Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 25 of 34

Thread: Is this a real Larson?

  1. #1

  2. #2
    Teacher, repair person
    Join Date
    Oct 2017
    Location
    Southeast Tennessee
    Posts
    4,078

    Default Re: Is this a real Larson?

    No.

  3. #3
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    Portland, Ore.
    Posts
    355

    Default Re: Is this a real Larson?

    Quote Originally Posted by 383roller View Post
    To my eye, it looks like an instrument made -- or contracted to be made -- in Chicago by the Samuel Osborn Co. in the 1920s and often sold with a SAMMO label.

  4. #4

    Default Re: Is this a real Larson?

    Those SAMMO mandolins are almost certainly a Harmony made instrument which would be my opinion on this mandolin's maker.

  5. #5
    Registered User Bob Buckingham's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Greer, SC
    Posts
    898

    Default Re: Is this a real Larson?

    My very first mandolin was very similar to that one but had a butteryfly pickguard and was labeled Lyon and Healy. It really needed better tuning machines is about all I remember out that thing.

  6. #6
    Moderator MikeEdgerton's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Howell, NJ
    Posts
    26,875

    Default Re: Is this a real Larson?

    Almost everyone made a similar model (well, except Gibson) but I'm with Nick on this one, it looks like a Harmony to me.
    "It's comparable to playing a cheese slicer."
    --M. Stillion

    "Bargain instruments are no bargains if you can't play them"
    --J. Garber

  7. #7
    Mando-Accumulator Jim Garber's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Location
    Westchester, NY
    Posts
    30,753

    Default Re: Is this a real Larson?

    Larson query always=
    Jim

    My Stream on Soundcloud
    Facebook
    19th Century Tunes
    Playing lately:
    1924 Gibson A4 - 2018 Campanella A-5 - 2007 Brentrup A4C - 1915 Frank Merwin Ashley violin - Huss & Dalton DS - 1923 Gibson A2 black snakehead - '83 Flatiron A5-2 - 1939 Gibson L-00 - 1936 Epiphone Deluxe - 1928 Gibson L-5 - ca. 1890s Fairbanks Senator Banjo - ca. 1923 Vega Style M tenor banjo - ca. 1920 Weymann Style 25 Mandolin-Banjo - National RM-1

  8. #8
    Mando accumulator allenhopkins's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    Rochester NY 14610
    Posts
    17,378

    Default Re: Is this a real Larson?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Garber View Post
    Larson query always=
    I'm steering clear; once burned, twice shy...
    Allen Hopkins
    Gibsn: '54 F5 3pt F2 A-N Custm K1 m'cello
    Natl Triolian Dobro mando
    Victoria b-back Merrill alumnm b-back
    H-O mandolinetto
    Stradolin Vega banjolin
    Sobell'dola Washburn b-back'dola
    Eastmn: 615'dola 805 m'cello
    Flatiron 3K OM

  9. #9
    Full Grown and Cussin' brunello97's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Ann Arbor/Austin
    Posts
    6,281

    Default Re: Is this a real Larson?

    It is most absolutely, definitely, likely, probably not a Larson.

    Which means: there's a (snowball's) chance (in hexx) that it might be a Larson.

    Which around here translates into it could be a Larson.....

    Which is supported by such irrefutable evidence as "I saw a Larson with strings on it just like this one has...."

    Which then, naturally, becomes There's no real proof that it isn't a Larson....

    Which then, indignantly, becomes "Well, I think it is a Larson."

    Which then, enthusiastically, becomes "It's a Larson".

    Which then, proudly, becomes "I own a Larson!"

    So let's save some time and indigestion and say yes, of course it is a Larson.

    Mick
    Ever tried, ever failed? No matter. Try again, fail again. Fail better.--Samuel Beckett
    ______________________

    '05 Cuisinart Toaster
    '93 Chuck Taylor lowtops
    '12 Stetson Open Road
    '06 Bialetti expresso maker
    '14 Irish Linen Ramon Puig

  10. #10
    Mando-Accumulator Jim Garber's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Location
    Westchester, NY
    Posts
    30,753

    Default Re: Is this a real Larson?

    In my fantasy Hollywood biopic, there is a short scene where Carl and August actually talk to each other.

