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Thread: Gibson threatening the mandolin and guitar luthier community

  1. #301
    but that's just me Bertram Henze's Avatar
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    Default Re: Gibson threatening the mandolin and guitar luthier community

    Quote Originally Posted by JL277z View Post
    "Instead of building quality guitars at a reasonable price, we're just gonna bully them right out of business..."
    I just remembered one of of the coolest guitar players I know, Steve Hackett, and watched one of his videos more closely to find out if that is really a golden Les Paul he is playing. Well, it isn't. In the first minute of this video he explains what he is playing and why.



    This to show how easy business would be by just looking ahead and giving musicians what they need, instead of looking back.
    the world is better off without bad ideas, good ideas are better off without the world

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  3. #302
    Registered User Douglas McMullin's Avatar
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    Default Re: Gibson threatening the mandolin and guitar luthier community

    Quote Originally Posted by slimt View Post
    So why hasnt Gibson sued guild over the SG style? Even the ES style guitars.
    They made some threats to local builder over his SG like shapes (and V) last year. Just a cease and desist letter and not a suit. Best I can tell he is still making them (looking at his site), though maybe there were small tweaks.

    https://bangordailynews.com/2018/02/...f-his-guitars/

    https://www.segerguitars.com/yg-gallery

    edit: Looks like he stopped building a V

  4. #303
    Registered User grassrootphilosopher's Avatar
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    Default Re: Gibson threatening the mandolin and guitar luthier community

    I CAN´T RESIST!

    The master of blah blah, Marc Agnesi... (if you watch his videos as an employer of Norman´s Rare Guitars).

    Though it might seem like venting: I don´t think that people like him ever know what shame is.

    The marketing "gag" of the Angesi cry out video turned sour pretty soon. That´s why Gibson obviously pulled it and faces the backlash of the public.

    Why was virtually everything in the video publicity gone wrong?

    - Marc Agnesi didn´t have the historical side of whatever he said right. "Only Gibson IS Good Enough", the 40ies slogan is definately quoted out of context. The effort to ride on a warm emotional wave of nostalgia does not apply to buyers of the guitars that the video was obviously focusing on.

    - Marc Agnesi has absolutely no knowledge of copyright laws. If this video was hashed out with a minimum of legal consultation one can only assume that it is a (lame) effort to bully competitors into shying away. The obviously entirely stupid opinion that one may not use a "counterfeit product" and perform with it is so ludicrous that I immediately thought of a party at the Gibson headquarters where a lot of booze and illegal drugs produced the idea to make a video that was supposed to threaten and bully.

    NOW FOR THE BEST PART:

    MARC AGNESI! SWALLOW YOUR OWN MEDICINE!

    The following videos ought to cause Marc Agnesi to tell his employer (Gibson) that they ought to sue him (Marc Agnesi). Why? Because Marc Agnesi openly claims ownership of an Ibanez Flying V "lawsuit" guitar (and loves it). Also he shows off "counterfeit product" in videos by his former employer Norman´s Rare Guitars. How crazy is that.







    Now, I don´t know Marc Agnesi but I can say the following.

    When you elaborate about "counterfeit product" guitars and you praise them and then - after a change of employer - you suddenly go the oposite direction without the slightest justification you are just acting in very (!) bad style. In this case it shows a turncoat who is extremely ill mannered.

    Does the public response have an impact? I do think so. A s h i t s t o r m like this one that causes the public to vent is never good, even when you think that even bad publicity is publicity. If this causes builders and sellers to bond and countersue Gibson that they are not in breach of copyright laws, well that could cause major problems for Gibson, what do you think?
    Olaf

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  6. #304
    but that's just me Bertram Henze's Avatar
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    Default Re: Gibson threatening the mandolin and guitar luthier community

    Quote Originally Posted by grassrootphilosopher View Post
    In this case it shows a turncoat who is extremely ill mannered.
    That's how it is with turncoats - if you destroy his leather jacket, that video suggests he'll just take the next one off that rack in the back

    My diagnosis: an indestructable narcissist personality who's best left alone, deprived of the attention he feeds on.
    Are there any videos where he actually plays any of these guitars?
    the world is better off without bad ideas, good ideas are better off without the world

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    Default Re: Gibson threatening the mandolin and guitar luthier community

    Long ago I deemed Marc Agnesi irrelevant.

