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Thread: Beware EVOs

  1. #26
    Lurkist dhergert's Avatar
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    Default Re: Beware EVOs

    Quote Originally Posted by Roccus View Post
    I can assure you this was not a bogus post. I was as surprised as anyone to hear a difference in the unfretted tone. I can only explain it by the fact that EVOs were wider thereby increasing the mass and also that the harder metal may have had an impact. The harder metal certainly affected the tone when fretted causing metallic overtones especially when not fretted right behind the fret. My repair person did an excellent job of installing the EVOs as well as the nickel silver replacements. No problem there.

    If you question my experience with mandolins, in over 40 years of playing mandolin, I've owned a Gibson F5l as well as numerous A models, a Gibson H4, Gilchrist model 5, Duff F5 and an 80's Kentucky KM1500. I've played several Loars, a Dudenbostel, Monteleone, Givens, Stiver and on and on. I know what mandolins sound like and what kind of tone I want. I just want let others benefit from my experience and not have to pay for a second fret job. As I said I read many positive reports on these frets so I'm sure they work well for others but bear in mind there is at least one exception.
    Thank you for posting again about this...

    I had no question about your experience since you identified your mandolin as a Duff. It takes wisdom to appreciate less widely known names.

    And I can appreciate that it's fully possible that an extremely live instrument could amplify overtones from different kinds of frets, everything else being equal. I've not seen it in mine, but each of these instruments is different from the next.

    Did your repair person have any interesting thoughts to share about your experiences?
    -- Don

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  2. #27
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    Default Re: Beware EVOs

    Thinking I might've misspoke—could've been stainless steel Collings didn't care for.

    Quote Originally Posted by Doug Brock View Post
    The Music Emporium has a new honey amber Collings MF and a used (2008) honey amber Collings MF with gold EVO frets (and Waverly tuners). Somebody needs to try them both and report back.

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    https://themusicemporium.com/mandoli...mber-gloss-top
    https://themusicemporium.com/mandoli...f_natural_2008

  3. #28

    Default Re: Beware EVOs

    Quote Originally Posted by dhergert View Post
    Thank you for posting again about this...

    I had no question about your experience since you identified your mandolin as a Duff. It takes wisdom to appreciate less widely known names.

    And I can appreciate that it's fully possible that an extremely live instrument could amplify overtones from different kinds of frets, everything else being equal. I've not seen it in mine, but each of these instruments is different from the next.

    Did your repair person have any interesting thoughts to share about your experiences?
    Yes, I think you're on to something there. I do think the Duff is exceptionally responsive and may accentuate the metallic quality of the EVOs. My repair guy is also a builder of fine guitars and uses the EVOs on them with no issues. He does agree with me regarding the tone changes on the Duff.

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  5. #29
    harvester of clams Bill McCall's Avatar
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    Default Re: Beware EVOs

    its quite possible that the higher frets on the EVOs would cause the intonation to be slightly off when fretting a note, and that the shrillness might be the resulting sharpness that you are hearing. I can only suspect that the action might also have been raised to avoid fret buzz with the higher frets, and that would result in inaccurate intonation for the open strings unless the bridge was relocated.

    Tone change on open strings simply because of the fretwork defies physical explanation to me.
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  7. #30
    coprolite mandroid's Avatar
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    Default Re: Beware EVOs

    the late Paul Hostetter did a EVO refret and fingerboard leveling while between frets on my Mix A5.

    some years back..

    they are just fine..

    .. had different ones put on my 22 A4 By Portland fretworks..
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  8. #31
    Lurkist dhergert's Avatar
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    Default Re: Beware EVOs

    Quote Originally Posted by Roccus View Post
    Yes, I think you're on to something there. I do think the Duff is exceptionally responsive and may accentuate the metallic quality of the EVOs. My repair guy is also a builder of fine guitars and uses the EVOs on them with no issues. He does agree with me regarding the tone changes on the Duff.
    I definitely have heard this kind of thing with some, but not all instruments, with stainless steel frets; although I haven't heard stainless steel frets affecting open strings... It is possible that being harder, Evo Gold frets may have more frequency resonance than nickle-sliver (but less than stainless steel).

