Tuning machines

[Antlurz]

Are there any F5 style tuners that can be completely dissassembled down to the backing plate without folding, spindling, and mutilating?

I'd like to reassemble a set in a different order than they come as set up for the F5.

Failing that, Is there any way to get ahold of a manufacturer to see if I could get them to assemble them, same length shafts, but in a different order?

I have gone Googling, but so far, haven't found anything in the way of getting ahold of the front office.

Thanks,
Ron

[Dale Ludewig]

I do it with Grovers. It's a bit time consuming, but:

http://www.ludewigmandolins.com/EmoryLe....ite.jpg

[sunburst]

I used to do it with the older Schallers with the stamped plates. I haven't tried it with the newer ones with the cast plates.

[Antlurz]

Thanks, Guys.

Dale.. That picture is very similar to what I have in mind. Not the shape per se, but the method.

Ron

[Michael Lewis]

You can swap shafts with Schaller machines too. They are very similar to the Grovers is structure. Waverlys are a good candidate too if you feel spendy, but you will need the special spanner and some blue Loctite.

[Antlurz]

I've got a set here of what I presume is Gotoh's (from Siminoff), but it appears the parts are assembled on the shaft and then riveted to the backing plate. I'd be afraid to try to de-rivet them for fear of really boogering up the gold plate.

Ron

[Antlurz]

I guess I'm dense. I went to the Stew Mac site and looked at the F style Grovers and Schalllers and they don't give me any visual hints about how they would dissassemble..

Ron

[Hans]

John

Schaller is making tuners with cast plates now? Have you tried them...any difference? Do you have any links to pix?

[Dale Ludewig]

I assume it works the same with Schallers, but with the Grovers you start by unscrewing the gear from the string post. From there, things just come apart. Just remember to make a drawing of how things are assembled and in what order you take them apart so you can reverse it when the time comes.

[sunburst]

Hans, Schallers have had cast plates for a good many years now. I think they worked better before with the stamped ones.
I don't have any on hand and I couldn't find a very good pic, but the cast ones are the ones that look like this, where you cant see the end of the shaft.

[sunburst]

The older stamped ones looked like this.

[Hans]

Wow, John, I never noticed the difference! Blind in one eye and can't see out the other.
Thanks for the pix.

[Hal Loflin]

I have a question along this line...I have an Eastman 615 and it comes with reverse tuners (tune sharp the opposite of my Flatiron and Weber). I have looked at them and wondered if the plates could be flipped, the tuners disassembled (long shafts currently at the top/short at the bottom with grars on the bottom) and then reassembled to tune like modern models.

I originally thought that it was assembled wrong at the factory but after posting a thread on the cafe found out that Eastman does this on their mandolins and that it is the old traditional design. Not really a big deal but wondering if this could be done.

[Frank Ford]

Your plan might work easily, because you want to change the rotation of the gears, and reversing the plates will do that - you'll move the worm to the position above or below the gear in the process. As a result the buttons will shift up or down, so all you have to do is worry about clearance to the edge of the peghead. Worth a try.

Here's a bit more:

Take a look at the worm. If you think of it as a screw, which it is, notice whether the threads are right- or left- handed. A regiular wood or metal screw has right hand threads, and screws IN if you turn it clockwise.

In order for the buttons to turn in the conventional direction, right hand worms must be mounted BELOW the cog on the peghead. And, of course, left hand worms sit above the cog.

Somewhere around 1925 the world of right angle geared tuners changed from right hand to left hand worms, and as a result, from "cog over" to "cog under" design, allowing the parts to mesh more tightly as they wear.

[Paul Hostetter]

I'm glad to hear Frank say they can be reversed. I looked at some Eastmans with their backwards gears and wondered if you couldn't just swap the parts on the plates, since they seemed to be made to be disassembled, like the Schallers. But I get a headache thinking about stuff like this and have had little occasion to actually try. Many of the older gears are riveted together in a way where this swappage isn't even possible.

The Eastman issue is weird, because they're *not* "the old traditional design." They turn backwards, and the old ones didn't. I have a little more on this here, should this be of further interest.

[Hal Loflin]

OK...Tried to change my Eastman tuners out this afternoon to get them to turn/tune "the right way". Ran into two problems...1). It could be done but by flipping them over (left going to right side/right to left) the holes would not line up and would require them to be redrilled...old holes pretty much under the plate. 2). As mentioned in one of the above threads, the A and D top tuners run into a problem being so close to the head curls (if that is what they are called). So.....I reassembled them and will continue to tune them bassakwards.