Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 25 of 30

Thread: Reduce costs pleased

  1. #1

    Default Reduce costs pleased

    I might get hammered for this, but I think it is worthy of putting out there. Collings had a 10% increase, others have increased. This may be a good time to reverse those, to keep this economy moving. I would venture to guess that people are going to be reluctant to spend resources now, especially optional ones, while the market is so unstable.

    So, I am just putting this out there. I would like everyone to stay in business as there is so much great mandolin making out there!

  2. #2

    Default Re: Reduce costs pleased

    If the price of mandolins is what the economy hinges on, we're in big trouble.

    In seriousness, I think there are going to be more instruments being offered up for sale on the used market because of economic issues, as is also common around tax time. This will surely put downward price pressure on used instruments. Retailers may need to move inventory to keep the doors open and may reduce prices as well. I don't expect that larger builders like Collings, Eastman, Kentucky, Gibson, will reduce the price on their wares, but might produce fewer instruments instead.

  3. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to stevojack665 For This Useful Post:


  4. #3

    Default Re: Reduce costs pleased

    You are likely correct. Perhaps some manufacturers who were thinking of increasing prices now or in the near future, will change their minds. I do think that people are going to be more careful with their funds.


    Quote Originally Posted by stevojack665 View Post
    If the price of mandolins is what the economy hinges on, we're in big trouble.

    In seriousness, I think there are going to be more instruments being offered up for sale on the used market because of economic issues, as is also common around tax time. This will surely put downward price pressure on used instruments. Retailers may need to move inventory to keep the doors open and may reduce prices as well. I don't expect that larger builders like Collings, Eastman, Kentucky, Gibson, will reduce the price on their wares, but might produce fewer instruments instead.

  5. #4

    Default Re: Reduce costs pleased

    Ditto for the Classifieds! Let's get those prices rolled back to spur things on. Especially that little beauty I've had my eyes on.

  6. #5

    Default Re: Reduce costs pleased

    Despite my fondness for mandolins, I would be more excited about this happening in the supermarket and the pharmacy, TBH.

  7. The Following 6 Users Say Thank You to OldSausage For This Useful Post:


  8. #6

    Default Re: Reduce costs pleased

    Don’t assume that companies sit back and just decide they want more money for their product. Costs of doing business increase over time, be they raw materials, rent, wages, taxes, marketing costs or even the cost of a NAMM both. It is easy for us to see a mandolin for sale at $6000 and think the company is getting rich off of us. There is way more to it than that. The 10% increase could very well be close to their profit margin. They, like virtually every other business is in for tough times. We as individuals are too.
    Silverangel A
    Arches F style kit
    1913 Gibson A-1

  9. The Following 4 Users Say Thank You to Br1ck For This Useful Post:


  10. #7
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Oct 2018
    Location
    New Jersey, USA
    Posts
    186

    Default Re: Reduce costs pleased

    Quote Originally Posted by ABmando View Post
    I might get hammered for this, but I think it is worthy of putting out there. Collings had a 10% increase, others have increased. This may be a good time to reverse those, to keep this economy moving. I would venture to guess that people are going to be reluctant to spend resources now, especially optional ones, while the market is so unstable.

    So, I am just putting this out there. I would like everyone to stay in business as there is so much great mandolin making out there!
    I recommend a 90% price cut on high-end mandolins. It's the right thing to do

  11. #8
    Registered User Tom C's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2002
    Location
    Warwick, NY
    Posts
    3,926

    Default Re: Reduce costs pleased

    Just move the decimal 1 space to the left.

  12. #9
    Administrator Mandolin Cafe's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 1998
    Location
    Lawrence, KS
    Posts
    2,282
    Blog Entries
    10

    Default Re: Reduce costs pleased

    The reason for the Collings price increase was widely communicated with their retailers and business partners, less so with consumers, but I saw plenty of evidence on the Forum here it got seen by many. They had not just reached a critical point where they were no longer paying their employees the living wage needed, they had been behind the curve for quite a few years. Living expenses in Austin, Texas and surrounding suburbs have risen faster than many parts of the country and they had not kept up. Part of this was also due in part to the nature of the founder of the company. It's no secret he was less interested in running a financially stable operation and far more interested in creating great products. It put a hard squeeze on them. It's also no secret the vintage cases they are selling at fairly steep prices are not a financially viable money maker. I looked today and they're sold out of all models, but what that means I have no idea other than they are not available at the moment. You don't go into the mandolin and guitar building business to make a lot of money. You do it because it's something you love and can be great at, maybe. Rolling back prices might be a conveniece for someone that has $5-10K or more and is in the market, but ignores the reality of the working men and women that make up their staff.

