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Thread: Question about Acoustic Amps and PreAmps

  1. #26

    Default Re: Question about Acoustic Amps and PreAmps

    When putting a system together, it is important to pay attention to the components used in the device. You can spend your money on something like a RedEye, which has relatively few parts of high quality, or spend the same money on something with four bands of EQ, and a digital processor or two. I vote simple quality. These days I use a SunnAudio Stage 1.
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  2. #27
    Americana in France? Daniel Nestlerode's Avatar
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    Default Re: Question about Acoustic Amps and PreAmps

    Quote Originally Posted by pops1 View Post
    I use the RedEye, still have my Orchid, but too many places I play either don't have phantom or it is not 48 volts so I don't use it much anymore. Liked it while I used it tho.
    Really? Nearly every desk I have ever seen has a button for 48v phantom power. Most people never use it. So I can imagine quite a few amateur engineers wouldn't know about it.

    I did a gig where one guy turned it off again just before I got to the instrument that uses it. He asked me if it was dangerous to leave it on.


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    Last edited by Daniel Nestlerode; Jul-14-2019 at 2:36pm.

  3. #28

    Default Re: Question about Acoustic Amps and PreAmps

    Yes, just about every mixer has phantom power, and Hi Z switches are seen a lot too. But you are correct that the people using them don't know the how and whys of their mixers. I imaging the impedance switches are labeled hi Z for space considerations.
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    Default Re: Question about Acoustic Amps and PreAmps

    'Hi Z' is the correct technical term as 'Z' is the formula for impedance in electronic calculations.
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    Registered User John Bertotti's Avatar
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    Default Re: Question about Acoustic Amps and PreAmps

    Quote Originally Posted by Br1ck View Post
    Yes, just about every mixer has phantom power, and Hi Z switches are seen a lot too. But you are correct that the people using them don't know the how and whys of their mixers. I imaging the impedance switches are labeled hi Z for space considerations.
    In defense of new people I had no idea what phantom power was when I started. Fortunately Being trained in electrical and electronics I knew what bins was but had no idea how it applied to music at the time. We all start somewhere thankfully there are helpful people out there to get newbs on track. Pardon the pun.
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    Default Re: Question about Acoustic Amps and PreAmps

    Phantom power can be scary if you try to connect unbalanced sources to balanced inputs. Don’t turn it on in such circumstances if you don’t know what you’re doing!

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    Default Re: Question about Acoustic Amps and PreAmps

    Quote Originally Posted by Daniel Nestlerode View Post
    Really? Nearly every desk I have ever seen has a button for 48v phantom power. Most people never use it. So I can imagine quite a few amateur engineers wouldn't know about it.

    I did a gig where one guy turned it off again just before I got to the instrument that uses it. He asked me if it was dangerous to leave it on.


    Daniel
    I am sure most new equipment, especially a board would have 48v phantom. I use a Carvin Stagemate, it does not have phantom. I play weekly boat cruises and set up a smal 6 channel (new) Peavey, it has 30v phantom. The Orchid needs the 48v. It will work with less, but not as well. I like the RedEye as it sounds good and is small to carry. I have sold other pre's, but keep the Orchid around, maybe will get it out again, it was a good sounding pre. A lot of folks I know and play with (old time) use older equipment and while it has phantom, not 48v.
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  8. #33
    Registered User Mandobart's Avatar
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    Default Re: Question about Acoustic Amps and PreAmps

    I've never used one of these stand alone phantom power supplies (I use a RedEye these days which runs on phantom or 9 volt battery). Would this work if your board/amp doesn't provide it?

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    Default Re: Question about Acoustic Amps and PreAmps

    I have a stand alone phantom, used it for years and works great. Usually only use it for large diaphragm condensers tho.
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    Registered User John Bertotti's Avatar
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    Default Re: Question about Acoustic Amps and PreAmps

    If you have phantom power there is always something like the cloudlifter to use phantom to make a clean pre. I think that's what it does.
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  11. #36
    coprolite mandroid's Avatar
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    Default Re: Question about Acoustic Amps and PreAmps

    FWIW, c-Dyn.s is a built in schertler pickup .. now resocoil with TRS 1/4" jack ..

    works well.. (XLR Plug may work on large bodied instruments)

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    mandolin slinger Steve Ostrander's Avatar
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    Default Re: Question about Acoustic Amps and PreAmps

    I have a K&K in my Breedlove ff and my Acoustic guitar and I go directly into my Fishman Artist with both. It sounds good. I sometimes will use the DI out on the back of the Artist into my Fishman SoloAmp PA if I need to fill more space.

