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Thread: Upgrading a tailpiece

  1. #1
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    Default Upgrading a tailpiece

    I have a Loar LM-375 mandolin. Since I only play for hobby, I really don't have the money for a really high end mandolin. Would upgrading the tailpiece make a huge difference? Something a little more solid might Make it sound better, but I am not sure if it would be worth it. Even recommendations for decent tailpieces would be appreciated.

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    Registered User Eldon Dennis's Avatar
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    Default Re: Upgrading a tailpiece

    I've changed the tailpiece on three mandolins from the original to a James. I couldn't really tell any difference in the tone, volume, etc. However, changing strings on the James is so much easier. Likely it wouldn't be cost effective to put a James tailpiece on an entry level mandolin. On one of the mandolins the original tailpiece was was a Weber cast tailpiece - very solid but not the easiest to change strings.
    1992 Flatiron F5 Master model
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    Orrig Onion HonketyHank's Avatar
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    Default Re: Upgrading a tailpiece

    Actually, the tailpiece is probably less problematic than some other aspects of your mandolin, if it is anything like the LM270 (or was it 290?, I don't remember) I had. Number one, if you haven't had a good setup job done and can't foot the bill for a good luthier to do it, check out Rob Medrum's ebook (see my signature text). In particular, I noticed the difference when I got the nut slots down to a playable height and also when I fitted the bridge to the top. Another thing that I swear made a difference, but wasn't an easy job, was taking the finish off the the thing -- it was glommed on really thick like putty. But the bridge and the nut are quite doable.
    New to mando? Click this link -->Newbies to join us at the Newbies Social Group.

    Just send an email to rob.meldrum@gmail.com with "mandolin setup" in the subject line and he will email you a copy of his ebook for free (free to all mandolincafe members).

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    Mando-Accumulator Jim Garber's Avatar
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    Default Re: Upgrading a tailpiece

    In my country they would say, rather crudely, like putting lipstick on a pig. Listen to the wise men above aned get some refined setup work to make your mandolinas good as reasonable.
    Jim

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    Default Re: Upgrading a tailpiece

    I like this one. Sonic difference, in this case? Doubtful, but maybe.
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    Moderator MikeEdgerton's Avatar
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    Default Re: Upgrading a tailpiece

    There are very few that say they can hear the difference. I cannot. In my opinion there are a few reasons to change a tailpiece. The first would be that yours was broken. The second would be for the ease of changing strings on some (not all) cast tailpieces. The third would be for the looks.
    "It's comparable to playing a cheese slicer."
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    Default Re: Upgrading a tailpiece

    It was properly set up before purchase. Nut is fine with no other issues I saw.

  11. #8
    Registered User sblock's Avatar
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    Default Re: Upgrading a tailpiece

    To reiterate the advice already given, it is highly unlikely that changing your tailpiece will do much of anything to improve the sound of an entry-level, LM-375 Loar. The contribution of a tailpiece the to the tone is minimal. If you want to explore possible improvements, you might want to get better (or better-fiitted) bridge, or play around with different types of strings. These have a far more significant effect on tone.

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    Default Re: Upgrading a tailpiece

    From my experience the James tailpiece sits noticeably higher (~1/16") off of the top than the traditional style stamped tailpiece that came with my F-9 (using the exact same mounting screw holes). In fact my stamped tailpiece had been noticeably bent down from string tension. That height difference means there is also a tension difference at certain points of the top and the ribs near the end block. From my experience with other instruments I know that tailpieces and their adjustments can make a huge difference in tone and volume.

    Sound-theory says if you change anything, there will be a sound difference. But human hearing usually cannot pick up less than a 10% difference. So, while I believe there is at least a subtle difference with mandolin tailpieces, I don't know if it can be heard. At this point in time about 6 months after making this change, especially in deference to the wise souls here who report otherwise, I question my earlier reports...

    When I changed to my James tailpiece I made a point of using the exact same strings and setup so I could tell if there was a difference, and I thought I noticed one. But, if my James tailpiece does make a difference in sound, I'm pretty sure that how you hold your pick, or seasonally raising and lowering your action, probably makes a much bigger difference.

    I do have an easier time tuning now with my James tailpiece, my old stamped tailpiece was pretty flimsy.

    The other thing to always be aware of is that your audience may hear things that you may not hear, and vice versa.
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    "Music: A minor auditory irritation occasionally characterized as pleasant."
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  13. #10

    Default Re: Upgrading a tailpiece

    Spend your money on a good setup, perhaps a Cumberland Acoustics bridge, but I wouldn’t. I’d save up and look for a used Kentucky 900 some day.
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  14. #11

    Default Re: Upgrading a tailpiece

    Fretwork & properly filed nut and bridge slots are two things which, for the cost or less of a James tailpiece, might have a good chance of improving both the instrument's tone, and your playing (since better action makes every player better).

