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Thread: If You Don't Perform In Public....

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    Registered User JAK's Avatar
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    Default If You Don't Perform In Public....

    If you don't perform in public, why would you want a Gibson Lloyd Loar, Gilchrist, Red Diamond, or any other high-end/high-cost mandolin?
    John A. Karsemeyer

  2. #2

    Default Re: If You Don't Perform In Public....

    1. Pride of ownership
    2. To be one of the cool kids.
    3. Good sound.
    4. History
    5. Some place to "park" your savings.
    6. Bragging rights (see #1)

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    Default Re: If You Don't Perform In Public....

    The cost to buy a Red Diamond for me (i.e. two month's worth of my take-home pay) is one month's disposable spending money for some people. No big deal, spend it, get what you want, it won't lose very much value, if any at all. Not a bad way to spend your disposable income.

    Or, you get enough enjoyment out of a good, well-crafted instrument, that you save up and buy the one(s) you want. Also a good way to do it. Either way has value, we're not talking about expensive whiskey or boats which are money pits. Pay a fair price, you probably won't do too badly. As long as you're not racking up the credit card and getting yourself and/or family into trouble, go for it.

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    Default Re: If You Don't Perform In Public....

    There are people who own all the above and can't play a lick! To them its collectable art and investment!

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    Registered Muser dang's Avatar
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    Default Re: If You Don't Perform In Public....

    Quote Originally Posted by JAK View Post
    If you don't perform in public, why would you want a Gibson Lloyd Loar, Gilchrist, Red Diamond, or any other high-end/high-cost mandolin?
    I feel the opposite, if I had one of those I would keep it at home and play a cheaper mandolin at the bars...

    Unless you mean “classy” gigs where you can actually use a microphone and get a decent sound
    I don’t seem to get those gigs.
    I should be pickin' rather than postin'

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    Innocent Bystander JeffD's Avatar
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    Default Re: If You Don't Perform In Public....

    Quote Originally Posted by JAK View Post
    If you don't perform in public, why would you want a Gibson Lloyd Loar, Gilchrist, Red Diamond, or any other high-end/high-cost mandolin?
    Because, on average, they sound better and can play better.

    Your question makes the tacit assumption that the only reason one owns a high end mandolin i to be seen with it. I don't think by and large that is true.
    Indulge responsibly!

    The entire staff
    funny....

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    Some Ability - No Talent MikeZito's Avatar
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    Default Re: If You Don't Perform In Public....

    First and foremost - I do not own a high-end mandolin, and most likely never will . . . unless someday I come across a nice Gilchrist at Goodwill for $100 - but I'm not holding my breath on that one.

    Anyhow - when I buy a really good instrument I do it for my own pleasure - and not strictly for the purposes of playing out. I get great personal pleasure out of playing and hearing a nice instrument, even if I am the only one who can hear it when I am locked away, all by myself, in my own little music room.

    In the end - I play music because I love music - whether it is in front of an audience, or (most of the time) I am all alone. It is something vaguely reminiscent of the old Mama Cass song:

    You've got to make your own kind of music,
    Sing your own special song,
    even if nobody else sings along.


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    Default Re: If You Don't Perform In Public....

    I mostly play mandolin for my own enjoyment; it's fun, pretty cathartic, reflective, and usually it's the Gibson I pull out for this purpose. But my MK, which is really my backup mandolin, is almost as fun. They are both as similarly setup as possible, they are both good looking in their own way and they both have their own good sound. But the woods, simplistic appointments and dark finish of my F-9 are just way more seductive.

    That's not to say I don't ever play mandolin at all in public, but most of the time when we're jamming or gigging, I'm playing a different instrument (banjo or double bass).

    Which one would you choose to play?



    -- Don

    "It is a lot more fun to make music than it is to argue about it."

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    Default Re: If You Don't Perform In Public....

    I know cyclists who will never win races who buy $500 wheels. When they are out on their Sunday 50 mile ride they enjoy the performance, just like the guy out shooting skeet enjoys that premium 12 gauge, the fly fisherman enjoys that special rod, and the cook their $7000 range and LeCruset pots.

    Certain things bring us joy, and some, like art, don't really do anything but make us happy.

    Owning a fine instrument has little to do with playing it well.
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    Default Re: If You Don't Perform In Public....

    Quote Originally Posted by JAK View Post
    If you don't perform in public ...
    Huh? The question sort of implies that "the public" is impressed by high-end mandolins, which I highly doubt is accurate, at least among the several hundred million NOT currently registered as Cafe members. While the majority of "the public" has probably heard the name Gibson, most have never heard of Loar, Gilchrist, Red Diamond, or any other high-end/high-cost little guitar.
    - Ed

    "What our group lacks in musicianship is offset by our willingness to humiliate ourselves." - David Hochman

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    Out of tune HappyPickin's Avatar
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    Default Re: If You Don't Perform In Public....