    Gibson has proved to me, once again, that making excellent products at fair prices is not a priority in the corporate philosophy.
    And though I have owned many Gibson instruments, much like Agnesi, Gibson is now irrelevant.

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    Default Re: Gibson threatening the mandolin and guitar luthier community

    Are there any pedals that do that sustainer thing?
    Never mind.
    The Digitech Freq-out! Oh, Yeah!
    Last edited by Jim Hilburn; Jun-25-2019 at 12:17pm.

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    Registered User almeriastrings's Avatar
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    Default Re: Gibson threatening the mandolin and guitar luthier community

    Wow.. the more I see of this guy, the less I like him...
    Gibson F5 'Harvey' Fern, Gibson F5 'Derrington' Fern
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  13. #308
    Howling at the moon Wolfboy's Avatar
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    Default Re: Gibson threatening the mandolin and guitar luthier community

    Quote Originally Posted by almeriastrings View Post
    Wow.. the more I see of this guy, the less I like him...
    He certainly did a complete 180 between praising Ibanez and Dean in his Norman’s Rare Guitars videos and trashing everyone who isn’t Gibson now, didn’t he? Doesn’t do much for whatever credibility he had…

    (And I see he was doing the leather-jacket-with lots-of-metal-parts thing then too, which means he didn’t give a damn that he was gouging up guitars back then either. Jesus, Mark…what message do you think you’re sending doing that? I wouldn’t let you near one of my instruments if you were wearing that thing.)

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  15. #309
    Registered User slimt's Avatar
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    Default Re: Gibson threatening the mandolin and guitar luthier community

    Quote Originally Posted by almeriastrings View Post
    Wow.. the more I see of this guy, the less I like him...
    Heehee

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    Registered User grassrootphilosopher's Avatar
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    Default Re: Gibson threatening the mandolin and guitar luthier community

    Let me ad one thing. I have learned a lot from Gibson‘s true ambassadors on this forum. Foremost they are Big Joe, Charlie Derrington and Dave Harvey.

    Big Joe was allways the consumate gentleman, even when the Gibson brand was heavily criticized. These are the people that matter, whatever the corporate headquarters may proclaim.

    Read about the women that built the legendary banner Gibson guitars. And yes, I like my Southerner Jumbo a lot.

    Would I buy the same guitar if it had been built today? Probably not. That would have been sad, yes, very sad indeed.

    Let‘s make sure in our lives that only relevant people matter and not the Agnesis and (insert name).

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  18. #311
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    Default Re: Gibson threatening the mandolin and guitar luthier community

    I remember the gentleman mentioned above saying "WE are the ones who invented the F5" to which I had to point out that everyone who had anything to do with inventing the F5 was dead.

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  20. #312

    Default Re: Gibson threatening the mandolin and guitar luthier community

    Quote Originally Posted by grassrootphilosopher View Post
    Let me ad one thing. I have learned a lot from Gibson‘s true ambassadors on this forum. Foremost they are Big Joe, Charlie Derrington and Dave Harvey.

    Big Joe was allways the consumate gentleman, even when the Gibson brand was heavily criticized. These are the people that matter, whatever the corporate headquarters may proclaim.
    Great points Olaf and well worth mentioning.
    "I play BG so that's what I can talk intelligently about." A line I loved and pirated from Mandoplumb

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  22. #313
    Registered User NotMelloCello's Avatar
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    Default Re: Gibson threatening the mandolin and guitar luthier community

    I'm late to the party here on this forum, but I can tell you that the internet's hair is on fire over that Agnesi vid and the Dean lawsuit. I haven't seen anyone defend Gibson's position with any fervor, either. It's very sad, I think. Maybe Gibson should have just asked for a single dollar for every instrument produced that even smelled like a Gibson, and they would have been money ahead instead of this PR stunt gone horribly wrong.

