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Thread: 3 Point F-4 Torch and Wire

  1. #1
    Registered User Vernon Hughes's Avatar
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    Default 3 Point F-4 Torch and Wire

    I see this coming up at a local estate auction. Looks unmolested and in the original case. Small scroll missing on the head stock. Any idea what it might bring? I might have to go to the bank..
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    Hughes F-5 #1
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    Registered User William Smith's Avatar
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    Default Re: 3 Point F-4 Torch and Wire

    Nice, what auction? Whats the starting bid? I imagine less than 5G? Are there more photos?
    Last edited by William Smith; Nov-27-2019 at 10:04am.

  4. #3
    Registered User Vernon Hughes's Avatar
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    Default Re: 3 Point F-4 Torch and Wire

    I was hoping to keep it under wraps!. Even a blind pig finds an acorn every now and then. I just don't know how high to bid to make it a deal. I see blonde and black faced ones around but not this color.
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    Registered User Timbofood's Avatar
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    Default Re: 3 Point F-4 Torch and Wire

    Very cool!
    Timothy F. Lewis
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    Registered User William Smith's Avatar
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    Default Re: 3 Point F-4 Torch and Wire

    Don't worry buddy, I don't like oval holes but are there any F-hole mandolins or neat guitars? I'm very interested? If you could PM the site? I hope you get the Torch!

  8. #6
    Registered User Vernon Hughes's Avatar
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    Default Re: 3 Point F-4 Torch and Wire

    nothing else but a rogue mandolin and a newer martin shenandoah guitar.
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  9. #7
    Registered User William Smith's Avatar
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    Default Re: 3 Point F-4 Torch and Wire

    Is the Shenandoah a Dreadnaught or OM style? How much? I played one a few years ago that I loved but the owner bought for his wife so wouldn't sell! "And guess what, its never been played but by me 10 years or so ago!-bummer!" What about the Rogue-is it solid wood? As I like to buy solid wood mandolins and rework them?

  10. #8
    Registered User Vernon Hughes's Avatar
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    Default Re: 3 Point F-4 Torch and Wire

    looks like a rosewood 2832, usually at this auction they start things at a low bid with no reserve.
    Hughes F-5 #1
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  11. #9
    Registered User William Smith's Avatar
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    Default Re: 3 Point F-4 Torch and Wire

    Man I've looked everywhere, I want the Rosewood Martin if I can get it cheap Vernon, can you PM any hints?

  12. #10
    Registered User Glassweb's Avatar
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    Default Re: 3 Point F-4 Torch and Wire

    i have never seen one of these in this color, but other than the finish it looks totally original. and that rectangular F4 case is a plus in terms of value. i have doubts regarding the playability of such a weathered old beast, but it might clean up nicely and, if the neck is not too bowed, would be worth bidding on. if the neck seems really warped and if there are serious cracks and/or repairs i would personally pass on it. others probably would not!

  13. #11
    Registered User slimt's Avatar
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    Default Re: 3 Point F-4 Torch and Wire

    Thats a cool looking F4

    The serial numbers not to far off from mine.

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    Cafe Linux Mommy danb's Avatar
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    Default Re: 3 Point F-4 Torch and Wire

    Quote Originally Posted by Vernon Hughes View Post
    I see this coming up at a local estate auction. Looks unmolested and in the original case. Small scroll missing on the head stock. Any idea what it might bring? I might have to go to the bank..
    Hey Vernon.. that's one of only 2 I've seen like it. What happened there to my eyes is a refinish job at Gibson around 1915-1924 or so, as that would be a time that such a color and such a case could have happened. That's a pretty good serial for tone (I have one not far off), and honestly the loar style case and red finish make it rarer than rocking horse sh*t

    Hopefully you get a steal, but that's rare and wonderful enough that a lot of folks would love to see it cleaned up and playable, so you'd probably make a profit if you wanted to sell
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  17. #13
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    Default Re: 3 Point F-4 Torch and Wire

    Quote Originally Posted by danb View Post
    Hey Vernon.. that's one of only 2 I've seen like it. What happened there to my eyes is a refinish job at Gibson around 1915-1924 or so, as that would be a time that such a color and such a case could have happened. That's a pretty good serial for tone (I have one not far off), and honestly the loar style case and red finish make it rarer than rocking horse sh*t

    Hopefully you get a steal, but that's rare and wonderful enough that a lot of folks would love to see it cleaned up and playable, so you'd probably make a profit if you wanted to sell
    That would make sense now Im seeing what you are seeing.