    Coming from the world of banjos and Dobros and an aluminum double bass, I can say from a player's, a repair-person's and a builder's experience that metals do each have their own sonic characteristics. The only problem is that most of these characteristics are very difficult to define and catalog given the subjective nature of human hearing.
    -- Don

    "Music: A minor auditory irritation occasionally characterized as pleasant."
    "It is a lot more fun to make music than it is to argue about it."


    2002 Gibson F-9
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    [About how I tune my mandolins]
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  9. #32

    Default Re: Beware EVOs

    EVOs not substantially higher than the originals just wider. No intonation issues at all.

  10. #33

    Default Re: Beware EVOs

    Actually the same strings were reused.

  11. #34
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    Default Re: Beware EVOs

    Quote Originally Posted by Doug Brock View Post
    Very interesting experience. "Even when not fretted"? That especially seems odd.

    Lots of happy folks using gold EVO. I don't know for sure about other high-end luthiers, but I do know that Tom Ellis uses gold EVO frets as a premium feature on his A5 Specials, so the gold EVO can't be "disastrous" for him.

    Thanks for sharing.
    I have Gold EVO frets on all my mandolins and I love them !

  12. #35
    Registered User Tom Haywood's Avatar
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    Default Re: Beware EVOs

    I have replaced nickel-silver frets on several mandolins with EVO gold “medium” size wire, and I found that the resulting tone was different to my ears. Given that the same strings were used and that my setups are a pretty similar process, I believe that the wire material does make a difference. Experiments in my shop showed that the neck vibrations transmit strongly to the sound box through the neck block, and that minor variations to the neck mass through carving away material result in pretty big sound differences. Since there are roughly two feet of wire length attached to the fret board, it is interesting to consider how so many cubic feet of different metals might affect the neck vibrations. And, of course, to consider that some people can hear these things.

    My experience is that the EVO gives a fuller, clearer, and more resonant sound to a mandolin. I like it a lot. But I respect that a different pair of ears with a different mandolin may have a different (even opposite) experience.
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  14. #36
    Registered User EvanElk's Avatar
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    Default Re: Beware EVOs

    Did you change cases? i think that might be it
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  16. #37
    Brentrup Evangelist Larry S Sherman's Avatar
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    Default Re: Beware EVOs

    On one of my Brentrups I swapped out the original frets for Evo golds with no change in tone, just easier to play. This is a darker, warm sounding mandolin in general and it kept its' character after the fret job/setup.

    I would recommend EVO frets to anyone looking for modern playability.

    Larry

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  18. #38

    Smile Re: Beware EVOs

    It seems many EVO users feel very deeply about these frets. Maybe they should be called EMOs.

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  20. #39
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    Default Re: Beware EVOs

    I install them on all my guitars and mandolins now. I do think they are slightly brighter. They also wear strings faster than the nickel.

    I've had them on my personal guitar for almost 3 years and they show no signs of wear. The same guitar started out with nickel frets that wore out in about a year.

    For me, the slight change in tone is negligible compared to the short life span of nickel frets.

  21. #40
    Registered Muser dang's Avatar
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    Default Re: Beware EVOs

    Quote Originally Posted by Roccus View Post
    It seems many EVO users feel very deeply about these frets. Maybe they should be called EMOs.
    You start a thread with a strongly worded title, offer up a cautionary tale with little or no logical explanation - and you categorize people that have other experiences as emotional? Perhaps your presentation has something to do with the type of responses you are getting?
    I should be pickin' rather than postin'

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  23. #41

    Default Re: Beware EVOs

    Quote Originally Posted by sliebers View Post
    ...the same guitar started out with nickel frets that wore out in about a year.
    huh? you must have a "heckuva" strong grip on your left hand. Professional musicians who play guitar 200 nights a year only get their guitars refretted every 5-7 years.......if that
    Last edited by Jeff Mando; Jul-31-2019 at 9:55am.

  24. #42

    Default Re: Beware EVOs

    Quote Originally Posted by dang View Post
    You start a thread with a strongly worded title, offer up a cautionary tale with little or no logical explanation - and you categorize people that have other experiences as emotional? Perhaps your presentation has something to do with the type of responses you are getting?
    Lighten up and try to enjoy a little humor.