    I have noted that the "book" peghead profile with 3 on a side tuners was used by Stradivarius on his guitars built in 1609. That's some serious precedent, if you ask me. As for 6 on a side tuners, Fender and Martin should sue over the Firebird design.

    Anyway - it's ugly, and it's madness - and I think we all want the music industry to simply concentrate on making an honest buck and getting along. There are plenty of other things for the public to spend their money on these days....
    The difference between death and taxes is that death does not grow worse every time Congress convenes. - Will Rogers

  23. #314

    Default Re: Gibson threatening the mandolin and guitar luthier community

    Gibson:
    Only our arrogance is good enough...

  24. #315
    Howling at the moon Wolfboy's Avatar
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    Default Re: Gibson threatening the mandolin and guitar luthier community

    Quote Originally Posted by grassrootphilosopher View Post
    Let me ad one thing. I have learned a lot from Gibson‘s true ambassadors on this forum. Foremost they are Big Joe, Charlie Derrington and Dave Harvey.

    Big Joe was allways the consumate gentleman, even when the Gibson brand was heavily criticized. These are the people that matter, whatever the corporate headquarters may proclaim.
    Agreed. Dave's a friend of mine and passionate about building great mandolins. (Killer musician too!) I hope he's not directly catching any blowback from the current sh*tstorm. I feel bad for him if he is. I haven't met Big Joe in person but I feel like I know him through his contributions to this forum, and I agree that he's always been the consummate gentleman and hugely knowledgeable. Never got to meet Charlie Derrington, sadly, and his passing was a huge loss to the acoustic music world.

    None of these gentlemen are to blame in any way for Gibson's corporate actions. However, that doesn't alter the fact that Gibson as a company has done a lot of astoundingly stupid stuff to alienate their customer base, their dealers and the whole music industry in recent years, of which the Agnesi video and the Dean lawsuit are only the latest in a long series. I'd personally be uncomfortable representing a company that acts the way Gibson does, but again, I don't hold it against any of these folks in any way.

    Well, if the $500M of debt and unsuccessful lawsuits do finally sink Gibson, I imagine there are plenty of mandolin builders who'd love to have Dave's experience and expertise on their team. Or he could start Harvey Mandolins, Inc. and probably do just great. (Worked for Bruce Weber...)

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    Registered User Hendrik Ahrend's Avatar
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    Default Re: Gibson threatening the mandolin and guitar luthier community

    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Hilburn View Post
    I remember the gentleman mentioned above saying "WE are the ones who invented the F5" to which I had to point out that everyone who had anything to do with inventing the F5 was dead.
    Hence, Gibson shouldn't be talking about someone, who invented something and should get payed for his - now, what is it after all? - idea, talent and labour. It's entirely about proprietary rights of use and exploitation. The huge gap - the apparent loss of any connection - between this cold hard fact the and the legitimate rights of the inventor (or the romantic image of the artist/genius/craftsman for that matter) seems so annoying to most of us.
    Last edited by Hendrik Ahrend; Jun-26-2019 at 3:08am.

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    Default Re: Gibson threatening the mandolin and guitar luthier community

    Quote Originally Posted by Bertram Henze View Post
    Are there any videos where he actually plays any of these guitars?
    Yeah there is plenty. Just look. He's a good guitarist.

  28. #318
    but that's just me Bertram Henze's Avatar
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    Default Re: Gibson threatening the mandolin and guitar luthier community

    Quote Originally Posted by Hendrik Ahrend View Post
    The huge gap - the apparent loss of any connection - between this cold hard fact the and the legitimate rights of the inventor (or the romantic image of the artist/genius/craftsman for that matter) seems so annoying to most of us.
    Yes, that is what makes the difference. Modest behavior towards a real genius comes naturally, out of respect.
    But we don't respect bullies, we avoid them, no matter if they are wearing suits or leather jackets.
    the world is better off without bad ideas, good ideas are better off without the world

  29. #319
    but that's just me Bertram Henze's Avatar
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    Default Re: Gibson threatening the mandolin and guitar luthier community

