Carbon Fiber Mandolin

[V70416]

I would like to hear some discussion on cf and wood hybrid instruments.
A cf instrument with organic/wooden fretboards,bridges,or bracing seems to me like defeating the main reason for a cf instrument.

I have a CA guitar that is a joy to play,listen to,and just live with. There is not one piece of wood used in its construction.

Count me in for being very interested in a good cf mandolin at that price!

I also agree with the sentiment of no chunky necks. But I feel the same about wooden instruments in that regard. Give me more Loar-ish neck dimensions,please.

[Gunnar]

You can build a carbon mandolin at that price? Sounds promising if you can get as good a sound as you can with CF guitars.

[Marty Jacobson]

I would like to hear some discussion on cf and wood hybrid instruments.
A cf instrument with organic/wooden fretboards,bridges,or bracing seems to me like defeating the main reason for a cf instrument.

You're right - unless the wood components are part of the lay-up, in which case they are encapsulated in resin just like the carbon fiber itself. The wood is not exposed to the elements, and it's not really "wood" anymore anyway since all the interstitial air is replaced with resin. This is how Emerald Guitar company and others do it:

[Christine Robins]

I'd be interested in an A-style with pickup. But I have physical problems that make the weight of the instrument critical. Even with a strap. (That's why I'll be selling my Ovation mando--it weighs a ton.)

I was recently checking out, online, a new affordable CF fiddle. I stopped looking when I discovered that the weight was significantly more than a regular wooden instrument.

Are CF instruments intrinsically heavier than wooden ones?

[Marty Jacobson]

Are CF instruments intrinsically heavier than wooden ones?

No, if properly designed, they have the potential to be lighter. My prototype was about 500g lighter than my normal mandolins, because it has a hollow neck, and no blocks or linings inside. However, tailpiece, headstock, tuning machines, bridge, and fretboard are all very similar to a usual wood instrument, so it's not as much savings as you might hope.

I have found that the mass of the top and the back plates is important to getting the tone of the mandolin right. Even with an appropriately stiff plate, if it's not massive enough, it sounds like a banjo. So the main parts, other than the neck, are probably going to have to be pretty nearly the same weight as a wood mandolin for it to sound good.

[dhergert]

Personally, if I were to buy a CF mandolin, I'd like it to be all CF, showing the CF "grain" and all, with a CF fingerboard, CF briidge and saddle, CF Peghead overlay (if present), CF finger-rest/pickguard, CF armrest, etc. Pretty much no wood. Why go half way?

And I'd like it to be F-style, or close enough to fit F-style accessories (ToneGard in particular), shaped like maybe a near Giacomel style, something with close enough to a real scroll to hook my strap through it and to benefit from the balance of an F-style.

I know, it's a lot to ask, but there it is.

[Marty Jacobson]

Personally, if I were to buy a CF mandolin, I'd like it to be all CF, showing the CF "grain" and all, with a CF fingerboard, CF briidge and saddle, CF Peghead overlay (if present), CF finger-rest/pickguard, CF armrest, etc. Pretty much no wood. Why go half way?

CFRP is over double the density of hardwoods. A solid CF bridge, armrest, etc., in addition to being quite expensive, would be very heavy, indeed. So there would need to be designs made and tested to make hollow versions. That's expensive, a couple years of someone's life at least. And you may not like the look of them since they're limited by the material in some respects. So I'd recommend going with a polymer like delrin, zytel, fiber-filled nylon, flax fiber PLA, or similar for the fittings to keep R&D costs down and maintain a traditional look.

[Greg P. Stone]

If it has good bass and tone for $1000 or less I'd buy one.

[lukmanohnz]

It's the first one I ever made, so definitely not done yet. Sounds better with the bracing I've added to it. A couple more rounds of R&D, and some wood layers on the top to help it look more "woody", and I think it'll check off a lot of boxes.

Well I guess tastes vary a lot - I think that mandolin of yours is stunning. I would love to have such a beautiful piece of functional art as part of my collection. Maybe someday....

[yankees1]

I would be interested as a mandolin for my grand daughters to begin playing on ! For me, I like the sight, smell and feel of a wood one !

[Bernie Daniel]

There are multiple carbon fibre guitars on the market. Along with Emerald Guitars AVA Instruments, Rainsong Guitars, and CA guitars come to mind. I think AVA are also building bowl back mandolins in cf.

(I own a Rainsong OM-1000 and a Mix F5 both of which I have found indispensable for outdoor gigs in weather.)

Don't leave a cf instrument in a hot car. The glue will soften just like with a wood instrument.

And interestingly, cf instruments conduct electricity. Be careful around non-grounded equipment!

Daniel

As to the OP's question I think a nice sounding and nice looking carbon fiber mandolin (I assume it would not have play ability issues) for $1K would be something I would try.

I keep remembering the CF cello that was dredged up from a lake bottom near New Orleans 2 - 3 years after the Katrina disaster -- it was fixed back up to play.

I am kind of surprised to hear about both of those liabilities mentioned though?

1) I would think the glue for carbon fiber mandolins would be some kind of marine epoxy and I don't imagine that letting go a 150 F or so? And of course water would not be an issue either.

2) CF conducts electricity but it is not a danger to you i.e., via shock is it? CF compared to metals is actually considered a very poor conductor and the main issues with electricity is it could support galvanic reactions between metal parts in contact with each other on the instrument?

But I could be wrong I guess.........

PS and I agree with post #34 all CF and metal please -- no wooden parts would be best.

[Rob Ross]

My friend is ecstatic about her carbon fiber fiddle. She plays it at inside jams and hot, muggy outdoor festivals and it sounds great both places. I have a carbon fiber bow and there is almost no noticeable difference between it and a wood bow. It is slightly denser than my main wooden bow, but I have several wooden bows and the difference between some of those bows is even greater. The only thing noticeable about the CF fiddle is the color, it is almost black. I've played it and it plays well.

Were there a CF mandolin without too high a price, I know a few folks that would be interested for outdoor gigs, especially the rainy and cold ones folks have to put up with here in Minnesota.

[Marty Jacobson]

West System epoxy, if not post cured, creeps at about 115 degrees F. To get performance above that with pretty much any modern epoxy or polyester resin, you have to add energy (heat) during the curing process. This is true with the adhesives as well as the epoxies used in the initial production of the parts.

I also like CF violin bows. I had a pretty decent, though not terribly expensive bow which I used since I got my first full-size violin gifted to me by a friend of my grandparents when I was 14 or so. I recently replaced it with a $50 bog standard CF bow, and it's actually a better bow.

[Mandobar]

I'd be interested in an A-style with pickup. But I have physical problems that make the weight of the instrument critical. Even with a strap. (That's why I'll be selling my Ovation mando--it weighs a ton.)

I was recently checking out, online, a new affordable CF fiddle. I stopped looking when I discovered that the weight was significantly more than a regular wooden instrument.
Are CF instruments intrinsically heavier than wooden ones?

I have the Glasser 4 and 5 string fiddles with a pickup. The 4 string without the pickup is quite light. Glasser does a great job, even over those builders’ instruments that are thousands more. While not as light as my custom wood fiddles, but not shedloads heavier.

[hammarlund]

Digging up an old post, I know, but I gotta ask: What ever happened to this project? I love my "Big Blue" CA carbon 12-string and would be very amenable to a CF mando, even if it wasn't blue

$1000 seems a bit of a stretch, there's a lot of hand finishing and limited volume, though of course I'd be happy if you made it there. As a comparison, Z Mandolins is selling their CF mandos for $1600 w/ Gator case (actually $2600, but they give a $100 donation so they could sell at $1600 if they wanted to.)