  13. The Following 17 Users Say Thank You to Mandolin Cafe For This Useful Post:

    + Show/Hide list of the thanked


  14. #10

    Default Re: Reduce costs pleased

    To be clear, I am not accusing the manufacturers of over pricing. It is a hard business. And they deserve everything they are trying to get. But the reality is that the vast majority of people are going to be tightening their wallets and it may be wise to figure out how to lower prices.

    I also do not mean to pick on Collings (no pun intended) which makes awesome mandos. And what I love about Collings is their consistency. It is a sad situation. But I do think the reality is also that people are going to look harder for used instrumnets. I want to see the mandolin business continue with a lot of competition.

    Quote Originally Posted by Br1ck View Post
    Don’t assume that companies sit back and just decide they want more money for their product. Costs of doing business increase over time, be they raw materials, rent, wages, taxes, marketing costs or even the cost of a NAMM both. It is easy for us to see a mandolin for sale at $6000 and think the company is getting rich off of us. There is way more to it than that. The 10% increase could very well be close to their profit margin. They, like virtually every other business is in for tough times. We as individuals are too.

  15. #11
    Registered User archerscreek's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2019
    Location
    Wisconsin
    Posts
    124

    Default Re: Reduce costs pleased

    I don't think manufacturers can afford to lower the prices at which they sell their products to the retailers. And the retailers are probably strapped in where they are as well.

    I also wouldn't be surprised if this is a temporary blip and things rally back up by the summer. So I doubt there's any need or room for price movement. Besides, I wouldn't be surprised if a fair number of high end musical instrument buyers took part in the recent market sell off and now have thousands of freed up dollars laying around in their accounts. Might as well use the gains to buy a new Collings or Gibson (or Martin, Bourgeois, Taylor, etc.) that'll give a person more pleasure in life than a pile of cash sitting in a bank.

    The only thing I'm certain about regarding my own future is that I'll enjoy playing my newish to me Gibson Alan Bibey vs playing my Eastman MD515, as nice as the Eastman is/was. For me, life is a lot better when I spend my free time making music vs reading horror stories online or watching cable news regardless of content. Haha. And for me the music is that much more enjoyable played on a nicer instrument.

  16. #12

    Default Re: Reduce costs pleased

    Interesting. Perhaps the moral of the story is: Invest in Mandolins! (and maybe Zoom and other on line conference entities.)


    Quote Originally Posted by archerscreek View Post
    I don't think manufacturers can afford to lower the prices at which they sell their products to the retailers. And the retailers are probably strapped in where they are as well.

    I also wouldn't be surprised if this is a temporary blip and things rally back up by the summer. So I doubt there's any need or room for price movement. Besides, I wouldn't be surprised if a fair number of high end musical instrument buyers took part in the recent market sell off and now have thousands of freed up dollars laying around in their accounts. Might as well use the gains to buy a new Collings or Gibson (or Martin, Bourgeois, Taylor, etc.) that'll give a person more pleasure in life than a pile of cash sitting in a bank.

    The only thing I'm certain about regarding my own future is that I'll enjoy playing my newish to me Gibson Alan Bibey vs playing my Eastman MD515, as nice as the Eastman is/was. For me, life is a lot better when I spend my free time making music vs reading horror stories online or watching cable news regardless of content. Haha. And for me the music is that much more enjoyable played on a nicer instrument.

