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Thread: DYN-M Preamp

  1. #1
    Registered User Kevin Briggs's Avatar
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    Default DYN-M Preamp

    Hi, EVeryone:

    I use the DYN-M pickup for my mandolin and am very fond of it. It consistently sounds very good, sometimes even when I'm not using an EQ.

    However, I am in search of more control of the tone, as I've been at the mercy of sound guys, PAs with phantom power, a low-end monitor amp I've been using for gigs, etc. I used to have a preamp that had an XLR cable input, and that was awesome. But, when I got a DYN-M it didn't work in that input any more. I tried an adapter for the 1/4 in ch input and that didn't work either.

    Recently, I purchased a LR Baggs preamp that does not have a XLR input. I bought an adapter with it too, and am hoping it woks. If not, I'll be able to use it with my guitar and kt will be a big upgrade for me. However, I'm concerned I'll still be without a mandolin, DYN-M preamp.

    I know I can buy the Schertler, but it's expensive and I've read mixed reviews. Does anyone know why the DYN-M didn't work in my previous preamp? EVerything else I put into that preamp worked, and the DYN-M works when I plug it into other things. DOes anyone have experience using a DYN-M with a LR Baggs preamp? Any thoughts on the Schertler preamp?

    Thanks!

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    Default Re: DYN-M Preamp

    The DYN-M is not a piezo type pickup and will not work with those type of preamps. The input impedance is way different. You would need a a Schertler preamp preferably, or something that would be rated for the impedance of the Schertler.
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    Registered User David Westwick's Avatar
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    Default Re: DYN-M Preamp

    Correct, the impedance of a DYN-M is much lower than a piezo pickup. Electrically, it looks much like a microphone. If you plug into a 1/4" jack, you will probably need to use an impedance transformer to match the low Z of your pickup to the high input impedance of whatever you are plugging into.
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    Default Re: DYN-M Preamp

    It also needs phantom power and is primarily designed to plug into a mixing desk. A “preamp” is only required if you’re intending to plug it into a desk without phantom or some other gizmo without it - it will work fine into an acoustic amp which has an XLR input which is equipped with phantom power.

    Even if you have an amp or a pre-amp, you’ll still be faced with eliminating the sound guy it’s just that you’ll be giving him a higher level signal to work with. The only answer to this is to take your own PA or hire your own sound guy!

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    Registered User Kevin Briggs's Avatar
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    Default Re: DYN-M Preamp

    Thanks, everyone.

    The Schertler is very nice, but considering the price and what I need to do to optimize the sound... Schertler preamp, an impedence transformer... I am officially getting out of the Schertler business. I just placed an order for:

    1. LR Baggs Venue DI Acoustic Preamp EQ/DI/Tuner Pedal https://www.sweetwater.com/store/det...di-tuner-pedal

    2. LR Baggs Radius-M Mandolin Pickup https://www.sweetwater.com/store/det...andolin-pickup

    I've never splurged like this before, except when I initially bought the DYN-M. But, needless to say, I'm excited. I'm going from DYN to piezo, which I'm conditioned to think is a downgrade, but I have faith in LR Baggs, and the preamp looks really sweet. Plus, I'd be lying if I didn't say the Sierra Hull endorsement was a factor, lol.
    Last edited by Kevin Briggs; Sep-12-2019 at 1:13pm. Reason: typo

  6. #6

    Default Re: DYN-M Preamp

    Just saying, there are plenty of people who don't like the Radius. Do a search.
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  8. #7
    Registered User Kevin Briggs's Avatar
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    Default Re: DYN-M Preamp

    Quote Originally Posted by Br1ck View Post
    Just saying, there are plenty of people who don't like the Radius. Do a search.
    Yeah. Thanks, man.

    I checked it out and see pros and cons for each rig. I needed the preamp for my guitar too, so the Schertler DYN-M preamp alone wouldn't solve that. This decision doesn't have to be the end of the road, and it's basically an experiment with the Baggs pickup. If I can't live with it, I can always go back to the Schertler and possibly get into the preamp.

