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Thread: Here's why you are an amazing mandolin picker but still dumb

  1. #1

    Default Here's why you are an amazing mandolin picker but still dumb

    A new multi-level meta-analysis of the effects of musical training on general intelligence in children (not peer reviewed yet so let's not get carried away) concludes that all the claimed benefits to cognitive skills and academic achievement are just wishful thinking:

    https://psyarxiv.com/7s8wr/

    Oh the humanity.

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  3. #2
    Registered User mandocaster's Avatar
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    Default Re: Here's why you are an amazing mandolin picker but still dumb

    There was a study concerning a correlation between beer consumption and intelligence. The only confirmation was the undeniable fact that it had made Bud wiser.
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  5. #3

    Default Re: Here's why you are an amazing mandolin picker but still dumb

    Nice to see you posting, David...

    Hopefully the millions of tiger moms forcing their 5-year-olds into violin lessons will read this study...

    Even if this myth is debunked, I assume there are SOME benefits from my 10,000 hours of mando-noodling:

    1. Any time spent on mandolin, fiddle, or guitar seems to increase my abilities on the other two instruments.
    2. I assume I'm creating new neural pathways and warding off Alzheimer's, etc.

    Hopefully those aren't false assumptions as well...
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  7. #4

    Default Re: Here's why you are an amazing mandolin picker but still dumb

    Quote Originally Posted by OldSausage View Post
    A new multi-level meta-analysis of the effects of musical training on general intelligence in children (not peer reviewed yet so let's not get carried away) concludes that all the claimed benefits to cognitive skills and academic achievement are just wishful thinking:

    https://psyarxiv.com/7s8wr/

    Oh the humanity.
    Well David, I don't believe the results of that study... I don't think so anyway. Lots of big words there and I didn't understand most of them.
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  9. #5

    Default Re: Here's why you are an amazing mandolin picker but still dumb

    "Belief" is overrated. Just look at the mess it creates
    .....

    Science has not proven the "efficacies" of music (in this context)? Why am I not surprised..

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  11. #6
    Some Ability - No Talent MikeZito's Avatar
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    Default Re: Here's why you are an amazing mandolin picker but still dumb

    As a teenager (I didn't start my attempts at playing until I was 16) my obsession with music was most beneficial to me in that it kept me away from the drinking and drugs that my friends were beginning to explore; (and in a couple of instances, would later take negative control of their lives). Academically, it turned me from a D student into C- student, so I guess that counts as some sort of 'academic achievement'. Music training did not develop my 'cognitive skills', but once I reached my 40's and developed my cognitive skills by reading Plato, Socrates, Aristotle, Chesterton and Ratzinger, my musical skills began to develop as a result. In the long run, my love of music has been most important to me for the simple fact that it has given me countless hours of enjoyment that helped me to maintain relative sanity in the most insane of times.

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  13. #7

    Default Re: Here's why you are an amazing mandolin picker but still dumb

    No one has ever suggested I might be an amazing mandolin picker.

  14. #8
    Registered User foldedpath's Avatar
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    Default Re: Here's why you are an amazing mandolin picker but still dumb

    I have met way too many IQ-challenged people who were amazing musicians, to ever think there was ever a correlation there. It ain't the same part of the brain that gets exercised.

    I'm not even sure playing music helps retain memory or any other mental function when you get into your 60's and older. I'd like to believe it, but it's probably wishful thinking.

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    Registered User John Rosett's Avatar
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    Default Re: Here's why you are an amazing mandolin picker but still dumb

    Until the next "study" comes out, refuting the last one...
    "it's not in bad taste, if it's funny" - john waters

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    Registered User Joe Dodson's Avatar
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    Default Re: Here's why you are an amazing mandolin picker but still dumb

    If those "scientists" are so smart, why am I an amazing picker but still ugly?

    You can't explain that.

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    Default Re: Here's why you are an amazing mandolin picker but still dumb

    I wish my parents had been “tigers” forcing me to play and practice an instrument. It would have kept me from being a street wise urchin doing things that would have put me in serious trouble in today’s world.
    Thankfully, we had police that we may have ran from, but still considered our friends. Unlike today’s police, they would pick us up and dust us off before taking us home. Today’s youth are not so fortunate. Keeping them busy has to be a plus.
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    The Amateur Mandolinist Mark Gunter's Avatar
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    Default Re: Here's why you are an amazing mandolin picker but still dumb

    Case in point, the article quickly becomes unintelligible to me. Science, mathematics (like music) are inefficient at piercing my wall of basic ignorance.

    Oh, is that my mandolin there in the corner? Excuse me, need to practice a bit - whether it helps or not..
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  22. #13

    Default Re: Here's why you are an amazing mandolin picker but still dumb

    Never trust a writer who uses "postively impacts."*

    --------------------------

    *Much less "meta-"!

  23. #14

    Default Re: Here's why you are an amazing mandolin picker but still dumb

    A: Playing mando makes me smart.
    B: Being smart makes me play mando.
    C: My mando playing will drive you away if you're smart.
    D: Your mando playing makes my ears smart.
    E: None of the above.
    F: All of the above. Including E.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Joe Dodson View Post
    If those "scientists" are so smart, why am I an amazing picker but still ugly?