    Answer: Because want and need are not the same thing.

    I play a mandolin way beyond my pay grade because I like it.
    Out of tune and out of time.

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    Default Re: If You Don't Perform In Public....

    Quote Originally Posted by EdHanrahan View Post
    Huh? The question sort of implies that "the public" is impressed by high-end mandolins, which I highly doubt is accurate, at least among the several hundred million NOT currently registered as Cafe members. While the majority of "the public" has probably heard the name Gibson, most have never heard of Loar, Gilchrist, Red Diamond, or any other high-end/high-cost little guitar.
    Very good point .
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    Default Re: If You Don't Perform In Public....

    What's performing in public have to do with it ? I doubt of ninety percent plus of the public have even heard of Lloyd Loar ! And even less have heard of Ellis, Gilchrist, Girouard, Red Diamond, etc ! But, back to your question of why own such an instrument ? Because you can ! Why drive a Mercedes or BMW when a Chevy will get you just as good from point A to point B ? Various reasons but one is because you can ! I know people who raised several children in a small one bath house but when all their kids left home the parents either built or bought a larger home with several baths and more room ! Why? Because they can afford it now I suppose and perhaps they are waiting for all those grand kids to visit !
    Last edited by yankees1; Aug-12-2019 at 5:48am.
    My two favorite pastimes are drinking wine and playing the mandolin but most of my friends would rather hear me drink wine! Adapted from quote by Mark Twain------supposedly !

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    Default Re: If You Don't Perform In Public....

    Performing in public is not the end goal for me. I have done it in the past and it was fine, but kind of like a second job that took a lot of my time away from home.

    I play music for my own enjoyment and I want the best instrument I can afford with which to do it.
    "All of us contain Music & Truth, but most of us can't get it out." - Mark Twain

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    Some Ability - No Talent MikeZito's Avatar
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    Default Re: If You Don't Perform In Public....

    Quote Originally Posted by dhergert View Post
    . . . it's the Gibson I pull out for this purpose. But my MK, which is really my backup mandolin, is almost as fun. Which one would you choose to play?
    Hey Don:

    That Gibson is a real beauty . . . simple but classic.

    Congrats!

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  27. #16

    Default Re: If You Don't Perform In Public....

    Man, a good instrument inspires you to play! It’s that simple (to me).

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    Default Re: If You Don't Perform In Public....

    When I go to a local jam and I see folks that have not been playing very long playing very expensive instruments it warms my heart. They have what they want and at some point in time those instruments will be passed along to future generations of musicians. If the only people that ever bought decent instruments were performing artists there wouldn't be any vintage market.

    With that said, I like nice things. I admire folks that can drive the same car or truck for 40 years and keep it running but I find myself buying a new car every now and then.
    "Bargain instruments are no bargains if you can't play them". These are the words of J. Garber.

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    Default Re: If You Don't Perform In Public....

    Quote Originally Posted by MikeEdgerton View Post
    ... If the only people that ever bought decent instruments were performing artists ...
    I have a theory about that, and I think most professional full time musicians recognize it... I have a number of friends in full time music or music related professions, often traveling bands who talk about it with me often.

    It's us part-time closet musicians, from all walks of music, who really keep the music industry going. It's the non-pro people like most of us who enjoy music well enough to buy things like instruments and albums and music books and tickets to festivals and music cruises and everything else that we buy because we love music, that keep it going for all of the music producers, suppliers, builders, writers, promoters, performers and everyone else somehow related to the music industry.

    It's us, the back-porch jammers, the locals, the part-timers, the keep-your-day-jobbers, the retirees, the pay-to-players, the shower-singers, the music-in-the-car on the way to work people, the everyday people who love music enough to pay for it in one way or another, who keep it all going.

    Anyway, having a house full of instruments is sort of a happy thing.
    -- Don

    "It is a lot more fun to make music than it is to argue about it."

    2002 Gibson F-9
    2016 MK LFSTB
    1975 Suzuki taterbug
    (plus a large assortment of banjos, dobros, guitars, basses and other noisemakers)
    [About how I tune my mandolins]
    [7/29/2019 -- New Arrival!!!]

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    Default Re: If You Don't Perform In Public....

    Quote Originally Posted by MikeEdgerton View Post
    When I go to a local jam and I see folks that have not been playing very long playing very expensive instruments it warms my heart. They have what they want and at some point in time those instruments will be passed along to future generations of musicians. If the only people that ever bought decent instruments were performing artists there wouldn't be any vintage market.

    With that said, I like nice things. I admire folks that can drive the same car or truck for 40 years and keep it running but I find myself buying a new car every now and then.

    Thanks for your kind thoughts about us newbies Mike. I've only been playing mando for 3 years but if I could afford it, would definitely go for a high end mando on the basis of sound quality, even if I don't play in public.