    For now, I can say I've been fiddling around with the Schertler and feeling kind of stuck with it for close to 10 years without the preamp, also knowing some people don't think the Schertler preamp doesn't make much of a difference. I've played in a ton of different settings with different groups, and I feel I have a lack of control over my volume and tone to some degree with the Schertler. So, I'm hanging on to it, but am going to try out the LR Baggs partly because it gets me into that awesome preamp (the Venue).

    We'll see, and I'll be sue to chime back in about it.

  9. #8

    Default Re: DYN-M Preamp

    While it's discontinued, the Zoom A3 has an XLR input along with 1/4" input with a switch to select between mic, piezo, or magnetic pickups. It's got some decent EQ and effects (mic modeling, reverbs, delays, etc.). There's a mute switch for tuning and a boost switch for solos. It seems very solid and well-built and runs on batteries as well as a wall wart. It's also dead quiet. I've been using it with my older Schertler DYN-M and it sounds very natural. I'm very pleased with the tone I get through it. There's an XLR out to send to the board and 1/4" out to send to your amp on stage if you want that. It has a complex and unintuitive menu system, but once you get the sounds you want (you can save several), you don't have to deal with it again.
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  10. #9

    Default Re: DYN-M Preamp

    The pre amp will work for you, and K&Ks won't break the bank. You'll know soon enough if you don't like the Radius. You can return it to Sweetwater easily enough.
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    Registered User Kevin Briggs's Avatar
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    Default Re: DYN-M Preamp

    Quote Originally Posted by Br1ck View Post
    The pre amp will work for you, and K&Ks won't break the bank. You'll know soon enough if you don't like the Radius. You can return it to Sweetwater easily enough.
    Thanks, Br1ck. ARe you saying the LR Baggs Venue pre amp can work with the Schertler? DO i just need to use an Imp Adapter?

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    coprolite mandroid's Avatar
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    Exclamation Re: DYN-M Preamp

    NB: in The current line up from Schertler, there are 2 different Uni pickups ..
    only one, the active P48 needs the Phantom power https://secure.schertler.com/en_US/s...ps/dyn-uni-p48

    the older Dyn M ones do not, nor does the Current passive Dyn Uni https://secure.schertler.com/en_US/shop/pickups/dyn-uni

    the black box Schertler Preamp gives it a local EQ control for a powered monitor channel,
    + a dry channel you would send to the house sound guy..


    I have the older passive Dyn M, It can be used with a Impedance matching transformer that goes from XLR in to a TR 1/4" output and I can use an electric guitar amp.

    In the same manner, a SM 57, 58 dynamic mic can also use a Guitar amp, for say, harmonicas ..


    If you have a sing and play Acoustic 2 channel amp , the Mic channel in the amp has a preamp behind it.

    and ... so does each of a mixer's mic channels...




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    coprolite mandroid's Avatar
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    Default Re: DYN-M Preamp

    the Baggs is expecting a high impedance piezo , you can just buy a stick on piezo pickup with a cord and a 1/4" plug on the end..
    https://deanmarkley.com/collections/...guitar-pickups

    or one of the many piezo pickups that dominate .. Baggs, K&K, Fishman and so forth..

    Mic level low,.. guitar , electric , in the middle, and, Piezo , in the 10 mega ohm range is higher..









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    Registered User Kevin Briggs's Avatar
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    Default Re: DYN-M Preamp

    Thanks so much, mandroid.

    I stuck with the Schertler after all. As I mentioned in my original thread, I love the DYN, and I couldn't help but think I was making an unnecessary mando pickup change just to accomodate my guitar pickup. As it turns out, my guitar has a B-Band pick-up in it, which I've discovered has its own preamp, so when I plugged it into the LR Baggs' Venue it was an overdriven, feedbacking mess. I got it to a level to where it sounded really good, but the volume was an issue. I couldn't turn anything up past halfway without serious feedback.

