled "Traditional" but it appears to have been put together by an urban folkie in the mid 1950s or early 1960s from standard blues bits. I do not recall his name, he was never really prominent. This seems to be the oldest recorded version by Joan Baez in 1960.


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    Notary Sojac Paul Kotapish's Avatar
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    Default Re: Know You Rider

    Quote Originally Posted by CarlM View Post
    It is usually labeled "Traditional" but it appears to have been put together by an urban folkie in the mid 1950s or early 1960s from standard blues bits. I do not recall his name, he was never really prominent. This seems to be the oldest recorded version by Joan Baez in 1960.
    The folkie's name was Bob Coltman, and he apparently based his version on a John and Alan Lomax transcription of a blues.

    There's a pretty good history of the song here.
    Just one guy's opinion
    www.guitarfish.net

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  11. #6

    Default Re: Know You Rider

    Quote Originally Posted by William Smith View Post
    Check out youtube-There is a killer video version of Duffey and the Scene at the Opry doing Rider! Awesome stuff right there and if your a fan of Big John like I am there is a guy TAKE' that has loads of great recordings of early Country Gents at clubs and Seldom Scene live at different festivals-hours of mighty fine music! He has loads of other great obscure and rare recordings of all the greats! Has some live shows of Cliff Waldron and the New Shades of grass from 1972 with my Uncle Gene Johnson on his Loar and tenor, he also signs a song my gramps wrote "By the River" Awesome stuff!
    Thanks!

    My Seldom god was Mike A. Saw them in the seventies in New Haven, and his "House of the Rising Sun" solo induced mass involuntary levitation. I can still hear it. In fact, that's why I (eventually) got a dobro.

  12. #7

    Default Re: Know You Rider

    Quote Originally Posted by Ranald View Post
    Thanks. I really enjoyed that. Here's "Rider," clearly a blues song with a bluegrass accent, with some mighty mandolin playing.
    If the links don't work, search YouTube for "The Seldom Scene 1979 - Rider".

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nk9vhhGyRyo

    Thanks! I needed that! Think I'll head down to the basement tonight and whup out the ol' doby!

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  14. #8
    Registered User Chris "Bucket" Thomas's Avatar
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    Default Re: Know You Rider

    There is an mp3 file of Bill Monroe playing with the Seldom Scene and playing it too. Let me dig.
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  16. #9
    Registered User Chris "Bucket" Thomas's Avatar
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  18. #10

    Default Re: Know You Rider

    Quote Originally Posted by CarlM View Post
    It is usually labeled "Traditional" but it appears to have been put together by an urban folkie in the mid 1950s or early 1960s from standard blues bits. I do not recall his name, he was never really prominent. This seems to be the oldest recorded version by Joan Baez in 1960.
    I think it was the Lomaxes who patched a bunch of things together in the thirties, starting with a verse by a woman on death row. They called it "Woman Blue."

    Here's another nice version:


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  20. #11
    mandolin slinger Steve Ostrander's Avatar
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    Default Re: Know You Rider

    Also the Grateful Dead did an electric version on Live in Europe ‘72.

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  22. #12
    Registered User jefflester's Avatar
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    Default Re: Know You Rider

    Quote Originally Posted by Steve Ostrander View Post
    Also the Grateful Dead did an electric version on Live in Europe ‘72.
    One of the most played songs over the course of the GD career. Usually a segue out of China Cat Sunflower, they did do some acoustic versions in 1970. Interestingly they did the acoustic and electric versions concurrently for a period, one show might feature it during the acoustic set, the next show in electric form with China Cat. For instance on May 15, 1970 at the Fillmore East the early show of the night featured a long (8min) slow acoustic version and the late show the more familiar electric version.

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  24. #13

    Default Re: Know You Rider

    Quote Originally Posted by Steve Ostrander View Post
    Also the Grateful Dead did an electric version on Live in Europe ‘72.
    Always worth a mention! Yes, that has to be the most listened-to version of the song. The other band whose version reached a (relatively) mass audience was Hot Tuna.

    It shows up on a lot of Dead albums. Two other cuts that I love are the sixties version on Vintage Dead, with Pigpen playing a wheedly Farfisa organ riff thing all the way through it — fun stuff! — and the cut on the skeleton album that starts with "Not Fade Away."

    (They liked to end medleys with it because it's fun to play and a crowd-pleaser. After a while, I think they settled into following "China Cat Sunflower" with it. But I had kind of broken out of the Dead loop by the mid-seventies, so don't quote me.)

    The Scene's recording on Live From the Cellar Door matters in these parts just because (a) it's great and (b) it has that jaw-dropping mando solo.

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  26. #14
    Registered User jefflester's Avatar
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    Default Re: Know You Rider

    Quote Originally Posted by Charlie Bernstein View Post
    — and the cut on the skeleton album that starts with "Not Fade Away."
    That's "Going Down the Road Feeling Bad."

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  28. #15

    Default Re: Know You Rider

    Quote Originally Posted by jefflester View Post
    . . . For instance on May 15, 1970 at the Fillmore East the early show of the night featured a long (8min) slow acoustic version and the late show the more familiar electric version.
    I might have been at that late show. I know I caught them there in early '70.

    Those guys were so much fun. It would be light out by the time the show was over.

  29. #16

    Default Re: Know You Rider

    Quote Originally Posted by jefflester View Post
    That's "Going Down the Road Feeling Bad."
    Ow! You got me. I sit corrected — and lie like a toupee . . . .