  17. #13
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Location
    Albany NY
    Posts
    875

    Default Re: Reduce costs pleased

    I suppose a 120,000 dollar mandolin is not really worth that if no one will buy it at that price, on the other hand buy asking manufactures and luthiers to lower their sales cost -are we asking them to de-value their skill and labor ? That would be hard to justify as there are already plenty of lower priced mandolins on the market.
    Purchase within your ability, simple as that.
    "Mean Old Timer, He's got grey hair, Mean Old Timer he just don't care
    Got no compassion, thinks its a sin
    All he does is sit around an play the Mandolin"

  18. The following members say thank you to tmsweeney for this post:


  19. #14

    Default Re: Reduce costs pleased

    Don't expect Collings to lower their prices. I have no idea why they waited so long to eliminate the dealer pricing discounts. In fact, don't expect anything to get cheaper. Small businesses run on thin margins. Collings is not a conglomerate. It is still owned by Bill's daughter and his wife.



    As tmsweeney says there are cheaper alternatives. You buy what you can afford. Eastman, Northfield, some small builders. All cheaper, and better alternatives than we had twenty years ago. So, if people aren't buying folks like Collings will make less models. Right now, if you order anything but an MT there's quite a wait. It may just give them to catch up on their backlog.
    There's nothing better than first-hand experience.

  20. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Mandobar For This Useful Post:


  21. #15

    Default Re: Reduce costs pleased

    Thank you for the responses. I certainly hope and pray that it is a temporary situation and that all the mandolin makers come out ok.

  22. #16
    Registered User doc holiday's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2003
    Location
    alberta
    Posts
    1,195

    Default Re: Reduce costs pleased

    "To be clear, I am not accusing the manufacturers of over pricing....But the reality is that the vast majority of people are going to be tightening their wallets and it may be wise to figure out how to lower prices." ABmando

    Hard times, but maybe the 'vast majority of people' need to buy within their means, maybe with cash not credit, like we used to do in the past. I'll mention Collings by name, because you did and because I know the people personally. Collings needs to continue to provide work to their staff family at living wage levels , pay for supplies and keep the lights on. That's how Bill did it and that's how he would want it done. At economic times like these there will be fewer mandolins and guitars and other non-essentials sold, and unlike banks or big business, Wall Street is not going bail out luthiers and builders.

  23. The following members say thank you to doc holiday for this post:


  24. #17

    Default Re: Reduce costs pleased

    I get it. I was throwing out something for discussion. No one knows what the economy is going to be like months from now. Wages went up and they might go down. The prices of goods may have a similar pattern. And if we care so much about Collings and other great manufacturers, maybe it does help to scrimp on other items, and buy great mandolins that help things sound better (literally and figuratively) during hard times. In the U.S., an additional way of "voting" is by purchasing who one wants to vote for. I try to support people who are working really hard trying to make life better for people, and that includes Collings, as an example. And also consider sending messages to congress people supporting legislation that is going to help those that may lose jobs, wages, etc. And that can happen with employees of luthiers, suppliers, etc. - anywhere in the chain.

    For some reason, I am sorry I started this thread. It seems like I pressed some buttons that I did not intend to. To the extent I did, I apologize.

  25. #18

    Default Re: Reduce costs pleased

    Don’t be sorry, a civilized discussion is rarely a wasted moment. I agree we should scrimp to buy instruments. As I sit in my house adhering to my wife’s IMHO over reaction, I’m most grateful for my instruments, and glad I don’t have a 65” tv.

    I used to have the view Collings was overpriced, that is, until I put my kit together. You really get an understanding how much time goes into building an F5. Granted I probably took twice as long to build mine.
    Silverangel A
    Arches F style kit
    1913 Gibson A-1

  26. The following members say thank you to Br1ck for this post:


  27. #19
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    San Diego CA
    Posts
    2,126

    Default Re: Reduce costs pleased

    I know this may sound like hyperbole, but we are in unprecedented times. I think we are right to be nervous and must do what we can to ride out this storm. For me, while I wasn't in the mandolin market anymore to begin with, I'm pulling back any unnecessary purchase at this point to conserve my resources, since I have no idea if me and my wife would get sick, and what our out-of-pocket medical expense would be. It doesn't help that I picked this year of all years to switch to a high-deductible plan. All of that is to say: Whether company slashes their price by 10% or even 20%, it makes no difference to me at this point.