    Carl: Hey, August!
    August: What?
    Carl: Let's never sign our instruments or give anyone the possibility of knowing whether we made these. It will drive those people 100 years from now crazy.
    August: Sounds good.
    Carl: Ok. Now we can go back to never talking to each other again.
    August: Right.
    Jim

    My Stream on Soundcloud
    Facebook
    19th Century Tunes
    Playing lately:
    1924 Gibson A4 - 2018 Campanella A-5 - 2007 Brentrup A4C - 1915 Frank Merwin Ashley violin - Huss & Dalton DS - 1923 Gibson A2 black snakehead - '83 Flatiron A5-2 - 1939 Gibson L-00 - 1936 Epiphone Deluxe - 1928 Gibson L-5 - ca. 1890s Fairbanks Senator Banjo - ca. 1923 Vega Style M tenor banjo - ca. 1920 Weymann Style 25 Mandolin-Banjo - National RM-1

  11. The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to Jim Garber For This Useful Post:


  12. #11
    Moderator MikeEdgerton's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Howell, NJ
    Posts
    26,875

    Default Re: Is this a real Larson?

    August: What happens when they find out that we had them all manufactured for us by Regal and Harmony?
    Carl: Nobody would ever believe that. By the way, take a look at this new mandolin I built. I call it the Strad-O-Lin.
    "It's comparable to playing a cheese slicer."
    --M. Stillion

    "Bargain instruments are no bargains if you can't play them"
    --J. Garber

  13. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to MikeEdgerton For This Useful Post:


  14. #12
    Teacher, repair person
    Join Date
    Oct 2017
    Location
    Southeast Tennessee
    Posts
    4,078

    Default Re: Is this a real Larson?

    Real Larson:
    http://www.sprucetreemusic.com/produ...andolin-c-1910
    This is a very plain model. Note the rather triangular body, although they also used other patterns.

    There's a fancier one at Retrofret in Brooklyn, labelled Stahl. I can't get a direct link to work. Also, both Intermountain Guitar and Banjo and Schoenberg guitars have Maurers.

    If y'all will get a copy of Hartman's book, you can learn to recognize a Larson. It's easier if you've seen a few.
    Last edited by rcc56; Dec-05-2019 at 11:58pm.

  15. #13

    Default Re: Is this a real Larson?

    It seems plenty of mandolin sellers attempt Larsony.

  16. The Following 4 Users Say Thank You to NickR For This Useful Post:


  17. #14
    Mando-Accumulator Jim Garber's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Location
    Westchester, NY
    Posts
    30,753

    Default Re: Is this a real Larson?

    Quote Originally Posted by rcc56 View Post
    Real Larson:
    http://www.sprucetreemusic.com/produ...andolin-c-1910
    This is a very plain model. Note the rather triangular body, although they also used other patterns.

    There's a fancier one at Retrofret in Brooklyn, labelled Stahl. I can't get a direct link to work. Also, both Intermountain Guitar and Banjo and Schoenberg guitars have Maurers.

    If y'all will get a copy of Hartman's book, you can learn to recognize a Larson. It's easier if you've seen a few.
    Stahl mandolin at RetroFret
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Click image for larger version. 

Name:	8222_01.jpg 
Views:	196 
Size:	241.7 KB 
ID:	181716   Click image for larger version. 

Name:	8222_02.jpg 
Views:	100 
Size:	229.0 KB 
ID:	181717  
    Jim

    My Stream on Soundcloud
    Facebook
    19th Century Tunes
    Playing lately:
    1924 Gibson A4 - 2018 Campanella A-5 - 2007 Brentrup A4C - 1915 Frank Merwin Ashley violin - Huss & Dalton DS - 1923 Gibson A2 black snakehead - '83 Flatiron A5-2 - 1939 Gibson L-00 - 1936 Epiphone Deluxe - 1928 Gibson L-5 - ca. 1890s Fairbanks Senator Banjo - ca. 1923 Vega Style M tenor banjo - ca. 1920 Weymann Style 25 Mandolin-Banjo - National RM-1

  18. #15
    Moderator MikeEdgerton's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Howell, NJ
    Posts
    26,875

    Default Re: Is this a real Larson?

    Quote Originally Posted by rcc56 View Post
    Real Larson:
    http://www.sprucetreemusic.com/produ...andolin-c-1910
    This is a very plain model. Note the rather triangular body, although they also used other patterns.

    There's a fancier one at Retrofret in Brooklyn, labelled Stahl. I can't get a direct link to work. Also, both Intermountain Guitar and Banjo and Schoenberg guitars have Maurers.

    If y'all will get a copy of Hartman's book, you can learn to recognize a Larson. It's easier if you've seen a few.
    To be honest the book has a few Larson's that are questionable. That is the problem. Everything that might look like it could be has been identified as one. Even in the Gruhn book there is a Larson reverse scroll that I suspect came out of the Regal shop. The Regal book kind of opened folks eyes as to what that shop could do. The rule of thumb used to be "If it's nice and you can't identify it call it a Larson. If it's not so nice and you can't identify it call it a Regal". I think we've all been guilty of that.
    "It's comparable to playing a cheese slicer."
    --M. Stillion

    "Bargain instruments are no bargains if you can't play them"
    --J. Garber

  19. The following members say thank you to MikeEdgerton for this post:


  20. #16

    Default Re: Is this a real Larson?

    Or, as I once overheard two women asking a vendor at a flea market..."Is this pewter?" His seasoned reply, "Do you want it to be pewter?"

  21. The following members say thank you to Jeff Mando for this post:


  22. #17

    Default Re: Is this a real Larson?

    I think the word "Larson" should be changed to "MacGuffin." In many Hitchcock movies, and other thrillers (and, as Wikipedia points out, the holy grail in Arthurian legend), it's an object or device that is necessary to the plot but insignificant, unimportant, or irrelevant in itself. I have a Stahl-labeled bowlback that, with a gun to my head, I would say Regal likely made. I have a Stahl-labeled flatback that, gun to head, I think maybe stands a little better chance of being Larson-made. Incidentally, the bowlback is the better instrument (louder, brilliant tone—it's a ringer!), while the flatback is really easy to play and sounds pretty good in its own right.

  23. The following members say thank you to Scot63 for this post:


  24. #18
    Teacher, repair person
    Join Date
    Oct 2017
    Location
    Southeast Tennessee
    Posts
    4,078

    Default Re: Is this a real Larson?

    The majority of Larson mandolins have the distinctive semi-triangular body shape. Despite design variations, all that I have seen have a peghead with radiused sides and without a concave curve at the center of the peak. The single wide diagonally checkered purfling band around the top is uncharacteristic of Larson work, as is the "ebonized" hardwood fingerboard.

    The peghead shape of the OP's inquiry has been used by other Chicago makers, and the purfling pattern and the stained hardwood fingerboard have been used by both Chicago and east coast makers.

    This looks to be a well-built mandolin, but there is little, if anything, that resembles Larson work. There is a lot that resembles the work of others.

    Scot, does your Stahl bowlback have a paper label? It is generally accepted that Stahls with paper labels are not Larson products.

  25. #19
    Mando-Accumulator Jim Garber's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Location
    Westchester, NY
    Posts
    30,753

    Default Re: Is this a real Larson?

    Quote Originally Posted by 383roller View Post
    As others have noted, this mandolin resembles the Harmony-made mandolins sold by Sears-Roebuck under the Supertone label. Before we lose the photos of the OP's post altogether:
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Click image for larger version. 

Name:	vintage-larson-brothers-mandolin_1_d6c4d3e84ccfb298ebd61399a3305374.jpg 
Views:	135 
Size:	242.0 KB 
ID:	181755   Click image for larger version. 

Name:	vintage-larson-brothers-mandolin_1_d6c4d3e84ccfb298ebd61399a3305374-1.jpg 
Views:	218 
Size:	261.9 KB 
ID:	181756   Click image for larger version. 

Name:	vintage-larson-brothers-mandolin_1_d6c4d3e84ccfb298ebd61399a3305374-2.jpg 
Views:	136 
Size:	258.2 KB 
ID:	181757  

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	vintage-larson-brothers-mandolin_1_d6c4d3e84ccfb298ebd61399a3305374-3.jpg 
Views:	94 
Size:	183.9 KB 
ID:	181758  
    Jim

    My Stream on Soundcloud
    Facebook
    19th Century Tunes
    Playing lately:
    1924 Gibson A4 - 2018 Campanella A-5 - 2007 Brentrup A4C - 1915 Frank Merwin Ashley violin - Huss & Dalton DS - 1923 Gibson A2 black snakehead - '83 Flatiron A5-2 - 1939 Gibson L-00 - 1936 Epiphone Deluxe - 1928 Gibson L-5 - ca. 1890s Fairbanks Senator Banjo - ca. 1923 Vega Style M tenor banjo - ca. 1920 Weymann Style 25 Mandolin-Banjo - National RM-1

  26. #20
    Mando-Accumulator Jim Garber's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Location
    Westchester, NY
    Posts
    30,753

    Default Re: Is this a real Larson?