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    Default Re: Upgrading a tailpiece

    Those of you who have replaced a tailpiece, what did it cost? Every time I change strings I think about replacing the tailpiece. This is what I've currently got (https://www.stewmac.com/Hardware_and...SABEgLSEfD_BwE), and I feel the design makes changing the string way harder than it should be

  16. #13

    Default Re: Upgrading a tailpiece

    I put a James on my #1 and absolutely love it. But putting $160 of hardware on an entry level mando is going to be a limited improvement in tone, due to the construction of the instrument. If you are really loving playing the mandolin, I'd advise you to save for a better instrument. Unfortunately, you're looking at $1000+ (even used) for a good sounding mando, and $4000 is where they start sounding really nice. Not a cheap hobby (but less than a bass boat).

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    Default Re: Upgrading a tailpiece

    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Garber View Post
    In my country they would say, rather crudely, like putting lipstick on a pig.
    Nothing wrong with putting lipstick on a pig. Especially if you're going out to dinner or a movie.

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  19. #15

    Default Re: Upgrading a tailpiece

    It seems to me that Americans buy instruments to tinker with rather than play music on.


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  21. #16
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    Default Re: Upgrading a tailpiece

    It might simply be that bits and pieces are more available in the US than in the UK. Who, for example, in the UK has ever seen a case cover?

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    Default Re: Upgrading a tailpiece

    i plead "sorta guilty".
    New to mando? Click this link -->Newbies to join us at the Newbies Social Group.

    Just send an email to rob.meldrum@gmail.com with "mandolin setup" in the subject line and he will email you a copy of his ebook for free (free to all mandolincafe members).

    My website and blog: honketyhank.com

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    Default Re: Upgrading a tailpiece

    Not unlike us folks that buy more instruments than we can play at one time. Luckily we aren't judgemental and don't paint with broad brushes.
    "It's comparable to playing a cheese slicer."
    --M. Stillion

    "Bargain instruments are no bargains if you can't play them"
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    Registered User Sue Rieter's Avatar
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    Default Re: Upgrading a tailpiece

    Well, if one has more instruments than one can play, why not tinker with some of them

    Personally, I'm planning a tuner swap on one and looking for a tailpiece for another.
    "To be obsessed with the destination is to remove the focus from where you are." Philip Toshio Sudo, Zen Guitar

  26. #20

    Default Re: Upgrading a tailpiece

    Quote Originally Posted by Ray(T) View Post
    It might simply be that bits and pieces are more available in the US than in the UK. Who, for example, in the UK has ever seen a case cover?
    The US is a country of consumers; patriotism consists of buying as much as we can afford, and frequently more. We also need to buy much larger spaces in which to keep our stuff, larger vehicles to drag it around. (For definitive analysis of ‘stuff’ see George Carlin). We also don’t make small business too difficult with taxes, licenses and more taxes. So if I want to make low-volume gizmos, or even sell totally unregulated pharmaceuticals as supplements, this is the place.
    Along with the American version of freedom, there are some disadvantages, but we don’t let these cramp our style.

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  28. #21
    Mando-Accumulator Jim Garber's Avatar
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    Default Re: Upgrading a tailpiece

    Quote Originally Posted by Ray(T) View Post
    It might simply be that bits and pieces are more available in the US than in the UK. Who, for example, in the UK has ever seen a case cover?
    I have a friend who is designing covers to protect those case covers from the elements. Should be a big seller.
    Jim

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  30. #22
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    Default Re: Upgrading a tailpiece

    My case cover is parked on the driveway outside my house.

    Calton cases, beloved of many people on both sides of the Atlantic, were invented in the UK. I bought my first one in 1976 and the last in 2008. In the intervening 32 years, Keith Calton never once suggested that I might need to put a cover on it!

  31. #23
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    Default Re: Upgrading a tailpiece

    I would change a tailpiece only for ease of use or if the original broke. I'll go on a limb and say aside from a placebo effect on you, no one else will notice a sonic difference. On you existing mandolin, the easiest way to change/improve/hinder tone to YOUR ear is having a good set up, vary strings and pick materials and most of all improve your technique. The latter being key. Better tuners may help if your existing ones are slipping and you cannot adjust them.

    Jamie
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  32. #24
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    Default Re: Upgrading a tailpiece

    Yes, I can understand changing something for ease of use or failure - I did think about putting a James on my Collings mandola as the only way to get the heavier strings off is either to use wire cutters or yank them violently back through the tailpiece holes but then I discovered that Collings glue in their endpins, so I decided it was more trouble than it was worth.

  33. #25

    Default Re: Upgrading a tailpiece

    Ray [T]

    Hi Ray, you are in danger of being accused of using common sense.

    Dave H
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    2012 Weber Bitteroot F5
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