Mandolin vs. Mandola?

[Richard Mott]

Non-player here with a question for the forum: How do you think about the comparative strengths and different musical uses of mandolins vs. mandolas? I realize that mandolas have a lower register, but does that affect versatility? Also, bluegrass's traditional sound has relied mainly on mandolins. My sense is that there are at least ten mandolin players/owners for every mandola player. How do you think about the choice of a first instrument?

[red7flag]

I am a BIG mandola and mandolin fan. I just ordered a longer scale (for a more celtic sound) Nyberg and maybe in the process of trading my Old Wave mandola for a Girouard mandola. There is some definate overlap as you indicated. The mandola when playing it like your would play a mandolin in D, plays in G. This is a very nice key when playing with a non-fiddle grass jam with a lot of tunes in G. Also, is very strong when playing with vocals in D. It has a warmer deeper tone and compliments vocals and does really well playing in duets with a guitar. I simply love playing mine, especially with other people. Just have to do some transposing until it feels comfortable as I play mandolin more. D plays well with both instruments.

[JeffD]

The obvious answer is get one of each.

[red7flag]

Or more, as in my case.

[foldedpath]

JeffD is right, you need one of each. Also an octave mandolin. Maybe a mandocello.


But if this is your first foray into instruments tuned in 5ths, I recommend getting a mandolin first. It will slot more easily into a wide range of music styles, whereas the mandola is more of a special-purpose axe.

Either way, welcome to the wonderful world of fretted instruments tuned in 5ths!

[Tobin]

I would agree that for a first instrument, especially if bluegrass is your thing, go with the mandolin first. Mandola can be added later, and it's not a difficult step to transition into it. But the mandolin is, obviously, the more traditional choice for the bluegrass sound and it just fits better in that genre.

This isn't to say that the mandola can't be great in bluegrass, or on its own. I have several mandolas and play them regularly. But the lower register of the mandola is down into banjo and guitar range, and can get sort of lost or overshadowed in a band setting. The mandolin, though, is up there with the fiddle in terms of pitch/register. It stands out better.

Here's a previous thread discussing mandola in bluegrass (with some nice examples).

The other thing is that the mandolin seems to work better for some of the keys used in bluegrass (specifically A and B). Those keys are not real strong on a mandola unless you capo or have large enough hands to be able to play out of closed positions. The mandola, to me, is best suited for the keys of C and G, where the low growly end can be put to best use.

[Folkmusician.com]

One more vote for getting the Mandolin first. I have the same feeling as everyone us. It is the more versatile instrument and fills a needed space within a band, where a Mandolin will have more of an overlap with guitar/banjo.

There is also 100+ times the learning material available for mandolin.

Of course, you should get a mandolin as well. It can just come later.

[Steve Ostrander]

JeffD is right, you need one of each. Also an octave mandolin. Maybe a mandocello.

Don't forget tenor guitar. You can tune it like a mandolin or mandola.

I agree that for a beginner, start with mandolin. There are a lot more of them around, so acquiring a new or used one will be easier.

[Pasha Alden]

I play both mandola and mandolin. They have their place. Agree with the person who posted about transposing. Doing a little of that, but I absolutely love the rich honey depth of my mandola. Of course my mandolin has its place.

[Pasha Alden]

Just another thought, I don't play bluegrass as a rule, so for me the overlap with guitar when playing mandola is just great. I would also start with mandolin as a beginner because as someone remarked there is more learning material for it.

[allenhopkins]

Don't forget tenor guitar. You can tune it like a mandolin or mandola...

Not sure what Steve means here; you can definitely tune a tenor guitar in fifths, like a mandolin/mandola, but I wouldn't tune it to mandolin pitch.

There's no "vs." in mandolin and mandola, any more than there would be in violin and viola. They're similar instruments in different ranges of pitch; techniques used one are fairly easily transferred to the other, and they have, generally, different musical roles. The mandolin is more likely to be a "lead" or melody instrument (like the violin), the mandola more likely a supportive instrument in an ensemble context. Not always, but in general usage.

As rightly pointed out, there are dozens, maybe hundreds or thousands, of mandolin players for every mandola player, so for a musician starting out, learning mandolin probably is a better choice. Once you learn how to play an instrument with four string courses tuned in fifths, you can take that knowledge and apply it to mandolin, mandola, mandocello, octave mandolin, tenor banjo, tenor guitar, and, if you learn how to play with a bow, to violin, viola and cello.

Good luck!

[jetsedgwick]

I posted a video on this a while back, search my username.

[Tobin]

Not sure what Steve means here; you can definitely tune a tenor guitar in fifths, like a mandolin/mandola, but I wouldn't tune it to mandolin pitch.