  25. #43
    Administrator Mandolin Cafe's Avatar
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    Default Re: Beware EVOs

    OK to discuss differences. Not OK to start playing moderator or getting personal with pot shots. That goes for several here.

  26. #44
    Registered User Doug Brock's Avatar
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    Default Re: Beware EVOs

    Quote Originally Posted by Jeff Mando View Post
    huh? you must have a "heckuva" strong grip on your left hand. Professional musicians who play guitar 200 nights a year only get their guitars refretted every 5-7 years.......if that
    The "5-7 years...if that" is obviously a very broad generalization. Lots of professional musicians get refrets quite often, at least until they resort to stainless steel or gold EVO frets. Here's an interesting example of a pro mandolin player who had two mandolins refretted every six months.

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    Doug Brock
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  28. #45
    Registered User Brian560's Avatar
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    Default Re: Beware EVOs

    I tend to think that something in the process influenced the tone, not the new frets. Something (nut bridge) might not have been seated correctly, or perhaps something jarred loose when all of the strings were removed. Others have mentioned the effects the harder material of the frets have on strings.

  29. #46
    Registered User jim simpson's Avatar
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    Default Re: Beware EVOs

    Quote Originally Posted by Doug Brock View Post
    The Music Emporium has a new honey amber Collings MF and a used (2008) honey amber Collings MF with gold EVO frets (and Waverly tuners). Somebody needs to try them both and report back.

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	Music Emporium - honey amber MF mandolins.PNG 
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    https://themusicemporium.com/mandoli...mber-gloss-top
    https://themusicemporium.com/mandoli...f_natural_2008
    I have a Collings MF5 that I had refretted exactly one year ago with gold EVO's, I also own a Collings MF that is fretted with non-gold EVO's. I noticed no change after the golds were installed. I go back and forth between both instruments and will use EVO's when the MF needs frets.
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  31. #47
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    Default Re: Beware EVOs

    Quote Originally Posted by Jeff Mando View Post
    huh? you must have a "heckuva" strong grip on your left hand. Professional musicians who play guitar 200 nights a year only get their guitars refretted every 5-7 years.......if that
    I don't think my grip is excessive. These are the nickel fret wire from Stew-Mac. Perhaps it's a bit softer than what other manufacturers use? I've had other players need refrets within a year or so as well which is why I changed to EVO.

  32. #48
    Lurkist dhergert's Avatar
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    Default Re: Beware EVOs

    I needed a re-fret very badly on my (original thin wire fretwork) 2002 F-9 within 5 years of getting it, but I was the 2nd owner. That said, when I received the instrument in 2012 it showed little if any fret ware.

    On my main-playing banjos, which have had wider nickle-silver fretwork, I usually need a re-fret every 6 to 8 years.

    That said, who wants to have to replace frets every x years when you can at least double that time, perhaps triple it?

    My wife and I are 65 now; I suspect we'll never have to worry about another fret job on our main-playing instruments.

    I have no doubt that the OP did have unacceptable tone changes after the EVO fret work on his Duff, there's no reason to question that. But my wife and I are not experiencing that with our EVO fretted instruments at all, and it seems from other comments here like the OP's circumstance is extremely rare.
    -- Don

    "Music: A minor auditory irritation occasionally characterized as pleasant."
    "It is a lot more fun to make music than it is to argue about it."


    2002 Gibson F-9
    2016 MK LFSTB
    1975 Suzuki taterbug (plus many other noisemakers)
    [About how I tune my mandolins]
    [Our recent arrival]

  33. #49
    Registered User j. condino's Avatar
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    Default Re: Beware EVOs

    I've seen the results described by the original post after a refret several times. Every one was due to piss poor fretwork rather than the choice of materials.

    I'll stick with evo for my personal mandolins....

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  35. #50
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    Default Re: Beware EVOs

    Quote Originally Posted by grandcanyonminstrel View Post
    I've seen the results described by the original post after a refret several times. Every one was due to piss poor fretwork rather than the choice of materials.

    I'll stick with evo for my personal mandolins....
    Enough said !

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