    I then occurred to me I didn't need the Venue, and therefore didn't need the Radius. So, I sent both back to Sweetwater (great store) and ordered the Schertler Yellow single. So now, I have my guitar w/a B-Band and my mandolin w/a DYN-M and Yellow going into a Yamaha MG10XU mixer, which then goes into the S1. My microphone can go right into the mixer.

    I almost went with a Behringer 6-channel mixer, but Sweetwater sold me on the Yamaha, which was currently in stock.

  16. #14

    Default Re: DYN-M Preamp

    Here is an observation from one who often does sound for an open mic. We have a nice SunnAudio pre amp we use on everything but the Taylor ES equipped guitars. We can make pretty much any piezo equipped guitar sound ok. Even those $400 guitars equipped with undersaddle pickups. What do we have the most trouble with? People with the most control over their own sound. We often have to cut what they have boosted. No one seems to actually cut a frequency. And no matter what we say, volume gets boosted mid stream, which has us going for the fader. All one has to do is ask for what they want to hear in the monitors and we give it to them. The mains get what we want regardless. It is our mission to make people sound as good as we can.

    Maybe there are more bad sound guys than not, but they will do what they are going to do, so you may not be solving any issues. The most fool proof method is to go wireless, and control your mix via iPad by doing your own sound. Walk out and hear what it sounds like in the room.
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    Registered User Kevin Briggs's Avatar
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    Default Re: DYN-M Preamp

    Thanks so much, Br1ck. I appreciate your experience and wisdom on this one.

    For the gigs I play, I often don't have a sound guy, or if I do I try to be as communicative as possible. Frequently, I'm playing with a full band (drums, electric bass, fiddle, banjo, etc.) so I have significant power needs and am often sonically outmatched. One popular place to pay up here is a smallish, narrow bar room, but there'll be a full drum kit in there that doesn't even need to be mic'd. Or, I play with a wicked soprano saxophone player who simply wails on the thing... tons of volume. Sometimes it's an eight-piece band playing soul music, you see? So, my mandolin is the first thing to get buried underneath that dang drum kit and tenor sax, at least in the monitors.

    For those gigs, I intend to bring the DYN-M, the Yellow, and my own monitor, from which I can go out to the PA. I keep everything as low as possible, just enough to give the guy power with which to work, but I won't relent on the ability to hear myself through my own monitor, which is directly in front of me pointing up into my face and ears. In that case, the sound man has to adapt. For smaller gigs, it's really not an issue, and I'm typically my own sound guy, now with my own system. The smaller ones are what I'm most interested in, tonally. Those big gigs are often simply about being loud enough. The intricacies of my tone are not so important.

    Based on what you have to say, I believe I've had some questionable sound guys, so it's like I'm fending for myself. I can say, the Yellow will solve the phantom power issue for the DYN-M, which seems to cause headaches for the sound guys I've worked with.

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    Default Re: DYN-M Preamp

    Just to expand on what Brick has said, whilst there are good and bad sound guys (and I’ve worked on both sides of the mic.) the person on stage is usually in the worst position to hear/assess what’s coming out of the FoH speakers.

    As for piezo pickups, there is a lot of rubbish talked about the merits/de-merits of one compared to another. Piezo technology doesn’t seem to have changed that much since the invention of the telephone. I have a Martin guitar in which I epoxied a Barcus Berry piezo onto the bridge plate in the mid 1970s. Plugged through a decent pre-amp, it sounds just as good as any of the modern whizz bang piezo based pickups.

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    Registered User Kevin Briggs's Avatar
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    Default Re: DYN-M Preamp

    I hear you that it can be tough for the person on stage to hear, but I got finicky about my sound a few years ago after playing some gigs where the sound of whole band was dialed in. It's possible to do, and I now intentionally get a little prickly about it when setting up/sound checking. So, having some more control helps me with my prickliness.

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