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Thread: Mandolin Recording Mic Setup

  1. #1

    Default Mandolin Recording Mic Setup

    Hello All,
    I am recording a F5 Silver Angel and not pleased with the tone I am getting. Looking for suggestions concerning detailed mic placement, mono vs. stereo and actual mics preferred.

    Currently I have the following equipment. Focusrite 18i20 interface, 2 Rode M5s, Rode NT1, and 2 Sterling ST170 Ribbon mics. Any microphone of choice to get the deep woof of the F5 would be considered.

    Your input is appreciated.

    Michael

  2. #2
    Registered User almeriastrings's Avatar
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    Default Re: Mandolin Recording Mic Setup

    Is the room treated?

    That is one of the most under-rated but important factors of all in getting a good result.

    Mic position is next. Try moving the mic(s) around while checking the results. If looking for a bit of 'deep woof' try a single ribbon off the lower F-hole about 18" away.
    Gibson F5 'Harvey' Fern, Gibson F5 'Derrington' Fern
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  4. #3

    Default Re: Mandolin Recording Mic Setup

    And make sure you don't have two mics out of phase with each other. Once you arrive at the positioning you like, think about upgrading your Rode. I used an NT 1 for a while, but my NT2 is audibly superior, and richness is one of the reasons. Still quite afordable. The upgrade path can get out of hand.
    Silverangel A
    Arches F style kit
    1913 Gibson A-1

  5. #4

    Default Re: Mandolin Recording Mic Setup

    Thanks for the input. As far are treatment, I have engineered hardwood dampened by an area rug. There are exposed corners so I may have some bass traps. I am thinking of making some clouds to eliminate the corners. I will try the single ribbon at 18", just not sure I am sold on the ribbons. I have no problem trying the NT2 if there is a good deal of difference. They only thing I see at GC is the NT2A. Is that the same or was there an older NT2 ? I know box stores are not popular, but the great thing about GC is you can try mics for 45 days and return for full refund. Nice way of auditioning mics.

    Michael

  6. #5

    Default Re: Mandolin Recording Mic Setup

    The NT2A is newer. Still not that expensive. You can get many nice mics in the $500 range, especially used. Any higher up the food chain and you'd be wanting to upgrade the pre amp. I've recorded with really nice gear, and it is stunning what $5000 can sound like.

    But I've had my NT2 and a pair of Shure SM 81s for ages. Plenty good for what I do.
    Silverangel A
    Arches F style kit
    1913 Gibson A-1

  7. #6
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    Default Re: Mandolin Recording Mic Setup

    Two more suggestions:
    1. One M5 to the upper f-hole, one M5 to the lower f-hole. Mind phasing.
    2. Ribbon to the lower f-hole (check distance for right amount of "woof", NT1 places where neck joins body to add some sparkle and detail.
    Good luck,
    Bob

  8. #7

    Default Re: Mandolin Recording Mic Setup

    My favorite mic for mandolin has been the Shure Ksm32. And yes room treatment is important, but you can build a “good enough” booth out of blankets and pillows. Keep in mind ribbons typically have a figure-8 pattern, so try sticking a pillow or something in front of it to eliminate much of the sound of the room.

    Two things to check though before trying out a bunch of mics: instrument and player. No knock on your mandolin, but some instruments just don’t record all that well, even if they sound good to the ear. And no knock on you or whoever is playing, but no mic will rescue a mediocre performance.

  9. #8

    Default Re: Mandolin Recording Mic Setup

    Thanks for the feedback. We are going to complete all the suggestions in a mic testing session soon. I will post the results.

    Michael

  10. #9

    Default Re: Mandolin Recording Mic Setup

    I am a recording engineer as my profession. Good tone from an acoustic instrument is one of the most subjective things a person can undertake to capture. The position of the player's ear and understanding of their instrument is so different than that of the traditional mic placements that there is almost no good spot for the performer and the person capturing the sound. I don't really have a specific answer that's any different or better than what you've had already. I suspect that the magic bullet will likely be time getting used to the recorded sound. Many people don't like the sound of their recorded voice in the same way they may not like the sound of their recorded acoustic mandolin/guitar/fiddle. The human auditory system is the most powerful equalizer in the universe. We can simply choose to ignore certain frequencies and focus on others. The moment an alternative perspective is presented to something "we know" it will seem false, wrong, bad, ugly, etc.

    Here are my suggestions. Make sure you are monitoring what you are recording with decent headphones. You should use closed rather than open phones. Set the mic up and move your body around while playing and adjust the tone physically until you are hearing what you like. This can be difficult because even closed phones will allow bleed from the acoustic sound. The world of recording is a collection of sweet spots. Every link in the chain has one and like any chain, the weak link will govern all.

    My other technical tip is a single mic will provide the best technical sound because it's a single point with no phase issues but we are generally binaural creatures. Two mics will feel better and seem more natural. Also, we rarely ever experience sound 100% on axis all the time with it arriving at both ears simultaneously. Two mics in an XY alignment will be more comfortable. This is how I most traditionally record acoustic instruments. Sometimes I will do the "over the shoulder" mic for the artist but I usually throw it away because it will also capture body noises, breathing and other things you don't want.

    To summarize: The most significant thing is to get used to your recorded instrument by recording it often. Don't make your first recording of your instrument be the most important one ever. Even just a little Zoom or tascam recorder while you practice will help you develop an understanding of your instrument. Adjust your playing to shape the tone you hear in the phones. Your perceived sweet spot may not be where you think it is. The internet will repeat that room treatment is the panacea. Room treatment isn't wrong, and it is important, but suboptimal recording spaces are most of the enclosed world. Good treatment is necessary for a mixing environment. There is a software package called Sonarworks that can be used with headphones to improve their accuracy. Read about it. If you want to create a treated space for recording I would suggest Owens Corning 703 panels enclosed in fabric or some Roxul rockwool enclosed in fabric. The former is rigid and easier to store and work with. The latter is not as rigid and will need some framing around it. The OC is fiberglas and has those risks. Rockwool isn't as itchy but can still give some people problems. Most of these DIY approaches will leave the casual recordist with more material than they will want to store. You might try craigslist for someone local that might be getting rid of their home recording dreams.

    I have a lot of preamps from top to bottom. My favorite is the "solidly in the middle" API 312. Their are preamps that are more pristine, more colored, warmer, whatever. A 312 will always give you a true sound.

    Lastly, a great performance makes any recording better and should always be the goal of the artist. As an engineer, my performance is the capture but it's also not to impede the performance. When you are tasked with both, focus on the instrumental performance overall.

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