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Thread: Youtube and Ookpik Waltz ownership

  1. #1

    Default Youtube and Ookpik Waltz ownership

    I doubt anyone knows the answer to this but I've been working on Ookpik waltz with a student and I've uploaded several unlisted practice videos to share with them. They always get flagged with a copyright claim from "LatinAutor, UNIAO BRASILEIRA DE EDITORAS DE MUSICA - UBEM, LatinAutor - UMPG, and Unidisc Music (Publishing)" which doesn't seem like an obvious owner of the song. They get flagged immediately which seems unusual compared to the time it takes from other videos I upload for students of much more popular material that is current. Maybe one day I won't use Ookpik in the title and see if it's truly an algorithm scanning the content or if it's just using the word "Ookpik".

    I am just curious if anyone happens to now who owns the song. This is just a curiosity more than anything else. It doesn't effect the video so I don't care.

  2. #2
    Registered User Gunnar's Avatar
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    Default Re: Youtube and Ookpik Waltz ownership

    That sounds like a pretty similar claimant to the one that blocked my hotel California video, which also happened immediately, and I also thought it was strange for the owners to be in Brazil.
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  3. #3

    Default Re: Youtube and Ookpik Waltz ownership

    Quote Originally Posted by BillytheB View Post
    ... Ookpik waltz ... flagged with a copyright claim from "LatinAutor, UNIAO BRASILEIRA DE EDITORAS DE MUSICA - UBEM, LatinAutor - UMPG, and Unidisc Music (Publishing)"...
    Quote Originally Posted by Gunnar View Post
    ... blocked my hotel California video, ... strange for the owners to be in Brazil.
    I'd say there's a possibility it's copyright trolls trying to make money off of *your* videos. Here's an older MandolinCafe thread about others' experiences with this sort of thing.

    You can dispute the copyright claim. YouTube makes it easy to do that, just a few clicks (well, at least for videos where some claimant is trying to monetize them - but if the entire video has been pulled then I'm not sure what the procedure would be).

    I've had to dispute fraudulent completely-bogus copyright claims several times in the last few years. Two were from Brazil (for my own arrangements of hundreds-years-old European classical pieces), and another fraudulent claim was from the Netherlands for a MIDI-only chords practice backing track for an American song (last I heard, the Netherlands is not part of the U.S. unless someone has tried to buy it, can't imagine that going over too well.) Anyway, my videos' copyright disputes were all resolved in my favor with no further interaction from me required.

    As to who owns Ookpik Waltz now - not sure, but the original owner/composer was Canadian fiddler Frankie Rodgers. A quick quote from, among other places, TuneArch.org:

    "Despite the rumors of antiquity and Native American provenance, the "Ookpik Waltz" was not derived from indigenous sources but rather is a latter 20th century composition of Mission, British Columbia, fiddler Frankie Rodgers (1936-2009), who published it in a tune book of his compositions. British Columbia fiddlers know the tune book and the source well. It was also first recorded on his (c. 1960's) LP "Maple Sugar, Fiddle Favorites by Canada's Old Time Fiddle King Frankie Rodgers of the Rodgers Brothers Band" (Point P-250). Sheet music of "Ookpik Waltz" was published with a 1965 copyright to Rodgers. The melody has been "folk-processed" since then, but is still recognizably derived from the original."

    Apparently the record label mentioned above, "Point P-250", was also Canadian. Of course I suppose the rights could have been bought out by a Brazil-based outfit, but... I'm doubtful.

    Anyway, here is audio of Ookpik Waltz's actual composer playing it:


    (or direct link)

    Elsewhere on YouTube, I found a different YouTube Ookpik Waltz (cover) that had a weird Brazil copyright claimant - but that might only mean that no one's bothered to contest it yet, or is unaware of the claim.

    Some time ago, I noticed that YouTube stopped sending out email notifications of copyright claims on videos, instead they just silently monetize such videos without bothering to inform the person who'd posted the video. So in order to keep up with that, one has to log into one's YouTube channel periodically and manually check the list of copyright claims to see if any new claims have appeared.

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  5. #4
    Registered User Gunnar's Avatar
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    Default Re: Youtube and Ookpik Waltz ownership

    Thanks for that post, it's helpful. But a few bits of my experience were different, mine was not monetized nor was it removed, it's just currently unavailable for viewing. By anyone. And I received an email from YouTube telling me about it. The linked thread was also helpful
    Mandolin: Kentucky KM150
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    "Imagine life without mandolin. Now slap yourself! Never do it again!" -Gunnar Salyer

  6. #5

    Default Re: Youtube and Ookpik Waltz ownership

    So far I've never seen an ad inserted into any of the videos and nothing is blocked. I was just curious if anyone knew if the rights to the song had been sold to some south american publisher. I've always been curious about the way the scan video content for rights owners. It makes me want to rearrange the song and change some melodic notes and chord qualities to see if it still gets flagged. I don't expect those videos to get more than 50 views at the most and they will likely never be made public.