  28. #20
    Registered User Bob Clark's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Beautiful Salem County, NJ
    Posts
    1,708

    Default Re: Reduce costs pleased

    Quote Originally Posted by doc holiday View Post
    . . . At economic times like these there will be fewer mandolins and guitars and other non-essentials sold. . .
    What?! Mandolins and guitars are non-essentials?! I never knew! Nobody ever told me. . .my world is crumbling!
    Purr more, hiss less.

  29. #21
    Registered User Mike Romkey's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    Bettendorf, Iowa
    Posts
    504
    Blog Entries
    8

    Default Re: Reduce costs pleased

    I remember (as a Telecaster devotee at the time) when I thought anybody who would pay $1,000 for a little bitty mandolin was out of their mind. Then I said the same thing about anybody would would pay $2,500. Then $5,000, then ...

    Obviously mandolins are labor intensive. Especially the Fs. But having taken several fliers in my time as a mandolin lover, I know beyond a doubt that you get what you pay for.

    Prices are a bit up there but not crazy high. Without mentioning names, I'm a little curious at what point the prices for the top bigger makers collides adversely with the prices from the outstanding solo builders. But that's just idle thinking.

    I do think there are some INCREDIBLE DEALS (excited yelling!) on used mandolins. I mention, only in the hope that somebody buys them quickly and takes them off the market, a couple of nice MTs and MT2s, an outrageous deal on an Italian spruce MT20 (thank God there is a bid pending on this!), and a certain Kimble 2-point. There are some darned interesting sub-$2,000 and sub-$3,000 deals out there, too.

    If you're willing to set aside that tax return or save a few bucks on pay day for a while, and shop smartly, there is a great mandolin out there for you that you can afford. And once you get her under your fingers, it you may well end up thinking it's worth more than you paid.
    '09 Gilchrist Model 1, “July 9” Red Diamond F-5, '12 Duff F-5, '19 Collings MT2, ’24 A2-Z, ’24 F-2, '13 Collings mandola, '82 D-35, Gibson Keb Mo.

  30. The following members say thank you to Mike Romkey for this post:


  31. #22
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Sep 2002
    Location
    Invergordon,Scotland
    Posts
    2,364

    Default Re: Reduce costs pleased

    I have never got the impression that many instrument makers were particularly wealthy people. I should think if they charged by the hour for what they do, plus paid for materials etc and factored in their considerable experience, knowledge and skill, then it's probably surprising that instruments don't cost more.

    That said, it's clear that we are going through tough times and it may well be that people (including some working musicians, who will be getting hit by gig cancellations) will put some instruments up for sale because they need the money. As such, there might well be some good buys out there at cheaper prices, but with a strong element of sadness involved. As they say "it's an ill wind that blows no good".

    My sympathies to you if you find yourself in this position.
    David A. Gordon

  32. The following members say thank you to Dagger Gordon for this post:


  33. #23
    Registered User Frankdolin's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2013
    Location
    near Boston, MA
    Posts
    374

    Default Re: Reduce costs pleased

    Mandolins are essential as a psychologist, physician, therapist, happiness, peace of mind, and I could go on. Costs in this market will always be relative. And we have a boatload of options when mandolin shopping. I get costs are up, they're up for us also and showing no sign of going down. Without us no one sells anything. So let them do what they have to do and we will do the same, and we'll see who's the last one standing. IMHO

  34. #24
    F5G & MD305 Astro's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Location
    Charleston SC
    Posts
    2,466

    Default Re: Reduce costs pleased

    I don't know, in the current circumstances mandolin buying could pick up.

    These instruments were made for social distancing and self isolation.

    We could be looking at a huge run on mandolins.
    No matter where I go, there I am...Unless I'm running a little late.

  35. The following members say thank you to Astro for this post:


  36. #25

    Default Re: Reduce costs pleased

    Quote Originally Posted by Astro View Post
    I don't know, in the current circumstances mandolin buying could pick up.

    These instruments were made for social distancing and self isolation.

    We could be looking at a huge run on mandolins.
    and banjos, accordions, fiddles,.........
    There's nothing better than first-hand experience.

  37. The following members say thank you to Mandobar for this post:


Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •