Results 1 to 20 of 20

Thread: Pickup or microphone?

  1. #1
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Jan 2018
    Location
    Chicago
    Posts
    49

    Default Pickup or microphone?

    I’m looking to amp my mandolin but I’m on a budget. Until I can afford something more professional would I be better off getting a microphone or a pickup? I know if I go with a pickup I’ll also need a preamp, is that true for a mic as well? I’ve been looking into a kna ap2 and boss acoustic preamp pedal. What are people’s experiences with either of those? What microphone would you recommend?

  2. #2
    Registered User gspiess's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2017
    Location
    Central PA
    Posts
    301

    Default Re: Pickup or microphone?

    Since you're on a budget, you might have luck finding a Shure SM81 for under $100. If you go the pickup route, you can find a JJB piezo for $40.
    Being right is overrated. Doing right is what matters.

    Northfield F5S Blacktop
    Pono MND-20H

  3. #3
    Gibson F5L Gibson A5L
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Posts
    2,526
    Blog Entries
    1

    Default Re: Pickup or microphone?

    Bottom line a mic produces better tone but will not always work in the space where you are playing. A transducer will always work but if you don't buy a well made one you will have problems. I have had good experiences with K&K transducers and using them with an Art tube preamp. Save up some more money and buy a small diaphragm condenser mic like an AKG C1000S and you will be good to go.
    https://www.google.com/aclk?sa=L&ai=...gQIDBBD&adurl=
    https://www.sweetwater.com/store/det...E&gclsrc=aw.ds

    https://www.sweetwater.com/store/det...ser-microphone

    Yeah it's all expensive ….. but it covers you wherever you are playing.And that's what you want. R/
    I love hanging out with mandolin nerds . . . . . Thanks peeps ...

  4. #4
    Unfamous String Buster Beanzy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    Cornwall & London
    Posts
    2,921
    Blog Entries
    5

    Default Re: Pickup or microphone?

    +1 on the AKG c1000s I've been using one for gigging for a while now. I use it in hyper-cardoid mode for mandolin and fiddle.
    The band are two electric guitars, or plugged in acoustics, bass & drums, with me doing fiddle & mandolin.
    I place it above right pointing down at about 45deg towards the instrument.
    Great off axis rejection, just watch out for the rear lobe picking up reflections from low ceilings in bars.
    If you're aware of it it's easy to steer the mic away from that feedback hazard.

    In terms of playing it's a cinch. I treat it as an acoustic spotlight and walk in closer for solos, then shift back for accompanying.
    The positioning means it works really well for swapping fiddle & mandolin.
    I think one particular thing like is it's easy to sort out with an unfamiliar sound crew & they tend to leave mics alone more than a DI'd source.
    Eoin



    "Forget that anyone is listening to you and always listen to yourself" - Fryderyk Chopin

  5. The following members say thank you to Beanzy for this post:


  6. #5
    Lurkist dhergert's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    Location
    Blue Zone, California
    Posts
    1,867
    Blog Entries
    1

    Default Re: Pickup or microphone?

    Generally, a part of the question of what to use depends on the output impedance of your mic or piezo, and the input impedance of your amplifier. If you're not using a combo amp, you also need to be aware of the output impedance of your amplifier and the input impedance of your speakers.

    Pre-amps are good options if you also need EQ, gain, volume and potentially other adjustments. If you don't need those adjustments because you already have them available on your amp, it is possible to do impedance matching and/or impedance bridging without a pre-amp for a mic or a piezo system. There are inexpensive inline impedance matching/bridging transformers that provide this function; they are typically stand alone and do not offer EQ, gain, volume or other adjustments. So it really depends on what you need in your signal chain.

    Aside from impedance, feedback, background noise and phantom power can be serious issues with condenser mics, feedback and background noise can be a (lesser) issue with dynamic mics, and tone can be a serious issue with piezos...

    Sometimes it's handy to have more than one option, for example having a piezo system for amping or personal-montoring, and also having a mic for a clean signal for feeding into an FOH. Then you can also use the mic with your amp if volumes are low enough that feedback and background noise are not an issue, or your can also use your piezo to feed into an FOH if high volume is needed. Plus then for the adventurous, there's also the option to mix and/or blend the two signal channels from both the piezo system and the mic.

    Like many things, the optimum signal chain combination depends on the instrument and equipment, the genre, the acoustics of the venue and the tastes of the player and of the audience. What to get is somewhat of a subjective decision, where often cost becomes a primary deciding factor.
    -- Don

    "Music: A minor auditory irritation occasionally characterized as pleasant."
    "It is a lot more fun to make music than it is to argue about it."


    2002 Gibson F-9
    2016 MK LFSTB
    1975 Suzuki taterbug (plus many other noisemakers)
    [About how I tune my mandolins]
    [Our recent arrival]

  7. #6
    Lurkist dhergert's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    Location
    Blue Zone, California
    Posts
    1,867
    Blog Entries
    1

    Default Re: Pickup or microphone?