Standard tuning for a tenor guitar is the exact same as a mandola. CGDA. I'm not sure why everybody is saying you "can" do it. You're "supposed" to do it!

[mandroid]

Mandolin Quartet <ike a string quartet> 2 mandolins a Mandola and a Mandocello

[Pasha Alden]

Thanks to Allenhopkins: I find mandolin/mandola similar to learn, though one has less learning material. That is in terms of learning material in braille. Having said that I tend to rethink what music I have.
For me I do not think of mandolin vs mandola, though as a beginner I started with a mandolin.
Must also say I think of them as to violin and viola: one being a different range: or having a bigger range in that I have access to lower notes.

[Pasha Alden]

Could someone tell me more of a mandocello? is it the same tuning as a cello?

[Tobin]

Hi Pasha! Yes, a mandocello is tuned the same as a cello. CGDA, an octave below the mandola.

[indexless]

I have both, the Mandola strengthens my hands and I love the deep tone...get both

[Steve Ostrander]

Not sure what Steve means here; you can definitely tune a tenor guitar in fifths, like a mandolin/mandola, but I wouldn't tune it to mandolin pitch.

Yes , I should have been more specific. Tuned in fifths, but not to the same pitch. I was just suggesting that the choice wasn't necessarily limited to mandolin or mandola. There is the whole CBOM family of instruments,

And, while standard tuning for TG may be CGDA (which came from tenor banjo) but there are other tunings, such as --GDAE or GDAD.

[Explorer]

Regarding mandola teaching materials, I've learned a lot going through the various tenor banjo books like the Complete Tenor Banjo Method and the Tenor Banjo Melody Chord Playing Stystem by Mel Bay, both for CGDA tuned instruments. There are many other resources for CGDA-tuned instruments as well, both tenor banjo and tenor guitar books.

One has to be careful that any given book is for CGDA tuning, of course. Tenor/plectrum banjo/guitar have a variety of common tunings. I'd recomment only buying books where you have it on hand and can verify the tuning, or where a website makes positive identification of the CGDA tuning.

Although I have a few mandolins, I have put some high mileage (but no visible wear) on the Flatiron mandola I bought new back in 1984-1985. I think it's the instrument which has been with me the longest.

If a mandola is really calling to you louder than a mandolin, I'd say you should go for it.

[Pasha Alden]

Please pardon my being a young mandola player: that is a beginner. A total novice. I need to understand: why did we adopt tuning of tenor banjoFOR mandola? Is it easier to play?
So my question: advantages of this kind of tuning? What would happen if I choose tuning my mandola to one tuning suggested above?


Happy playing

[Pasha Alden]

Or furtherto my questions tuning to gdae or gdad, is that closer to mandolin and therefore changes the rich sound of the deeper honey notes of mandola?
Also my other question: I assume different tunings equal to different tension in the neck? Just thinking aloud, not at all technically-minded. <smile>

[Richard Mott]

Dear one and all--Just to say thanks for the collective wisdom of this forum on this topic! Much appreciated, there is no other like it in the world.

[Tobin]

Please pardon my being a young mandola player: that is a beginner. A total novice. I need to understand: why did we adopt tuning of tenor banjoFOR mandola? Is it easier to play?

Again, the mandola is the mando-family equivalent to the viola. All the mando-family instruments are counterparts to viol-family instruments. I'm pretty sure the mandola existed before the tenor banjo.

The tunings of these instruments are designed to fill the range needed for orchestral pieces. Very few players today are using them in their original context. We are finding new roles for them.

[allenhopkins]

Actually, if some sources are to be believed, the mandola came first; the name "mandolin" means "little mandola." As Tobin opines, the tenor banjo is a 20th century innovation, designed to be a plectrum-played banjo, with a shorter neck and heavier stringing than the earlier five-string banjo -- and tuned in fifths, rather than the idiosyncratic gCGBD tuning of the five-string of the time (banjo "G tuning," with the fourth string raised from C to D, is a later variant associated with bluegrass playing, and there are of course a wide variety of banjo tunings developed in the "folk tradition"; four-string "plectrum" banjos are generally tuned CGBD, like the four "main" strings of the five-string, without the short fifth string).

The common thread between "violin family" and "mandolin family" instruments, of course, is the tuning in fifths -- and the fact that the lowest-pitched member of each "family," the bass viol and the mando-bass, are instead tuned in fourths. You will notice that the correct name of the "string bass" is bass viol, harkening back to the "viol family" of bowed instruments, tuned in fourths rather than fifths, that was nearly totally replaced by the "violin family." (Reference)

And doesn't "violin" mean "little viola"? Maybe we should reconsider who the "head" of each "family" is...