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Thread: Silverangel Econo A #446

  1. #26

    Default Re: Silverangel Econo A #446

    Stiffer picks can be much louder, like a Red Bear. As for loud mandolins, Audey Ratliff builds loud mandolins, F and A. I have one of each, both CountryBoys. Plain but loud, great BG instruments.
    Play it like you mean it.

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  3. #27
    Registered User William Smith's Avatar
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    Default Re: Silverangel Econo A #446

    Sure you can raise the saddle/bridge screws and it WILL get louder but then you sacrifice tone and playability, all my stuff has as low action as it can go and does just fine, sure I could get more volume out of say my 24 Loar F-5 with Virzi but then I'd sacrifice the playability-to play really fast with precision and the tone. If you play out as in gigs microphones/PA will adjust each instrument for balance anyway and if just a jam at a fest or the like one can tell pretty quick if others that are playing have any experience/ jam etiquette- I think that's the word I'm looking for! "Ya know when your taking your break-others should back off and not beat their instrument to death!"

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  5. #28
    Fingers of Concrete ccravens's Avatar
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    Default Re: Silverangel Econo A #446

    Your Silverangel has more low end than your Eastman, as you've stated, and that is something that some folks find attractive (like myself).

    There's always a trade-off to be had.

    Have fun trying string/pick combinations, and give the mando a little time before you look to buy again, IMO.
    Chris Cravens

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  7. #29
    Registered User Doug Brock's Avatar
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    Default Re: Silverangel Econo A #446

    Quote Originally Posted by ccravens View Post
    Your Silverangel has more low end than your Eastman, as you've stated, and that is something that some folks find attractive (like myself).

    There's always a trade-off to be had.

    Have fun trying string/pick combinations, and give the mando a little time before you look to buy again, IMO.
    Yes, the lower end is nice. I just didn't realize that I might be losing the ability to be heard in my group. Really, I don't mind having the Econo A even if it doesn't end up working for my group. The mandolin does have a rich tone. I raised the bridge last night and that as expected increased volume and improved the tone of the E and A strings, but at the expense of playability and intonation. I'll have to do some more experimenting to try to find the best balance of settings for this mandolin.
    Doug Brock
    Eastman MD315, Silverangel Econo A #446
    Pisgah Wonder, Martin HD28, Martin D18GE, CA Guitars Bluegrass Performer

  8. #30
    Registered User Doug Brock's Avatar
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    Default Re: Silverangel Econo A #446

    [QUOTE=KoalaBear;1732971]
    Quote Originally Posted by RobP View Post
    I recommend trying several different pick shapes, materials. And thicknesses. It seems like every mandolin is a bit different in what it takes to coax the best sound out.

    Excellent mando.Agree about picks.Ken sent me the thick ` Golden Gate Picks` available from Amazon.Why don't you give these a try and see whether the volume is to your liking.The picks are affordable and not expensive these give me all I need on my Econo,Davy Stuart Mando,Kentucky 150 and the new Ken creation IL Fantasma.


    Tani

    www.reverbnation.com/gaetanobevilacqua
    I didnít like the golden gate at all. Its response seemed muted, and I didnít seem to have the control Iím used to. I did go through my stack of picks and the Primetone 1.5mm had the best volume and tone.
    Doug Brock
    Eastman MD315, Silverangel Econo A #446
    Pisgah Wonder, Martin HD28, Martin D18GE, CA Guitars Bluegrass Performer

  9. #31
    Isolated enthusiast Caleb's Avatar
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    Default Re: Silverangel Econo A #446

    Beautiful mandolin. Really love the pickguard too. Play it in good health!
    "The only people who achieve much are those who want knowledge so badly
    that they seek it while the conditions are still unfavourable.
    Favourable conditions never come."
    -C.S. Lewis, Learning in Wartime

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  11. #32

    Default Re: Silverangel Econo A #446

    [QUOTE=Doug Brock;1733156]
    Quote Originally Posted by KoalaBear View Post
    I didnít like the golden gate at all. Its response seemed muted, and I didnít seem to have the control Iím used to. I did go through my stack of picks and the Primetone 1.5mm had the best volume and tone.
    Thanks Doug.Will compare.

    Tani

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  13. #33
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    Default Re: Silverangel Econo A #446

    The thing is bass or lower notes just don't seem as loud. Turn the mids and highs up on a PA and it will sound louder. Another way to say it a 100 watt PA will worh in a very large room and be heard all over if you don't want to hear bass. The mandolin will probably balance out and seem louder as it is played, if it don't balance out it is not one that I would want. Balance is what separates the good from the great in my opinion.

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  15. #34
    Registered User Doug Brock's Avatar
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    Default Re: Silverangel Econo A #446

    Quote Originally Posted by Mandoplumb View Post
    The thing is bass or lower notes just don't seem as loud. Turn the mids and highs up on a PA and it will sound louder. Another way to say it a 100 watt PA will worh in a very large room and be heard all over if you don't want to hear bass. The mandolin will probably balance out and seem louder as it is played, if it don't balance out it is not one that I would want. Balance is what separates the good from the great in my opinion.
    I raised the bridge and, as expected, volume improved (but at the expense of some intonation and playability). I lowered the bridge a bit and am pretty happy with the results now. I'm wondering if the nut slots for the E and A courses are a little low. They seemed to be about 0.008" above the first fret, based on my feeler gauges; recommendations I found online were for more like 0.011". The strings weren't buzzing, but they felt like they were somewhat damped. The effect didn't change between open string and fretted string. When I raised the bridge, that damped sound went away and the E and A courses were much fuller sounding and louder. I spent the evening playing up and down the neck and was much happier with balance and volume. I'm thinking about having Mass Street Music do a setup just to make sure things are set up optimally. If the nut slots were a little less deep, then maybe the bridge could be lowered some?
    Doug Brock
    Eastman MD315, Silverangel Econo A #446
    Pisgah Wonder, Martin HD28, Martin D18GE, CA Guitars Bluegrass Performer

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    Default Re: Silverangel Econo A #446

    [QUOTE=Doug Brock;1733156]
    Quote Originally Posted by KoalaBear View Post
    I didn’t like the golden gate at all. Its response seemed muted, and I didn’t seem to have the control I’m used to. I did go through my stack of picks and the Primetone 1.5mm had the best volume and tone.

    I'm not surprised that you liked the Primetone 1.5mm. I have been through many pick types (as I'm sure many of us have). On my Collings, the Primetone was too bright for me, but the Collings tends to be on the brigher side - the Proplec seems to balance a bit more towards the low end; Golden Gate was similar. If you are trying to go the other way, the Primetone is a good fit.
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  18. #36
    Fingers of Concrete ccravens's Avatar
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    Default Re: Silverangel Econo A #446

    Quote Originally Posted by Doug Brock View Post
    I raised the bridge and, as expected, volume improved (but at the expense of some intonation and playability). I lowered the bridge a bit and am pretty happy with the results now. I'm wondering if the nut slots for the E and A courses are a little low. They seemed to be about 0.008" above the first fret, based on my feeler gauges; recommendations I found online were for more like 0.011". The strings weren't buzzing, but they felt like they were somewhat damped. The effect didn't change between open string and fretted string. When I raised the bridge, that damped sound went away and the E and A courses were much fuller sounding and louder. I spent the evening playing up and down the neck and was much happier with balance and volume. I'm thinking about having Mass Street Music do a setup just to make sure things are set up optimally. If the nut slots were a little less deep, then maybe the bridge could be lowered some?
    Sounds like you are starting to get things dialed in. A set up at Mass Street would be great.

    I've had mandolins and guitars that I loved the tone of, but didn't necessarily cut thru as well in a jam.
    Chris Cravens

    Girouard A5 Mandolin
    Montana Flatiron A-Jr.
    Girouard A Mandola
    Leo Posch D-18

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  20. #37
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    Default Re: Silverangel Econo A #446

    Quote Originally Posted by ccravens View Post
    Sounds like you are starting to get things dialed in. A set up at Mass Street would be great.

    I've had mandolins and guitars that I loved the tone of, but didn't necessarily cut thru as well in a jam.
    And the opposite. I had a Collings MT briefly that was a beautiful and easy playing instrument, but I didn't play it a ton at home; I actually kept my Econo over it because I preferred the tone. But, the Collings cut through the din of a jam very well...

    For the record, I like Collings' stuff and don't mean the above comment as a slight. But, I tend to prefer more of their MT2 tone to the MT...suspect it's the red spruce vs Engleman, though I've played numerous Engleman topped guitars and mandos that I like...
    Chuck

  21. #38
    My Florida is scooped pheffernan's Avatar
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    Default Re: Silverangel Econo A #446

    Quote Originally Posted by CES View Post
    And the opposite. I had a Collings MT briefly that was a beautiful and easy playing instrument, but I didn't play it a ton at home; I actually kept my Econo over it because I preferred the tone. But, the Collings cut through the din of a jam very well.
    My experience was similar. My Silverangel was a pleasure to pay in a quiet room but got a bit lost in the din of many instruments. My Collings could cut through the mix but was a bit shrill for solo play. I never thought of the difference as volume per se, just differently voiced.
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  23. #39
    I really look like that soliver's Avatar
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    Default Re: Silverangel Econo A #446

    Maybe it's the cedar top on mine, but it has LOTS of volume. Like all Ken's instruments it favors the low end, but it still cuts through at the Jam and I don't have any issues with it getting lost in the fray.

    Doug, share a video clip with us! We wanna hear your new toy!!!
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  25. #40

    Default Re: Silverangel Econo A #446

    This reminds me of the back and forth people do when discussing single coil vs humbuckers electric guitar pickups. One person's fat is another's muddy. One person's thin is another's clear. Unless you overwealmingly favor one over the other, you need both. Any mandolin in the middle will be a compromise, not necessarily a bad thing, but you will come across some with a warmer resonant tone, some with a loud cutting tone. I guess you really need three mandolins just to cover the tonal range of f styles alone. Then you need three ovals, a pancake, an old Gibson and a modern instrument like an MTO.

    I'm hoping for middle ground on my new f style build.
    Silverangel A
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  27. #41
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    Default Re: Silverangel Econo A #446

    Quote Originally Posted by Br1ck View Post
    This reminds me of the back and forth people do when discussing single coil vs humbuckers electric guitar pickups. One person's fat is another's muddy. One person's thin is another's clear. Unless you overwealmingly favor one over the other, you need both. Any mandolin in the middle will be a compromise, not necessarily a bad thing, but you will come across some with a warmer resonant tone, some with a loud cutting tone. I guess you really need three mandolins just to cover the tonal range of f styles alone. Then you need three ovals, a pancake, an old Gibson and a modern instrument like an MTO.

    I'm hoping for middle ground on my new f style build.
    ha, truth right here. I think you pretty much summed up the entire thought process but dangit why did you have to go and say that, you made me wanna spend more money now!

  28. #42
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    Default Re: Silverangel Econo A #446

    Before I sold it to a friend who needed a mandolin I would take a mandolin that was louder, but not as rich sounding, to a jam. I found that in a jam you won't hear the quality of sound anyway so who cares. Both played well and the louder one was easier as I didn't have to work as hard. A small jam I would definitely take my better sounding mandolin. If the jam is large take what cuts thru, if it is small take the one that sounds best.
    THE WORLD IS A BETTER PLACE JUST FOR YOUR SMILE!

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  30. #43

    Default Re: Silverangel Econo A #446

    Quote Originally Posted by CBFrench View Post
    ha, truth right here. I think you pretty much summed up the entire thought process but dangit why did you have to go and say that, you made me wanna spend more money now!
    I have to confess, I belong to a secret society that pays me $.000396 for each extra mandolin I help sell. So far I have $6,743,488.13 in my account. Many addicts are out there. I get paid double for each upgrade that doubled the expenditure of the last bought mandolin. So please, if you have a $4000 mandolin, buy an $8000 mandolin. It is not hard to justify, and you know you want to.
    Silverangel A
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