    ...
    FWIW, this is the Impedance Matching Transformer that I typically use (NFI):

    Audio-Technica CP8201
    -- Don

    "Music: A minor auditory irritation occasionally characterized as pleasant."
    "It is a lot more fun to make music than it is to argue about it."


    2002 Gibson F-9
    2016 MK LFSTB
    1975 Suzuki taterbug (plus many other noisemakers)
    [About how I tune my mandolins]
    [Our recent arrival]

  8. #7

    Default Re: Pickup or microphone?

    Ive been looking for something to use for looping practice and got some good info in a thread I posted a few weeks ago. I decided to go the mic route and am considering the Myers Feather mic. I haven't bought it yet as I'm working thru a few other things before I am able to set my music area up for looping.
    Northfield F5M #268, AT02 #7

  9. #8
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Location
    Albany NY
    Posts
    2,065

    Default Re: Pickup or microphone?

    the Meyer feather is nice although somewhat delicate, and I was always a fan of internal pickups, mostly because we were playing in noisy bars, I picked up a Sure SM81 uni-directional mic and it works quite nicely, even in a band mix - I have them set the gain higher than needed and just move closer to the mic as needed, my mando is pretty loud as is my octave, the mandola I have to get right close.
    The Sm81 does need phantom power and a pre-amp helps but is not always required.
    A pickup will have less "room noise" and a uni-directional mic helps instead of a condenser which is better for group ( omni-directional ) recording

    I used the Boss RC-20XL looper for many years and it is very easy to use and can handle many layers and some long durations.
    The only thing I don't like about looping with pickups through the BossRC-20 is after a few layers ( above 3) it starts to sound muddled and machine like.
    Stormy Morning Orchestra

    My YouTube Channel

    "Mean Old Timer, He's got grey hair, Mean Old Timer he just don't care
    Got no compassion, thinks its a sin
    All he does is sit around an play the Mandolin"

  10. #9
    Scroll Lock Austin Bob's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2012
    Location
    Austin, Tx - some call it heaven
    Posts
    1,183

    Default Re: Pickup or microphone?

    This is a good question, one that every one who plays live has to face at some point. I would first ask you what kind of music are you playing and in what settings?

    For instance, if you're playing in folk rock type of band with electric instruments in noisy settings, I would definitely recommend a pickup.The limitations of most pickups is that they tend to sound artificial or quacky. You can reduce that a bunch with pre-amps and other devices but then you're adding more money.

    On the other hand, if you are playing with an acoustical group that just wants to amplify a bit above the crowd noise, then a mic might be a good choice. It takes practice to be able to play exactly in the right spot with a mic, and they are more prone to feedback it you turn them up too loud.
    A quarter tone flat and a half a beat behind.

  11. #10
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Location
    Tangent OR
    Posts
    842

    Default Re: Pickup or microphone?

    We have used both. Our band is the "acoustical group that just wants to amplify a bit above the crowd noise" category. I prefer using a mic - I have an SM57 that plugs directly into our PA system. If you are interested in reproducing the acoustic sound, it's really hard to get it just right with a pickup. There were a few bands at Wintergrass last weekend that were using pickups for the instruments, and while the performances were fantastic, the sound of the instruments themselves for those bands was not as natural as I prefer. On the positive side of having a pickup though, is the ability to move around and not have to worry about how close to the mic you are.
    Follow the Flatt Stanley Incident on Facebook

    Listen to original tune "When You Fly" by my old band The Kindreds

  12. #11

    Default Re: Pickup or microphone?

    I’ve found that when it comes to amplification, there is no true low budget solution. I’d buy an SM 57 which will still work thirty years from now while I’d save for a Tonedexter and a pickup. Also, the louder the band, the less tone matters.
    Silverangel A
    Arches F style kit
    1913 Gibson A-1

  13. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Br1ck For This Useful Post:


  14. #12
    Scroll Lock Austin Bob's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2012
    Location
    Austin, Tx - some call it heaven
    Posts
    1,183

    Default Re: Pickup or microphone?

    Quote Originally Posted by Br1ck View Post
    I’ve found that when it comes to amplification, there is no true low budget solution. I’d buy an SM 57 which will still work thirty years from now while I’d save for a Tonedexter and a pickup. Also, the louder the band, the less tone matters.

    Very good advice. I've played with an internal K&K pickup through a Baggs Venue DI box into the mixer for quite a while now. This is in a choir setting for a 300 seat church. We usually have 2-3 electrified acoustic guitars, plus a trumpet, recorder and 10-12 voices. I've always felt that I was loud enough, but I never really liked the tone.

    I just bought a ToneDexter, look for recent threads in this forum. So far I'm very happy with the tone, it is much better than the results with the Venue. I even had someone come up and complement me the first time I used it. All she said was that I sounded great that day, but I took that to mean my tone was much better than usual.