    I've been playing flute since school, many moons ago, so although I'm a very late comer to mando, playing flute requires intense listening to your sound on the fly so you become very aware of the quality of sound produced by instruments, even if you can't play them well yet. Can't and probably won't ever afford a Lloyd Loar Gibson but have just invested in a second hand Weber Bitterroot as an upgrade.

    I've found like many here that the mando is completely addictive - the flutes have been shut in their cupboard for about 2 years now!

    Incidentally I have been driving the same car for 34 years - bought a VW Beetle in the 80's to have a couple of summers fun with. It stayed and is now worth much more than I paid for it.....so I guess I've saved a bit of future mando upgrade money there!

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    Default Re: If You Don't Perform In Public....

    Why own a Lloyd Loar Gibson? Well. just because.
    1917 Gibson A-3, '64 Martin A, 2016 Rhodes F5R.

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    Default Re: If You Don't Perform In Public....

    I only recently picked up my 'high end' mandolin. I wanted it because it was my ideal mandolin for a long time and in Summer last year I realised I could afford it. As my teacher and a wise friend told me, it is worth it even if I am not at the point of playing in public yet because it will inspire me to play and practice more. That has proven true because I honestly cannot put it down. That said, I followed my teacher's advice and got a pickup included in the build as someday I probably will play in public (whenever i feel i am good enough and get over my fear of it). In addition, my new mandolin is set up better and is far easier to play than all my previous mandolins.
    Paul Shippey Tone Mandolin
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    Default Re: If You Don't Perform In Public....

    Quote Originally Posted by JAK View Post
    If you don't perform in public, why would you want a Gibson Lloyd Loar, Gilchrist, Red Diamond, or any other high-end/high-cost mandolin?
    Because it makes the owner happy.

    Why do people that are 75 drive hot looking convertibles?
    Why does every run-down trailer park have at least one tricked out mini-truck hooked up to a $60K bass boat?
    Why do some people that don't cook well own pricey Japanese knives for cutting vegetables?
    Why own a Martin D-45 when a $100 clunker from Wal-Mart plays the same chords?
    Why have the best season tickets to a team when you can watch the game from anywhere or on TV?
    Why drive a nice, new car when a total POS will get you to work just as reliably?
    Why have a nice house when a cinder brick hut will keep you safe from the elements?
    Why vacation in Europe when there's Branson?

    So many answers to so many questions that will never be understood.

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    Default Re: If You Don't Perform In Public....

    Quote Originally Posted by dhergert View Post
    I have a theory about that, and I think most professional full time musicians recognize it... I have a number of friends in full time music or music related professions, often traveling bands who talk about it with me often.

    It's us part-time closet musicians, from all walks of music, who really keep the music industry going. It's the non-pro people like most of us who enjoy music well enough to buy things like instruments and albums and music books and tickets to festivals and music cruises and everything else that we buy because we love music, that keep it going for all of the music producers, suppliers, builders, writers, promoters, performers and everyone else somehow related to the music industry.

    It's us, the back-porch jammers, the locals, the part-timers, the keep-your-day-jobbers, the retirees, the pay-to-players, the shower-singers, the music-in-the-car on the way to work people, the everyday people who love music enough to pay for it in one way or another, who keep it all going.

    Anyway, having a house full of instruments is sort of a happy thing.
    This is true of many hobbies. I also road race cars. The pros are great to watch, but many of those started in the amateur ranks with the SCCA (Sports Car Club of America) Many more amateurs than pros race every week and now they have track days, where you can ring out your sports car on a professional track for little money.

    Same goes for golf. It is the weekend duffer that keeps the sport alive.

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    Default Re: If You Don't Perform In Public....

    I went to a local store a couple of years ago to check a Collings MT2 they had listed. Turns out it had already sold. I played a few others out of curiosity. It came up in conversation that I play in church, and the salesperson said, “Why would you ever want a Collings to play in church?!? Get an Eastman or something for that!” Caught me a little off guard, admittedly. It turns out they thought I’d be leaving it at church, on stage out on a stand. If that were the case, yes, I’d leave my 315 there, but I bring my babies home with me, lol.

    I’m not good enough to justify spending top tier dollars based on my present financial situation, and I have all the mandolin I really need in my Kelley A5. But, when the kids are out of school, who knows?
    Chuck

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    Certified! Bernie Daniel's Avatar
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    Default Re: If You Don't Perform In Public....

    Quote Originally Posted by JAK View Post
    If you don't perform in public, why would you want a Gibson Lloyd Loar, Gilchrist, Red Diamond, or any other high-end/high-cost mandolin?
    Because.
    Bernie
    ____
    Due to current budgetary restrictions the light at the end of the tunnel has been turned off -- sorry about the inconvenience.

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