    As for the identifying true Larson creations, I think there are multiple characteristics for the guitars that don't really work with the mandolins. Mandolins AFAIK do not have laminated braces or necks. And though Hartman notes that the guitars were built under tension, frankly I thought many guitars of other makers of that period were built that way and certainly you find it in the cant-topped mandolins (both bowlback and flat-back) of many makers.

    The Larson Brothers Registry site does have a page discussing Defining Characteristics.

    One characteristic—and there may be others—does carry over from the guitars (from the Larson Brothers Registry Web site):
    Next, check out that unusually thick ebony fingerboard. Most Larson fingerboards are bound, and always in an unusual way: The brothers bound only the top half of the edge of the fingerboard, leaving a strip of ebony running lengthwise below the binding. They did the same when binding the soundhole.
    In any case, the only possibly Larson-made mandolin I own is this one with a paper label from a music store in Milwaukee called Rohlfing. I bought it on eBay almost a decade ago because it resembled Larson-made bowlbacks I was familiar with. When I examined it i saw the Maurer branding on the inside neck block. This one does have the tell-tale(?) ebony strip under the fretboard binding and it does seem to be made well. Another feature that would not be characteristic of guitars and so ignored in the litany of Larson identifying features is the collar at the neck joint. I don't know if all the bowlbacks had that but some of them do.

    Here are some pics of mine:
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Click image for larger version. 

Name:	rohlfing_ftbk.jpg 
Views:	135 
Size:	282.0 KB 
ID:	181767   Click image for larger version. 

Name:	rohlfing_hdstk.jpg 
Views:	108 
Size:	65.5 KB 
ID:	181769   Click image for larger version. 

Name:	rohlfing_hdstk_bk.jpg 
Views:	121 
Size:	306.7 KB 
ID:	181770  

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	neck_side02.jpg 
Views:	125 
Size:	43.6 KB 
ID:	181766   Click image for larger version. 

Name:	neck_side01.jpg 
Views:	100 
Size:	67.4 KB 
ID:	181765   Click image for larger version. 

Name:	rohlfing_collar.jpg 
Views:	104 
Size:	435.4 KB 
ID:	181768  

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	rohlfing_neckblk_brand.jpg 
Views:	116 
Size:	422.8 KB 
ID:	181764   Click image for larger version. 

Name:	rohlfing_label.jpg 
Views:	121 
Size:	508.8 KB 
ID:	181763  
    Last edited by Jim Garber; Dec-06-2019 at 5:42pm.
    Jim

    My Stream on Soundcloud
    Facebook
    19th Century Tunes
    Playing lately:
    1924 Gibson A4 - 2018 Campanella A-5 - 2007 Brentrup A4C - 1915 Frank Merwin Ashley violin - Huss & Dalton DS - 1923 Gibson A2 black snakehead - '83 Flatiron A5-2 - 1939 Gibson L-00 - 1936 Epiphone Deluxe - 1928 Gibson L-5 - ca. 1890s Fairbanks Senator Banjo - ca. 1923 Vega Style M tenor banjo - ca. 1920 Weymann Style 25 Mandolin-Banjo - National RM-1

  27. #21

    Default Re: Is this a real Larson?

    Jim, those attachments do not seem to open. This is a shame as I would like to see these definitive identifying aspects of the Larson made mandolin.

  28. #22
    Mando-Accumulator Jim Garber's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Location
    Westchester, NY
    Posts
    30,753

    Default Re: Is this a real Larson?