    Going direct into a guitar amp made for electric guitar or DI into a mixing board is going to be a mismatch. It usually sounds shrill and quacks like a duck.
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  13. #38

    Default Re: Question about Acoustic Amps and PreAmps

    While I like my acoustic amplifier, and use it solo, I believe I'd go the powered speaker route if I were starting over. You can use it solo and it's handy in a group for either PA or monitor speaker. Get two and build a small PA around them. Use either a pre or mixed in front.
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  15. #39
    Registered User John Bertotti's Avatar
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    Default Re: Question about Acoustic Amps and PreAmps

    Quote Originally Posted by Br1ck View Post
    While I like my acoustic amplifier, and use it solo, I believe I'd go the powered speaker route if I were starting over. You can use it solo and it's handy in a group for either PA or monitor speaker. Get two and build a small PA around them. Use either a pre or mixed in front.
    I don't play out but the versatility of the Small powered PA is exactly why I went with them and sadly I wanted some less, much less expensive ones but these were in store also and I had to try them. You know how they say only try instruments within your budget, the same holds true for PA speakers. And for anyone new to mixers PAs and such is be aware of the hidden cost, bit me rather hard, cables! Didn't even consider it until I got home and realized I didn't have enough anymore! Oddly I use them for everything music from my acoustics to playing back form my software through them to hear how it sounds to just using them as very loud boom boxes when I am working outside.
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  16. #40

    Default Re: Question about Acoustic Amps and PreAmps

    I use an ATM350 mic along with a K&K mini for reinforcing my Bourgeois Country Boy and it sounds great, going in to a mic pre (stand alone or mixing board pre) and ending up at a Bose L1 system...very natural, very punchy and above all, not plasticky. You can clip this mic into the soundhole ala Sean Watkins, Chris Eldridge and others. Use your pre to EQ to taste...I really like this combo.

    The ATM350 alone is pretty fantastic for mandolin, and as you all probably know, was what Chris Thile used for a long while (well, the older ATM35).

    The Grace Felix pre has some great capabilities as well...
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    Registered User Mandobart's Avatar
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    Default Re: Question about Acoustic Amps and PreAmps

    Quote Originally Posted by Steve Ostrander View Post
    Going direct into a guitar amp made for electric guitar or DI into a mixing board is going to be a mismatch. It usually sounds shrill and quacks like a duck.
    Again, its the unmatched output impedance of the piezo (1 to 10 million ohms) with the input impedance of the amp or PA (a few thousand ohms). This is basic signal path stuff that applies to radio, radar, video, etc. I learned it 40 years ago in the USN as an electronic tech. This was discovered when radio was developed. Its not a new phenomenon.

    Despite all the other secondary features touted by everyone selling preamps, it is this basic impedance matching (not signal boost, not multi-band EQ, not looks or low weight, not rare materials) that determines how good your signal chain will ultimately sound.

  18. #42
    Registered User John Bertotti's Avatar
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    Default Re: Question about Acoustic Amps and PreAmps

    Quote Originally Posted by Mandobart View Post
    Again, its the unmatched output impedance of the piezo (1 to 10 million ohms) with the input impedance of the amp or PA (a few thousand ohms). This is basic signal path stuff that applies to radio, radar, video, etc. I learned it 40 years ago in the USN as an electronic tech. This was discovered when radio was developed. Its not a new phenomenon.

    Despite all the other secondary features touted by everyone selling preamps, it is this basic impedance matching (not signal boost, not multi-band EQ, not looks or low weight, not rare materials) that determines how good your signal chain will ultimately sound.
    I downloaded the NEETs manuals when they made them available. Solid beginning to electrical and electronics. A lot better than the afunp class. This is a screw driver hahahahaha. But yes impedance matching makes a difference how much depends on where you are starting from and what you want to hear. Like guitars and true bypass, I’m back to a buffer because it
    Just works better at retaining the signal.
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  19. #43

    Default Re: Question about Acoustic Amps and PreAmps

    Just like there are pretty decent mandolins made for modest budgets, like the Eastman 300 series, you can get decent powered speakers these days that won't cost an arm and a leg. I use some very credible Behringer 8" speakers as floor monitors. Pretty good sound for the buck. Of course, put them next to some QSC K series and you'll want those.
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  20. #44
    Registered User John Bertotti's Avatar
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    Default Re: Question about Acoustic Amps and PreAmps

    Quote Originally Posted by Br1ck View Post
    Just like there are pretty decent mandolins made for modest budgets, like the Eastman 300 series, you can get decent powered speakers these days that won't cost an arm and a leg. I use some very credible Behringer 8" speakers as floor monitors. Pretty good sound for the buck. Of course, put them next to some QSC K series and you'll want those.
    Yep a side by side is how I got bit! Love my QSC.
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  21. #45

    Default Re: Question about Acoustic Amps and PreAmps

    We use a large back room of a restaurant/bar for an open mic. The venue also runs karaoke twice a week. The mains are hung from the ceiling. We were so tired of the thirty year old tired Peaveys, we decided to replace them, since the venue owner pays the ASCAP fees and the host every week, we collectively foot the bill for QSC 15" passive speakers. Extremely high quality and money well spent. QSC has it going on.
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  23. #46
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    Default Re: Question about Acoustic Amps and PreAmps

    I used AER Compact 60 and Acoustic Image Amps for years. Three years ago my local dealer offered me a QSC K8 for testing. I really loved the clean sound they gave. Now I use the K8.2 which offers (besides many more wonderful features) a optional Hi Z on Input 2, for those of us who want to use it with passive pickup.
    For live performance we (acoustic trio) use two QSC 10.2 speakers and three QSC K8.2 for monitor - best system I had so far.

  24. #47
    coprolite mandroid's Avatar
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    Smile Re: powered pa speaker

    & Y'ha even lets you take the amp/preamp-mixer out, and place it next to you..
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    Default Re: Question about Acoustic Amps and PreAmps

    Exactly: When using the house P.A. or at festivals I bring the QSC K8.2 for personal monitor, fed by my preamp line out.

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