Chris Thile's fingerings for B minor Allemande (solo violin)

[Jake Howard]

Hey y'all,

I am working on a project for Bach's Sonatas and Partitas for Unaccompanied Violin in which I work up fingerings for each piece along with explanations on why I chose these fingerings. Part of the fun is researching what other mandolin players are doing. In this case, I just got done transcribing all of Thile's fingerings for the B minor Partita (Yes, it was A LOT of work. Particularly watching videos of him playing these pieces slowed down over and over and over and ov...)

Because of the state of the world and how some of us have some free time I thought I would share with you one of the pieces I just got done working on. I do have a request though. If you have any way of supporting musicians during these times please do. Myself along with many friends tour for a living and we are sort of at a standstill with our careers. So take a lesson, grab a CD or even just send them a message asking if there is anything you can do (if you want a list of people, click here) I also teach so if you are interested let me know. Alright, off of my horse and on to the music! Sorry for the layout, still working around Sibelius Ultimate and cant quite get it to do what I want yet.

[Mandophile]

Ah! The obstinacy of Sibelius! we commend your dedication to transcribing the fingering! It'll be worth it as I would think that Thile's arpeggio fluidity derives from efficiency in fingering. Could you say more about what you learned?

[Jake Howard]

Ah! The obstinacy of Sibelius! we commend your dedication to transcribing the fingering! It'll be worth it as I would think that Thile's arpeggio fluidity derives from efficiency in fingering. Could you say more about what you learned?

Right on about Sibelius, we're in a love/hate relationship.

There are a couple things I've learned specifically with this piece (and that show up throughout his thought process through all the other pieces). One is that he loves to use open notes to shift his hand position. The Allemanda might not be the best piece to show this use now that I think about it (you can see it near the end of measure 9 and measure 22). The Double for the Corrente has some really great examples of this because that piece is very quick and covers a lot of the fretboard. But in general if he has to go up or down the fingerboard he usually does so when an open string presents itself.

Another thing is the picking pattern for the triplets. He is always doing down-up-down for these passages and it makes the phrasing so much better (for examples look at measures 9, 13, 19, 22). I think one of the challenges of the Bach pieces on the mandolin is phrasing. As we know, the violin and mandolin have trade-offs when it comes to these pieces. Violins can use the bow to make these beautiful humanistic phrasings, giving some breathe to complete Bach's wonderful phrasings. But violins struggle with these big, four note chords. Mandolins on the other hand have a much easier time playing chordal pieces and we have frets that help us not worry about intonation as much. But we do sacrifice a bit with the ability to hold a note out or phrase something with the bow. I feel as though when Chris looked at tackling these pieces he looked more at keeping the time metronomic and flowing rather than going for these phrasing bits and pieces. For a great example of what I am talking about go check out the violinist Rachel Podger. She is somewhat of a slinky with the timing compared to Chris but she does so to facilitate this beautiful phrasing (and I think the bow is a big reason for this).



I will say, this is not a dig on Thile's performance of the Bach pieces. I do truly LOVE his versions and find that he took a lot of time figuring out how to lay them out on the mandolin. I think I enjoy his live performances a bit more than his CD because they have more of these phrasing characteristics in them.

Chris is more inclined to use more of the mandolin fretboard than a violinist would too. Playing some of these passages and skipping strings?! Violinist would scoff at this simply because it's a very mandolinist thing to do. We can easily skip strings while a bow has a harder time with it. He also is not afraid of using 3rd or 4th position while a violinist would be in 1st or 2nd position and then use a hand shift. Measure 9 is a great example of this, Chris just goes right on up the neck from the F#/C# double stop. This use of the fingerboard also allows him to do these 3 string sections (take a look at the very beginning of measure 24) that violinists wouldn't do. The reason Chris does this is to allow the notes he just played to sustain longer as he goes to the next notes. This allows the piece to have this very flowing quality where notes seem to not die immediately after being picked. This is all dandy and sounds great in some of the pieces that call for it (sometimes it hinders phrasings though!).

There are many more things I could pick out of all of this but this reply would get very long! One thing I would like to add, and the major lesson that I took away from this is that Thile's fingerings for these pieces work really well for him. He is successful with his goals of being super clean and metronomic (he still has phrasings, they are just more subtle!) because of his fingerings. He has thought long and hard about them. I will take his fingerings with a grain of salt though. I went down the path of trying to phrase things more like Rachel Podger and that has let to vastly different fingerings and different pick directions.

If you have any specific questions just let me know! Sorry for the long winded response. Now that touring has been cancelled for the next little while I have all this free time... Haha!

[Joe Bartl]

Jake Howard,

Great insights! Please write more. This is the kind of thing I need as I head for BWV 1001-1006. Can't think of anywhere else this kind of detail is spelled out. Thanks.

I first encountered this music about 45 years ago. Every note of this recording is burned into my soul:



One of the reasons I started on mandolin was in hopes of getting to 1004 someday (knowing I'd never make it on violin).

Joe

[Carl23]

Thanks for the analysis (especialy the thing about open strings)

I started another thread where fingering choices came up. I am just beginning to figure out my own, and am not quite ready to get into the analysis that you have done. So you made my life a bit easier today. :-)

I also started to dig into 3rd and 4th position, it is amazing how that can free things up. I'll have to look into how I can integrate open strings in those positions. It's a bit of a mental change, but one of my goals (just set that goal after reading your post)

Thanks again,

Carl