    NickR: I am not sure why those uploads didn't take but I re-uploaded and added a few more. I hadn't played that one for awhile and I want to put some time into it. I would raise the nut and the bridge a hair and restring it with Calace Dogals. My Vega #3 still sounds amazing with those strings. What a bowlback should sound like.
    Jim

    My Stream on Soundcloud
    Facebook
    19th Century Tunes
    Playing lately:
    1924 Gibson A4 - 2018 Campanella A-5 - 2007 Brentrup A4C - 1915 Frank Merwin Ashley violin - Huss & Dalton DS - 1923 Gibson A2 black snakehead - '83 Flatiron A5-2 - 1939 Gibson L-00 - 1936 Epiphone Deluxe - 1928 Gibson L-5 - ca. 1890s Fairbanks Senator Banjo - ca. 1923 Vega Style M tenor banjo - ca. 1920 Weymann Style 25 Mandolin-Banjo - National RM-1

  29. The following members say thank you to Jim Garber for this post:

    NickR 

  30. #23
    Full Grown and Cussin' brunello97's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Ann Arbor/Austin
    Posts
    6,281

    Default Re: Is this a real Larson?

    Link worked for me Nick. Try this one.

    Interesting discussion, but this page is mostly focussed on guitars which seem a bit more characteristcially definable.
    I enjoy the discussions of Larson guitars as the talk generally drifts to how good they sound.
    The Larson mandolin discussions here tend to pivot around the inlay or fretboard detailing.

    I've had Bob Hartman's book for a number of years. It is both wonderfully helpful and frustratingly broad-brushed in its attributions.

    Like splinters from the True Cross......enough to build a skyscraper.

    Mick
    Ever tried, ever failed? No matter. Try again, fail again. Fail better.--Samuel Beckett
    ______________________

    '05 Cuisinart Toaster
    '93 Chuck Taylor lowtops
    '12 Stetson Open Road
    '06 Bialetti expresso maker
    '14 Irish Linen Ramon Puig

  31. #24
    Mando-Accumulator Jim Garber's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Location
    Westchester, NY
    Posts
    30,753

    Default Re: Is this a real Larson?

    Here are a few more collars from various Stahl mandolins:
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Click image for larger version. 

Name:	m3.jpg 
Views:	111 
Size:	30.2 KB 
ID:	181771   Click image for larger version. 

Name:	lb5.jpg 
Views:	114 
Size:	36.3 KB 
ID:	181773   Click image for larger version. 

Name:	40751.jpg 
Views:	122 
Size:	57.5 KB 
ID:	181772  

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	d6_3.jpg 
Views:	102 
Size:	100.5 KB 
ID:	181774  
    Jim

    My Stream on Soundcloud
    Facebook
    19th Century Tunes
    Playing lately:
    1924 Gibson A4 - 2018 Campanella A-5 - 2007 Brentrup A4C - 1915 Frank Merwin Ashley violin - Huss & Dalton DS - 1923 Gibson A2 black snakehead - '83 Flatiron A5-2 - 1939 Gibson L-00 - 1936 Epiphone Deluxe - 1928 Gibson L-5 - ca. 1890s Fairbanks Senator Banjo - ca. 1923 Vega Style M tenor banjo - ca. 1920 Weymann Style 25 Mandolin-Banjo - National RM-1

  32. #25
    Full Grown and Cussin' brunello97's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Ann Arbor/Austin
    Posts
    6,281

    Default Re: Is this a real Larson?

    Link worked for me Nick. Try this one.

    Interesting discussion, while this page is mostly focussed on guitars which seem a bit more characteristcially definable.
    I enjoy the discussions of Larson guitars as the talk generally drifts to how good they sound.
    The Larson mandolin discussions characteristically tend to pivot around the inlay or fretboard definition.

    I've had Bob Hartman's book for a number of years. It is both characteristically helpful and also definitely broad-brushed in its attributions.

    Like splinters from the True Cross......enough to build a skyscraper.

    BTW, Jim, I've had L+H bowls with that collar detail as well. Not suggesting yours isn't from the LarBros because of that, just that it isn't a DefChar in and of itself.

    Mick

    Doh. How did this get posted twice?
    Ever tried, ever failed? No matter. Try again, fail again. Fail better.--Samuel Beckett
    ______________________

    '05 Cuisinart Toaster
    '93 Chuck Taylor lowtops
    '12 Stetson Open Road
    '06 Bialetti expresso maker
    '14 Irish Linen Ramon Puig

  33. The following members say thank you to brunello97 for this post:

    NickR 

Bookmarks

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •