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Thread: Cliff Sargent mandolin

  1. #1
    Moderator MikeEdgerton's Avatar
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    Default Cliff Sargent mandolin

    The old timers will know who Cliff Sargent was but we get new members daily that may or may not know about this builder.

    One of his mandolins is currently in the Classifieds. NFI.

    https://www.mandolincafe.com/ads/142964#142964

    If you'd like to know more about Mr. Sargent and his mandolins scan through these past threads. I'd love to own one.
    "It's comparable to playing a cheese slicer."
    --M. Stillion

    "Bargain instruments are no bargains if you can't play them"
    --J. Garber

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  3. #2
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    Default Re: Cliff Sargent mandolin

    That thing sounds great, wish I have the extra cash laying around.
    THE WORLD IS A BETTER PLACE JUST FOR YOUR SMILE!

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    Default Re: Cliff Sargent mandolin

    I remember seeing Cliff at the Grass Valley festivals in CA at the luthier’s pavilion and guys like Ronnie McCoury stopping by to check out his instruments. Cliff was always friendly to tire kickers like me.

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    Default Re: Cliff Sargent mandolin

    At a Louisville IBMA Loar-fest in the late 90's, Cliff was in attendance. Steve Gilchrist was speaking to a group of Loar owners. All of a sudden, we heard a loud clatter in the back. Cliff had dropped one of his mandolins. You could have heard a pin drop.

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  7. #5
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    Default Re: Cliff Sargent mandolin

    Quote Originally Posted by AlanN View Post
    At a Louisville IBMA Loar-fest in the late 90's, Cliff was in attendance. Steve Gilchrist was speaking to a group of Loar owners. All of a sudden, we heard a loud clatter in the back. Cliff had dropped one of his mandolins. You could have heard a pin drop.
    I was at that IBMA show and remember Cliff carrying one of his mandolins around. I thought he had an older Gibson but he told me he had made it.

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    Default Re: Cliff Sargent mandolin

    Yep, he was one of the later builders to still craft mandolins with The Gibson inlay in the headstock. His instruments sounded great, as does this one.

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    Default Re: Cliff Sargent mandolin

    Thought I would share a picture of my Cliff Sargent Loar copy to this thread. It is one great mandolin.Click image for larger version. 

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    Default Re: Cliff Sargent mandolin

    Well, that's a beauty.

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    Default Re: Cliff Sargent mandolin

    I had the great pleasure of meeting Cliff when he moved from CA to Missoula MT where I was living, somewhere about 1980 - 81. Funny, I had gotten a phone call from him, I didn't know who he was but he knew my name, and wanted to come over and show me a mandolin he had made. I was really impressed by the sound of his mando, I believe he continued to concentrate on the finer details of his instruments as time went by. But most of all I was impressed by Cliff himself, a real gentleman, with great stories to tell, and always ready to help anyone out. He came over to my place once to repair a broken valve spring on my pickup engine, totally his idea without my asking, then wouldn't charge me a dime. Cliff was truly an old school class act who made wonderful instruments.

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  14. #10
    music with whales Jim Nollman's Avatar
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    Default Re: Cliff Sargent mandolin

    I just traded one of my mandolins for a cliff Sargent built f5. The one I am getting is built with a sierra label, signed by cliff. Reading all the accolades on the cafe about cliff's skill as a builder, I am quite excited to get one for myself.
    Explore some of my published music here.

    —Jim

    Sierra F5 #30 (2005)
    Altman 2-point (2007)
    Portuguese fado cittern (1965)

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  16. #11

    Default Re: Cliff Sargent mandolin

    I'd be exited about that too Jim. Please let us know how you like it when you've had a chance to try it out for a while.
    "I play BG so that's what I can talk intelligently about." A line I loved and pirated from Mandoplumb

  17. #12
    Moderator MikeEdgerton's Avatar
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    Default Re: Cliff Sargent mandolin

    Please post some pictures when you get it.
    "It's comparable to playing a cheese slicer."
    --M. Stillion

    "Bargain instruments are no bargains if you can't play them"
    --J. Garber

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  19. #13
    music with whales Jim Nollman's Avatar
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    Default Re: Cliff Sargent mandolin

    Thanks for the interest. I’ll post some photos soon. Promise.

    I have been seeking an F5 for some time now. I wanted something classic sounding, pretty, but not too expensive since I’m an old guy whose public playing days are over. In the past few months, as mandolin prices keep rising, I decided my only hope might be to offer a trade for my BRW 3-point oval hole. It would be a hard sell because it was built to play single note jazz or choro, and so many mandolin players are enamored of bluegrass. Then again, my BRW is one of the most beautifully designed mandolins in creation.

    A few weeks ago someone on one of the Facebook mandolin sites posted an ad to sell a BRW f5. I posted some pics of my 3-point and asked if he/she would be willing to trade. That was a strong negative. But a week later someone else chimed in to me directly, offering to trade a Sierra mandolin. I'd never hear of the brand. So I did what I always do, I dd some research on the cafe.

    What I learned convinced me to do the trade. Cliff Sargent seemed to be a kind of a legendary character around here, a guy who spent years learning to build a mirror image of his own cherished Loar. A man after my own heart. If the mandolin measured up halfway to the story, I knew this #30 Sierra would be a monster. How many mandolins did he build with his partner, Bernstein?

    Like my BRW, The Sierra f5 mandolin I received is about 20 years old, with some varnish rubbed off the back, as if it had suffered in a relationship with a belt buckle. The tuners aren’t flashy but functional, lightweight, , and at some point I may replace them with Rubners with ebony buttons. The tailpiece is cheap but functional. I haven’t owned a mandolin in 15 years without a James tailpiece, so I’ll also change that. The strings are monel mediums, which, along with siminoffs, is one of my own favorites these days. I have no idea what kind of spruce. The back and sides are beautiful fiddleback maple. The finish is classic old Lloyd Loar. It has a Cumberland bridge which is always a bonus. The pick guard is too big for me,I suppose it is also classic, but merely plastic. I have a small stash of rosewood to make one myself.

    It plays easy as pie, low but not super-low action. And the tone…whoa. It has this organic woody tone that I’ve never experienced so clearly in any mandolin I’ve owned. To my ears, most F5s i've played, and there are many, both cheap and expensive, are either dry or throaty. What mostly makes them great is to be strong in that quality across the entire fingerboard. It’s hard to describe in words, but this Sierra is dry, somewhat throaty, indescribably woody, (marimba comes to mind) and completely strong across all the octaves. It’s kind of incredible. And I haven’t stopped playing it since I received it yesterday morning.

    That depth of tone makes me a better listener. Yesterday I started playing “Squirrel Hunters” and that tone somehow sucked me into swapping out the original scale and rhythm for something that kind of makes it sound like something composed by Eric Satie. This kind of swapping is something I started doing on the 3-point because of its ability to enunciate the notes so well. It looks like this Chris Sargent instrument has that same quality.
    Explore some of my published music here.

    —Jim

    Sierra F5 #30 (2005)
    Altman 2-point (2007)
    Portuguese fado cittern (1965)

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  21. #14
    music with whales Jim Nollman's Avatar
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    Default Re: Cliff Sargent mandolin

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    Explore some of my published music here.

    —Jim

    Sierra F5 #30 (2005)
    Altman 2-point (2007)
    Portuguese fado cittern (1965)

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  23. #15

    Default Re: Cliff Sargent mandolin

    Thanks for the update, detailed review and pics! After six days had passed I was beginning to wonder if there had been some setback.
    Glad all is well. i think Cliff Sargent built some great mandolins.
    "I play BG so that's what I can talk intelligently about." A line I loved and pirated from Mandoplumb

  24. #16
    music with whales Jim Nollman's Avatar
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    Default Re: Cliff Sargent mandolin

    I just had some work done on my Sargent F5. Thought some of you might like to see it.

    The work was done by Bob Warren, a luthier with whom i've been working with for 20 years. The most time consuming job was installing new frets. I went with thin, gold frets, mostly because they works so well with the low action and single note playing I prefer.

    Bob also installed a zero fret which i've had him add to every mandolin he's serviced for me since the start of our collaboration. It looks great peaking out under the original pearl nut. I highly recommend zero frets.

    All the loose binding was reglued. The bridge had been wobbly when i received it, so Bob re-shaved the bottom to sit perfectly on the top plate. He also sanded and polished out most of the surface scars added by years of hard playing by the previous owner.

    A belt scar on the bottom plate, i asked him to leave as is. To do it right, he would have had to completely refinish the bottom. Instead he lightly sanded down the back and polished it with a coat of shellac. It looks great. And maple is protected.

    Lastly, I got rid of the original, plastic pickguard. Bob replaced it with a "finger rest", made from a piece of cocobolo, then bound it with maple.

    Unexpectedly, Bob's perfect setup makes it clear that i need to use better strings. When i tune the E strings so there is no pulsing, i notice that the two E strings are not actually matched. They start out ringing in perfect synchrony, but the decay is uneven. I intuit that this may be a problem somewhat unique to exemplary F-5s. The sound is so glassy and explosive, that the decay shows off its flaws. I suspect that a set of midrange monels, or siminoffs will solve that unexpected problem.

    Click image for larger version. 

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    Explore some of my published music here.

    —Jim

    Sierra F5 #30 (2005)
    Altman 2-point (2007)
    Portuguese fado cittern (1965)

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