  18. #14
    Registered User William Smith's Avatar
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    Default Re: 3 Point F-4 Torch and Wire

    Whats the price on the Martin as of now? I've spent too long trying to find this auction so I've gave up!

  19. #15

    Default Re: 3 Point F-4 Torch and Wire

    Good luck, Vernon!

  20. #16
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    Default Re: 3 Point F-4 Torch and Wire

    This is a fairly late 3 pointer, circa 1910. The finish appears to have been applied circa 1914 to 1919. It would be nice to see a picture of the back.
    The rectangular case is a true rarity for the period.

    I would think its retail value might be $5000 or more, depending on the condition of the back and the seller's attitude. I have seen 3 pointers advertised as high as 9, but that's probably quite a bit more than the market will bear.

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  22. #17
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    Default Re: 3 Point F-4 Torch and Wire

    The points made here about condition and possible refinish are important to consider, but no-one seems to be answering your question about the value. I am by no means an expert, but some searches can give you some ballpark reference numbers. Carter's doesn't have 3-points, but they do have a couple of teens F4's, and you can find sold listings on reverb here:
    https://reverb.com/marketplace?query...&year_max=1915

    If it were me, I'd reserve some dollars to take it to a luthier I trust for at least a checkup and a setup. If it needs frets, neck set and/or repairs, you could be looking at a good chunk of change. As danb said, hopefully you get a steal! I'll look forward to reading about.

  23. #18
    Registered User slimt's Avatar
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    Default Re: 3 Point F-4 Torch and Wire

    I would be all over that one for a few reasons. I would be looking inside the top for a signature as well . Pretty cool piece .

  24. #19
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    Default Re: 3 Point F-4 Torch and Wire

    I wonder what ever happened with this mandolin???
    THE WORLD IS A BETTER PLACE JUST FOR YOUR SMILE!

  25. #20
    Registered User slimt's Avatar
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    Default Re: 3 Point F-4 Torch and Wire

    Quote Originally Posted by pops1 View Post
    I wonder what ever happened with this mandolin???
    My guess. I bet a retop. From what another poster says. His guess the mid 20s on repair. The case fits the time line. That mandolin has seen better days. Its had a rough life.

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    Default Re: 3 Point F-4 Torch and Wire

    Quote Originally Posted by slimt View Post
    My guess. I bet a retop. From what another poster says. His guess the mid 20s on repair. The case fits the time line. That mandolin has seen better days. Its had a rough life.
    I was wondering if the OP won the auction and acquired this mandolin.
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  27. #22
    Registered User Vernon Hughes's Avatar
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    Default Re: 3 Point F-4 Torch and Wire

    Auction is coming up. I'll post updates.
    Hughes F-5 #1
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  28. #23
    Registered User Vernon Hughes's Avatar
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    Default Re: 3 Point F-4 Torch and Wire

    Just got back from the auction, It went for 5500.00 plus 3% buyers premium and Va. state tax. I ran it up best I could but too rich for me. Traverse brace loose and warped, broken off/missing small scroll, 3rd point bone missing, hump at the fingerboard end/body joint, loose binding. The case was very nice. I believe it was a gibson retrofitted Loar case as it had 2 cutouts for the lower body point (and the cutout for the 3rd point), all factory done. Sure would have liked to had it.
    Hughes F-5 #1
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  30. #24
    Mando accumulator allenhopkins's Avatar
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    Default Re: 3 Point F-4 Torch and Wire

    Yeah, but not at that price. Lotsa restoration needed, and final result tone-and-playability-wise unknown. Not $5.5K+ worth, IMHO.
    Allen Hopkins
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  32. #25
    Registered User zookster's Avatar
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    Default Re: 3 Point F-4 Torch and Wire

    I picked up a 1908 F 3 point (black top) a couple of year ago. Paid a bit less, didn't need any work, and it is a true HOSS --- even has some bark to it! These torch and wires are something pretty special. Had original leather case (falling apart) but otherwise I cleaned it up and it performs extremely well. Has a beautiful inlayed butterfly in the pickguard, Handels, some crazing on the back which is obviously maple. Seems to be a bit thinner, but wider than my '15 F4.

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