  30. #17
    Registered User Steve 2E's Avatar
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    Default Re: Know You Rider

    Quote Originally Posted by Charlie Bernstein View Post
    Ow! You got me. I sit corrected — and lie like a toupee . . . .
    I for one forgive you Charlie. I saw the Dead do China>Rider a bunch in the 80’s and 90’s, but I can’t even lie about seeing them in 1970. I was born in 71!

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  32. #18

    Default Re: Know You Rider

    Quote Originally Posted by DoubleE View Post
    I for one forgive you Charlie. I saw the Dead do China>Rider a bunch in the 80’s and 90’s, but I can’t even lie about seeing them in 1970. I was born in 71!
    Most of my Dead shows were in the early seventies. You would've loved 'em. Mostly stopped going when the crowds got too big.

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  34. #19
    Registered User Steve 2E's Avatar
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    Default Re: Know You Rider

    Quote Originally Posted by Charlie Bernstein View Post
    Most of my Dead shows were in the early seventies. You would've loved 'em. Mostly stopped going when the crowds got too big.
    Ahhh, yes! The Goodle Days! I can remember being in high school and watching the GD movie and thinking how cool it must’ve been to see them at Winterland and all of the small venues they played in the early days. I grew up on arena rock, so seeing them in large venues was pretty standard and just the way it was.

    Anyway, back to the OP. Love the Seldom Scene version and the Judy Roderic version is probably one of my favorites of anyone’s. Although I always liked Tuna’s version a lot too. My favorite Dead acoustic version is from 5/2/70(Dick’s Picks Vol. 8). There are far too many electric versions to choose from!

    Thanks for starting this thread! This a great tune that I never get tired of hearing or playing!

  35. #20

    Default Re: Know You Rider

    Quote Originally Posted by jefflester View Post
    That's "Going Down the Road Feeling Bad."
    Yep. See #16 and #18.

  36. #21
    String-Bending Heretic mandocrucian's Avatar
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    Default Re: Know You Rider

    The Dead renditions of "I Know You Rider" and "Going Down The Road Feeling Bad" were/are a great source for getting a handle on Garcia's phrasing and style. And with all the live shows now out... almost every one was different, providing an endless supply of variations. If you have that stuff, you could easily burn yourself a full CD of different takes of just those two songs to listen to in the car and let it all seep deep inside your brain. "Bertha" was also another of those tracks, and if they were hot, those 'show' versions could be better than those on the official records.

    If you are a notation reader, both "Rider" and "Goin' Down The Road" are transcribed in Grateful Dead: Authentic guitar classics Vol.2 (Warner Bros). And, (this is important guys) the rhythm/2nd guitar parts have also been transcribed....which you definitely want if you are going to mess with "China Cat Sunflower".

    Checking Amazon, it seems that book is OOP. But "Rider" is in
    Grateful-Dead-Guitar-Anthology

    Don't know if any of you have my Bluegrass Up The Neck book/disc, but the "Lonesome Road Blues" ("Going Down The Road") in it is, I think, quite Garcia-esque. It's in G rather than E, but I was definitely going for a Dead feel. For me, it's the only sound that feels "right'. on that tune. (OTOH, for something like "I Am A Pilgrim" or "Nine Pound Hammer".... some Clarence White is called for.)

    Here's something you may or may not be aware of. If you rip the tracks from a CD to your computer, you can alter the playback speed on the songs/files. Just dropping the speed down to 85% or 80% can make a big difference.

    NH

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  38. #22
    Registered User Erin M's Avatar
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    Default Re: Know You Rider

    GD's version of this tune is a LOT of fun to play around with. The changes are pretty simple (same as Morning Dew): D-C-G-D (x2), walk up to F-C-F-C-Em-D. GD also occasionally did a much slower acoustic version, but I can't find a link to it at the moment.

    I've always been fond of Joan Baez's version too: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sVxZfdPznZ8 - as an example of a totally different take on it.

    Edit: Steve 2E called it - the Dick’s Picks Vol. 8 version is one of the slower acoustic versions: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TwRbKI0Ys00
    "Flow, river flow. Let your waters wash down, take me from this road, to some other town." - Roger McGuinn

  39. #23
    Registered User Erin M's Avatar
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    Default Re: Know You Rider

    Quote Originally Posted by Charlie Bernstein View Post
    Most of my Dead shows were in the early seventies. You would've loved 'em. Mostly stopped going when the crowds got too big.
    You're very lucky. I so wish I could have been there; I wasn't even born yet. If there's any show I would love to have seen in person in its full glory, it'd be 6/24/70, second of two shows that day at Capitol Theatre (the one that starts with Not Fade Away). If you haven't heard this one, check out archive.org... or: http://www.deadlistening.com/2008/04...l-theatre.html
    Last edited by Erin M; Jul-29-2020 at 6:51pm.
    "Flow, river flow. Let your waters wash down, take me from this road, to some other town." - Roger McGuinn

  40. #24
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    Default Re: Know You Rider

    There's a nice version of just "...Rider" acoustic on Grateful Dad's "Dick's Pick's Volume 8" from Binghamton, 1970.

  41. #25
    two t's and one hyphen fatt-dad's Avatar
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    Default Re: Know You Rider

    who can tell me more about, "Wild geese in the west?" I think I got it!

    Great version of Rider. So dialed into the Seldom Scene from a very early age. Saw them a bunch of times in the '70s.

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