    You can't explain that.
    That's what radio is for.

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  25. #15

    Default Re: Here's why you are an amazing mandolin picker but still dumb

    Quote Originally Posted by Joe Dodson View Post
    If those "scientists" are so smart, why am I an amazing picker but still ugly?

    You can't explain that.
    Patient: Doctor, you gotta help me! I can't get a date!

    Doctor: You're ugly.

    Patient: I want a second opinion!

    Doctor: Okay. You're stupid, too.

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    Registered User Kevin Stueve's Avatar
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    Default Re: Here's why you are an amazing mandolin picker but still dumb

    Quote Originally Posted by Joe Dodson View Post
    If those "scientists" are so smart, why am I an amazing picker but still ugly?

    You can't explain that.
    Lady: Mr Churchill you are drunk.
    Churchill: Madam I maybe but in the morning I'll be sober. You will still be ugly
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  29. #17
    Martin Stillion mrmando's Avatar
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    Default Re: Here's why you are an amazing mandolin picker but still dumb

    Quote Originally Posted by Charlie Bernstein View Post
    A: Playing mando makes me smart.
    B: Being smart makes me play mando.
    C: My mando playing will drive you away if you're smart.
    D: Your mando playing makes my ears smart.
    E: None of the above.
    F: All of the above. Including E.
    G: My mandolin is a Smart.
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    Peace. Love. Mandolin. Gelsenbury's Avatar
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    Default Re: Here's why you are an amazing mandolin picker but still dumb

    Quote Originally Posted by MikeZito View Post
    As a teenager (I didn't start my attempts at playing until I was 16) my obsession with music was most beneficial to me in that it kept me away from the drinking and drugs that my friends were beginning to explore; (and in a couple of instances, would later take negative control of their lives). Academically, it turned me from a D student into C- student, so I guess that counts as some sort of 'academic achievement'. Music training did not develop my 'cognitive skills', but once I reached my 40's and developed my cognitive skills by reading Plato, Socrates, Aristotle, Chesterton and Ratzinger, my musical skills began to develop as a result. In the long run, my love of music has been most important to me for the simple fact that it has given me countless hours of enjoyment that helped me to maintain relative sanity in the most insane of times.
    I think this is a great illustration of what the study says and what it doesn't say. The meta-analysis examined a direct causal effect of music training on cognitive ability and concludes, based on very substantial evidence, that it doesn't seem to exist. It doesn't say that music training has no beneficial effects on other outcome variables or in indirect ways.

    There is evidence from other studies suggesting that singing has benefits for mental well-being (perhaps we should do a study on mandolin playing!). This relates to what you say about maintaining sanity and keeping out of trouble. It would seem reasonable to assume that good mental health is beneficial for learning, but I don't know the evidence because it's not my area.

    Importantly, learning to play an instrument demonstrates the value of practice, repetition, and patience. Sometimes I'm surprised that my students seem to grasp very easily that learning an instrument or becoming excellent at sport demands time and dedication - but with academic work, they seem to look for shortcuts or get frustrated when they don't understand immediately.

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  32. #19

    Default Re: Here's why you are an amazing mandolin picker but still dumb

    alzheimer's can forget everything but music, this has been a fact for a long time. schools with larger music programs , tend to have higher test scores. this does not mean it makes you smarter. but I have not seen any info saying that music has any negative effects, except rock and roll which we all know leads to the devil !!!!!!!!!

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  34. #20
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    Default Re: Here's why you are an amazing mandolin picker but still dumb

    I'd like to see a study on the effects of early musical training on net worth at time of retirement. I'd bet my entire savings it is a reverse correlation. Both dollars. Who is this Meta and why is she always analyzing everything ? Thank goodness I didn't marry her. Analyzing is illegal in some states anyway.
    No matter where I go, there I am...Unless I'm running a little late.

  35. #21
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    Default Re: Here's why you are an amazing mandolin picker but still dumb

    Quote Originally Posted by kjbllc View Post
    alzheimer's can forget everything but music, this has been a fact for a long time. schools with larger music programs , tend to have higher test scores. this does not mean it makes you smarter. but I have not seen any info saying that music has any negative effects, except rock and roll which we all know leads to the devil !!!!!!!!!
    I know a 98 year old lady who used to play bass and maybe keys with Arthur Smith in her 20s and maybe early 30s. She eventually got tired of the road grind along with working full time and raising her family and retired. She’s got pretty advanced dementia now, but every time they have music at her facility, staff gets her to play piano with the guest musicians. She’s apparently still got it. I can’t remember with certainty if she plays by ear or reads, but I’m pretty sure she plays by ear. It’s really impressive, and humorous, because she always grumbles, “I retired 60 years ago!”
    Chuck

  36. #22

    Default Re: Here's why you are an amazing mandolin picker but still dumb

    Quote Originally Posted by Gelsenbury View Post
    Importantly, learning to play an instrument demonstrates the value of practice, repetition, and patience. Sometimes I'm surprised that my students seem to grasp very easily that learning an instrument or becoming excellent at sport demands time and dedication - but with academic work, they seem to look for shortcuts or get frustrated when they don't understand immediately.
    Inspiration is the key.

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