    Quote Originally Posted by BoxCarJoe View Post
    Yeah there is plenty. Just look. He's a good guitarist.
    OK, I found some footage of him playing. Passable, not exactly the stuff for a superstar career, but good enough for the occasion.
    And while playing, he has that creepy Christopher-Lambert stare all the time...
    the world is better off without bad ideas, good ideas are better off without the world

  30. #320
    Registered User William Smith's Avatar
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    Default Re: Gibson threatening the mandolin and guitar luthier community

    We live in a world where most everyone is out for themselves, the little business's suffer, the Mom and Pop stores are mostly all gone taken over by the big chains! They just cant compete and we're all to blame for shopping at these places and when you have to stretch a buck what do you do! That goes for instruments as well-unless someone is die hard they will not spend up to 20G+ on a brand new Gibson MM when there are so many other options out there. I sure hope nothing happens to the Gibson mandolin division under David Harvey and crew as I believe under him Gibson is making the best mandolins since the golden age of Gibson. The ones I've played are great and I feel lucky to have one of the few Harvey signed awesome sounding F-10's. They are still selling brand new F-5's and such! David is a truly great person and I consider him a friend, he cares about quality! I've often thought this for years that Gibson should produce a great new solid wood bare boned carved build cheap enough to attract potential buyers so they don't go for the many upon many pac-rim mandolins! I'm really not into new instruments I save and buy strictly old Gibson mandolins-old Gibson and Martin acoustic guitars "Fender telecasters- not into Gibson electrics- not my sound I dig anyway" because I love history, well made instruments with that broke in sound and feel! I'll continue to buy and play old vintage instruments and the occasional newer Gibson mandolin if I like it. The way corporate Gibson is going about things shouldn't surprise anyone as we live in a big corporate world. And look at all the countless Gibson inspired independent and foreign factory mandolins out there same with about every Martin guitar that has been copied by the endless builders independent and foreign factories. I think this has been going on so long now that its a losing battle with Gibson and even Martin to seriously pursue! But I'm not going to stop playing and enjoying all my different vintage Gibson mandolins, "even a few independent F-5's I have-I guess they are copies" This all will blow over and it'll be business as usual as the bottom line is $$$$$$$$$$$! Bad publicity is still publicity?

  31. #321
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    Default Re: Gibson threatening the mandolin and guitar luthier community

    Anyone want to go down the fiddle rabbit hole...... Wonder what Andrea A. and Antonio S. would have to say?

  32. #322
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    Default Re: Gibson threatening the mandolin and guitar luthier community

    The banjo community has not been discussing these events. They have moved on.

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  34. #323
    Registered User Pete Summers's Avatar
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    Default Re: Gibson threatening the mandolin and guitar luthier community

    Quote Originally Posted by NotMelloCello View Post

    I have noted that the "book" peghead profile with 3 on a side tuners was used by Stradivarius on his guitars built in 1609. That's some serious precedent, if you ask me. As for 6 on a side tuners, Fender and Martin should sue over the Firebird design.
    I think you mean 1709 -- Stradivari was born in the 1640's. I did not know he made guitars at all so I've learned something on this thread. Now I'm wondering if he made mandolins too? Can't find any info on that, but I did find that he made harps as well as fiddles and guitars. I wonder if any of his guitars are extant?

  35. #324
    Unfamous String Buster Beanzy's Avatar
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    Default Re: Gibson threatening the mandolin and guitar luthier community

    Quote Originally Posted by Pete Summers View Post
    I think you mean 1709 -- Stradivari was born in the 1640's. I did not know he made guitars at all so I've learned something on this thread. Now I'm wondering if he made mandolins too? Can't find any info on that, but I did find that he made harps as well as fiddles and guitars. I wonder if any of his guitars are extant?
    Here you go..

    Click image for larger version. 

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    Eoin



    "Forget that anyone is listening to you and always listen to yourself" - Fryderyk Chopin

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    Default Re: Gibson threatening the mandolin and guitar luthier community

    Click image for larger version. 

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    Check out that mustache bridge
    " Practice every time you get a chance." - Bill Monroe

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