  7. #6
    Registered User Ranald's Avatar
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    Default Re: Youtube and Ookpik Waltz ownership

    By the way, "Ookpik" is, to my understanding, an Inuit word for snow owl. Stuffed Ookpiks became popular toys in Canada in the early 60's -- my little sister had one. You could try posting the tune as "Snow Owl Waltz", but please teach your students the proper name, and credit Frankie Rodgers. I sincerely doubt that his estate is making any money from what's likely an internet scam.
    Robert Johnson's mother, describing blues musicians:
    "I never did have no trouble with him until he got big enough to be round with bigger boys and off from home. Then he used to follow all these harp blowers, mandoleen (sic) and guitar players."
    Lomax, Alan, The Land where The Blues Began, NY: Pantheon, 1993, p.14.

  8. #7

    Default Re: Youtube and Ookpik Waltz ownership

    Quote Originally Posted by Ranald View Post
    By the way, "Ookpik" is, to my understanding, an Inuit word for snow owl. Stuffed Ookpiks became popular toys in Canada in the early 60's -- my little sister had one. You could try posting the tune as "Snow Owl Waltz", but please teach your students the proper name, and credit Frankie Rodgers. I sincerely doubt that his estate is making any money from what's likely an internet scam.
    I have an Ookpik toy and a children's book that I bring out when I teach that song.

  9. #8

    Default Re: Youtube and Ookpik Waltz ownership

    I believe that tune, as are most composed in the traditional idiom nowadays, is public domain. Scam...

  10. #9
    Registered User Ranald's Avatar
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    Default Re: Youtube and Ookpik Waltz ownership

    Quote Originally Posted by Ranald View Post
    By the way, "Ookpik" is, to my understanding, an Inuit word for snow owl. Stuffed Ookpiks became popular toys in Canada in the early 60's -- my little sister had one. You could try posting the tune as "Snow Owl Waltz", but please teach your students the proper name, and credit Frankie Rodgers. I sincerely doubt that his estate is making any money from what's likely an internet scam.
    That should be "snowy" owl.
    Robert Johnson's mother, describing blues musicians:
    "I never did have no trouble with him until he got big enough to be round with bigger boys and off from home. Then he used to follow all these harp blowers, mandoleen (sic) and guitar players."
    Lomax, Alan, The Land where The Blues Began, NY: Pantheon, 1993, p.14.

  11. #10
    Registered User Gunnar's Avatar
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    Default Re: Youtube and Ookpik Waltz ownership

    My video was unblocked, I think it was a fraudulent claim.
    Mandolin: Kentucky KM150
    Other instruments: way too many, and yet, not nearly enough.

    "Imagine life without mandolin. Now slap yourself! Never do it again!" -Gunnar Salyer

  12. #11

    Default Re: Youtube and Ookpik Waltz ownership

    I also have a video of Ookpik Waltz on Youtube and I never had any problems:

    The sheet music is available for free:http://www.folktunefinder.com/tunes/180488

  13. #12
    Registered User Elliot Luber's Avatar
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    Default Re: Youtube and Ookpik Waltz ownership

    According to a fiddle lesson posted to Youtube, Ookpik, or Ook Pik Waltz was written by Frankie Rodgers and is of Canadian origin.
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  14. #13

    Default Re: Youtube and Ookpik Waltz ownership

    I should be very clear that the video is not blocked. It just has a copyright claim notice that seems to be from a South American based company. I was only curious if anyone else had seen as much. One thing about my video is that the track has a midi bass part that I programmed. It isn't anything special, just root notes. It's not impossible that the progression is the same as something else. I've always been curious about how this stuff is scanned.

    This is a part of the email:

    If this is your performance of a 3rd party song then you can still make money from this video. Click here to change your monetization settings.

    This claim is not penalizing your account status. Visit your Copyright Notice page for more details on the policy applied to your video.

    Thanks for all the input.

    Cheers, BB

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  16. #14
    but that's just me Bertram Henze's Avatar
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    Default Re: Youtube and Ookpik Waltz ownership

    Quote Originally Posted by BillytheB View Post
    If this is your performance of a 3rd party song then you can still make money from this video. Click here to change your monetization settings.

    This claim is not penalizing your account status. Visit your Copyright Notice page for more details on the policy applied to your video.
    I had this two or three times with traditional Irish tunes nobody can claim anything on. I followed the procedure provided by YouTube to controvert the claims and they were withdrawn in considerably short time (don't ask me how to do this, it was too long ago and the user interface is changing all the time). I never understood how this detection system works either.
    the world is better off without bad ideas, good ideas are better off without the world

  17. #15

    Default Re: Youtube and Ookpik Waltz ownership

    Quote Originally Posted by Elliot Luber View Post
    According to a fiddle lesson posted to Youtube, Ookpik, or Ook Pik Waltz was written by Frankie Rodgers and is of Canadian origin.
    Right. As I already said in post 3 above. Am I on your "ignore" list?

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