    But I completely agree with you about no such thing as a low cost solution. But the good thing about your advice to buy the mic first is that you'll need it to train the ToneDexter anyway.
    A quarter tone flat and a half a beat behind.

  15. #13

    Default Re: Pickup or microphone?

    I've used a Microvox close mic system for bothe mandolin and banjo for many years, works great on both.

    Dave H
    Eastman 615 mandola
    2011 Weber Bitteroot A5
    2012 Weber Bitteroot F5
    Eastman MD 915V
    Gibson F9
    2016 Capek ' Bob ' standard scale tenor banjo
    Ibanez Artist 5 string
    2001 Paul Shippey oval hole

  16. #14
    coprolite mandroid's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2002
    Location
    Outer Spiral Arm, of Galaxy, NW Oregon.
    Posts
    17,103

    Default Re: Pickup or microphone?

    Might be a bit more up front , a dent on the credit card, Schertler passive Dyn M is like a contact dynamic Mic..

    so with an impedance matching transformer you can use a guitar amp ..

    Acoustic amps are often 2 channel , the mic channel will have a preamp in it,
    as will a channel on a house sound board or small sub mixer..




    ...
    writing about music
    is like dancing,
    about architecture

  17. #15

    Default Re: Pickup or microphone?

    Pickups tend to have a strong attack (which mandolins do in general anyway), require a good preamp to sound good, and are harder to regulate your volume on. I prefer a decent microphone that I can move in and out on for those reasons.

    SM-57s are the workhorse of the electric music world and are indestructible. Because they're built for mic'ing amps and drums, they have little dynamic range and must be set close to the source. Condenser mics are designed for capturing instrument sounds and sound great from 6-8" away. They can get very pricey but I've found this one to work well on mando and guitar. More than a SM57 but a whole different level of sound and made in Japan.https://www.amazon.com/Audio-Technic.../dp/B0002YLBRK

  18. #16
    Registered User bradlaird's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Location
    Americus, GA
    Posts
    260
    Blog Entries
    1

    Default Re: Pickup or microphone?

    I did a Grass Talk Radio podcast episode on your question:
    http://www.bradleylaird.com/podcast/...how-notes.html

    That is my two cents worth.

  19. #17
    Registered User BoxCarJoe's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2018
    Location
    Brooklyn, NY
    Posts
    248

    Default Re: Pickup or microphone?

    I use a John Pearse transducer with a Behringer ADI 21 (or even just a simple EQ pedal).

    It's an inexpensive solution and the amplified sound is pretty accurate IMO.

  20. #18
    coprolite mandroid's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2002
    Location
    Outer Spiral Arm, of Galaxy, NW Oregon.
    Posts
    17,103

    Smile Re: Pickup or microphone?

    In Mics, Rode has 2 battery powered condenser, end addressed Mic models..
    a condenser powered by a 9v battery..

    and so it too, with an impedance marching transformer, can use a guitar amp..


    ... of course if on a dried Beans & Rice budget , Musicians's Friend/Guitar center has some very affordable mics..
    writing about music
    is like dancing,
    about architecture

  21. #19
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Nov 2013
    Location
    Consecon, Canada
    Posts
    51

    Default Re: Pickup or microphone?

    Tell us about the venues that you expect to play.
    In my experience a noisy bar room calls for a piezo pickup. It's simpler to manage feedback free sound levels in that loud environment.
    In a quiet auditorium a piezo pickup will reveal everything about how you handle your mandolin. E.g. Strap squeaks, finger drags and not so clean fretting.

  22. #20
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    Germany
    Posts
    132

    Default Re: Pickup or microphone?

    Quote Originally Posted by Consecon View Post
    Tell us about the venues that you expect to play.
    In my experience a noisy bar room calls for a piezo pickup. It's simpler to manage feedback free sound levels in that loud environment.
    In a quiet auditorium a piezo pickup will reveal everything about how you handle your mandolin. E.g. Strap squeaks, finger drags and not so clean fretting.
    Perfect statement and covers my experience of thirty years of gigging in various setting. Great advice all over the place here.

    So I tried many ways: pickup, pickup/mic-dual source, attached mic, external mic. I ended up where I once started: A condenser mic on a boom stand.
    Mandolin amplifies much easer than guitar, so in 90 % of my gigs it works for me.

    Reasonable priced mics with great results: Shure SM81 used (condenser), Beyerdynamic M 201TG (dynamic)
    Clip-on mics: John Bartlett mandolin mic (extraordinary sound), DPA 4061 used (extraordinary sound)
    Pickup/Preamp: JJB pickup, Behringer ADI21 preamp
    Ellis F5 Special Deluxe custom
    Anton Krutz F5
    Lawrence Smart H 5 Mandola
    Gibson K 2 Mandocello
    Northfield mahogany arch top Octave Mandolin

    guitars, banjo, dobro, weissenborn, pedal steel, fretless bass, upright bass

Bookmarks

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •