Page 23 of 32 FirstFirst ... 192021222324252627 ... LastLast
Results 551 to 575 of 800

Thread: Gibson threatening the mandolin and guitar luthier community

  1. #551

    Default Re: Gibson threatening the mandolin and guitar luthier community

    Oooh, I really want to spend some quality time in Iowa City!
    Quality time in Iowa City includes going down to the Mill every second and fourth Wednesday of the month to hear Bob Black (yes that Bob Black) and some of his friends play the real genuine bluegrass music. The cover charge is really minimal.

    Not to mention Greg Brown and a few others who occasionally get scheduled there for concerts in a real up close setting. Greg Brown grew up around here.

    Also the first weekend in June they have a community arts festival where they close the downtown streets and have art, food and free concerts with people like Sam Bush, Aiofe O Donovan, Tim O' Brien, Darrell Scott and the like as headliners. There is a similar level jazz festival once a year.

    So it is not all bad.

  2. The Following 7 Users Say Thank You to CarlM For This Useful Post:


  3. #552
    Howling at the moon Wolfboy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    Black Mountain, NC
    Posts
    380

    Default Re: Gibson threatening the mandolin and guitar luthier community

    Interesting post here from a trademark lawyer: https://www.ultimate-guitar.com/arti...k_claims-93487

    Excerpt:

    Armadillo Distribution Enterprises – the entity that owns Dean Guitars and Luna Guitars – has submitted its opening salvo in response to Gibson’s trademark infringement lawsuit. On July 8th, Armadillo filed a 49 page Answer and Counterclaims. It also filed a separate Motion to Dismiss the allegations of “counterfeiting” by Gibson. Both of these legal filings by Armadillo seek to document a series of factual and legal errors that were conveniently left out of Gibson’s claims.

    The highlights of Armadillo’s myriad responses are the following:

    - It is legally impossible for Dean’s V and Explorer guitars to be “counterfeits”
    - Armadillo has used the V and Z (Explorer) guitar shapes since at least 1976 and that Gibson “sat on its purported rights and failed to object”
    - Gibson’s alleged trademarks and trademark rights are “invalid” because they are generic and/or incapable of serving as source identifiers for guitars
    - Armadillo’s use of the term “Modern” to describe its guitars is Fair Use
    - Gibson has interfered with Armadillo’s business by unlawfully threatening distributors

    Of course, the Answer and Counterclaims filed by Armadillo are written in a way that is heavily slanted in its favor. This response, however, does introduce new facts and history that was absent from Gibson’s own lawsuit filings. As a trademark lawyer and a guitar player, this case remains absolutely fascinating to me and I wanted to provide a quick summary and high-level legal analysis of the parties’ positions as of today.

    Gibson’s Counterfeiting Claims

    Gibson’s lawsuit alleges that Armadillo (through Dean and Luna) used “counterfeit versions” of Gibson’s Flying V, Explorer, SG, and Dove Wing Headstock designs on both electric and acoustic guitars. Gibson is not required to provide substantial evidence in its original filings, but Armadillo’s Answer and Motion to Dismiss absolutely drops the hammer on Gibson’s counterfeiting claims.

    Under U.S. law, a counterfeit is a “spurious mark which is identical with, or substantially indistinguishable from, a registered mark.” Essentially, a counterfeit “is something that purports to be something that it is not.” Gibson’s assertion that Dean and Luna guitars are counterfeits necessarily suggests to the court that these guitars are being passed off as genuine Gibson guitars and not just mere imitations or guitars with similar designs.

    Armadillo’s lawyers pounced on this claim for obvious reasons. Because Gibson previously tried this same argument just a few years ago and it failed spectacularly. On similar claims for counterfeiting by Gibson in 2016, a district court in California held the following:

    "[t]o the extent that Gibson allegedly relies on its body shape and headstock shape as a source identifier, no rational jury could find that a particular body shape or headstock stamped with a different guitar brand is a counterfeit of a Gibson trademark."

    Ouch. These prior counterfeiting claims were dismissed for good reason. The bar for proving a counterfeit is exceptionally high. The law governing counterfeits addresses a very narrow type of product, in that the majority of appropriately filed “counterfeit” cases “involve obviously identical marks.” In short, Armadillo’s lawyers assert (and I agree) that no reasonable guitar purchaser is going to think they are buying a genuine Gibson guitar when they walk out of the store with a Dean or Luna guitar. The headstocks clearly use DEAN or LUNA marks and logos. There is nothing on the label that would suggest that these are Gibson-branded products. Armadillo’s Motion to Dismiss included pages of side-by-side graphics demonstrating the different headstocks and descriptions that would negate any claims of “counterfeiting.”

    I anticipate that the Court will grant Armadillo’s Motion to Dismiss the counterfeiting claims.

    Generic and/or Invalid Trademarks

    The core of Armadillo’s Answer is that four of Gibson’s U.S. trademark registrations should be cancelled on grounds that the body designs are generic and/or invalid. I have previously written an analysis on this issue anticipating these very defenses. Legally speaking, by saying the body designs are “generic,” Armadillo is claiming that the Flying V, Explorer (Z), SG, and semi-hollow body styles are so commonly used in the industry by others that it no longer signifies one specific manufacturer to guitar players in the industry. In layman’s terms, Armadillo claims that Gibson’s allegedly distinctive body shapes are more like the use of the term ASPIRIN in the pharmaceutical industry. These shapes are too common to be associated with just one brand. They are generic. Generic marks are never enforceable as trademarks. Armadillo’s Answer provided pages and pages of examples of these substantial third-party uses.

    Now, before I continue, I want to make one thing very clear: there is a difference between a trademark and a “trademark registration.” Armadillo’s legal filings are seeking to cancel Gibson’s trademark registrations, which are effectively certificates issued by the USPTO recognizing that Gibson has claimed and demonstrated rights to certain trademarks. If Gibson’s trademark registrations are cancelled that does not mean that it loses the underlying trademarks. Gibson would still theoretically own and have legally enforceable rights to these trademarks, even without a registration, unless they are declared “generic.” (The registrations provide additional legal benefits and presumptions when you enforce trademarks in a legal proceeding.)

    Nevertheless, I tend to side with Armadillo on this issue too. It is possible that in the 1950s, Gibson’s Flying V and Explorer models were so distinctive and unique that any respectable guitar player inherently associated these models with the Gibson brand. But that is no longer the case. Dean Guitars claims to have used these models since the 1970s. I know other brands have been using the V and semi-hollow body shapes for many years as well. Gibson only recently began seeking to enforce these as “trademarks.” Gibson Brands, Inc. did not even file for registrations until the 1990s. Gibson’s failure to enforce its purported trademark rights until now dovetails with the claims of genericness. These are known as the legal doctrines of “laches” and “acquiescence” – both of which are explicitly asserted as defenses by Armadillo. These are the fancy lawyer words for “tough luck; you waited too long.”

    Overall, I think Armadillo has most of the facts and law on its side. This case is far from over though. Most trademark cases will involve substantial survey and customer impression evidence. There will be expert testimony. It is a long, expensive process unless the parties settle. Plus, the “Gibson” brand is likely more famous than the Dean and Luna brands to the average person. It is unlikely that the fact finder(s) will be familiar with the other various guitar brands in the industry, so Gibson’s name brand might sway the uninitiated to some degree.

    My personal opinion though? As a trademark lawyer and also as someone who has been playing guitar for over 20 years? I think that all of these body shapes are generic and no longer function as trademarks. I think Gibson is overstepping and it will backfire.

  4. The Following 13 Users Say Thank You to Wolfboy For This Useful Post:

    + Show/Hide list of the thanked


  5. #553

    Default Re: Gibson threatening the mandolin and guitar luthier community

    Gibson could probably do more with a campaign demonstrating how they were innovative and brought musicians so many designs that are ubiquitous today. Something like showing all the copies of their designs and then a statement that says "Gibson says you're welcome for a century of innovation still being copied today"... or "Imitation is the most sincere flattery and we're blushing"... or "what would you have done without Gibson for the last century?". Would any of this have gotten them a dime in court? Not one cent. It would remind the buying public of the history of the company and how influential they have been. On the other hand, no one ever bought groceries with "exposure".

  6. #554
    Administrator Mandolin Cafe's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 1998
    Posts
    1,767
    Blog Entries
    8

    Default Re: Gibson threatening the mandolin and guitar luthier community

    Several new news articles appearing today. Several quotes certainly attention getting.

    Gibson shifts from confrontation to collaboration with Gibson Authorized Partnership Program

    “Tone and timing of that video, clearly, lessons to be learned, but guess what: we’re taking down hundreds of websites, thousands of guitars we’re intercepting that are knockoffs, so it served a purpose,” James ‘JC’ Curleigh, president and CEO of Gibson, said.

    In short, Gibson is planning to initially collaborate with 3-4 boutique guitar builders by entering into agreements where the builders acknowledge that they’re using Gibson’s shapes, then Gibson will give them permission to create guitars using those shapes after coming to specific terms.

    There's more of interest in that article but for everyone to digest on their own.

  7. #555
    Registered User slimt's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2015
    Location
    Alberta
    Posts
    299

    Default Re: Gibson threatening the mandolin and guitar luthier community

    when you see stuff like this as plain as day.. it makes you wonder if they really are making a effort to protect there brand..

    https://www.ebay.com/itm/Headway-ASK...8AAOSwH3ddLZS2

  8. #556
    Registered User Al Trujillo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2015
    Location
    Southern Colorado
    Posts
    631

    Default Re: Gibson threatening the mandolin and guitar luthier community

    Quote Originally Posted by Mandolin Cafe View Post

    “Tone and timing of that video, clearly, lessons to be learned, but guess what: we’re taking down hundreds of websites, thousands of guitars we’re intercepting that are knockoffs, so it served a purpose,” James ‘JC’ Curleigh, president and CEO of Gibson, said.
    At his last stand, surveying the opponents before the end, even Gen. Custer realized he had stepped into a mess.

  9. The following members say thank you to Al Trujillo for this post:


  10. #557
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Location
    Columbus, GA
    Posts
    1,073

    Default Re: Gibson threatening the mandolin and guitar luthier community

    That "Mae West" shape has been around waaaay too long for anyone to even remotely consider calling it their own. It defines "generic."
    David Hopkins

    Breedlove Legacy FF; Breedlove Quartz FF
    Gibson F-4, (1916); Blevins Octave Mandolin, 2018
    McCormick Oval Sound Hole "Reinhardt"
    McCormick Solid Body F-Style Electric;
    Recording King Resophonic Mandolin; Slingerland Songbird Guitar (c. 1939)

    The older I get, the less tolerant I am of political correctness, incompetence and stupidity.

  11. #558
    Moderator MikeEdgerton's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    40.191N -74.2W
    Posts
    22,481

    Default Re: Gibson threatening the mandolin and guitar luthier community

    Quote Originally Posted by slimt View Post
    when you see stuff like this as plain as day.. it makes you wonder if they really are making a effort to protect there brand..

    https://www.ebay.com/itm/Headway-ASK...8AAOSwH3ddLZS2
    Wow, complete with bell shaped truss rod cover. For two grand you could get a used CEO series Martin that's not only a better knockoff but a better guitar.

    https://reverb.com/p/martin-ceo-7
    "Bargain instruments are no bargains if you can't play them". These are the words of J. Garber.

  12. #559
    Registered User Steve-o's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    Northern Michigan
    Posts
    1,174

    Default Re: Gibson threatening the mandolin and guitar luthier community

    Quote Originally Posted by Mandolin Cafe View Post

    In short, Gibson is planning to initially collaborate with 3-4 boutique guitar builders by entering into agreements where the builders acknowledge that they’re using Gibson’s shapes, then Gibson will give them permission to create guitars using those shapes after coming to specific terms.
    “Specific terms” such as licensing and licensing fees.

  13. #560

    Default Re: Gibson threatening the mandolin and guitar luthier community

    There's a special place in heck for trademark lawyers.
    VerneAndru.com | oKee.ComX

    - ---==< V >==--- -

  14. The following members say thank you to Verne Andru for this post:


  15. #561
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Location
    Columbus, GA
    Posts
    1,073

    Default Re: Gibson threatening the mandolin and guitar luthier community

    Quote Originally Posted by Verne Andru View Post
    There's a special place in heck for trademark lawyers.
    Well, I believe "our" trademark lawyer provided some good insight on this subject.
    David Hopkins

    Breedlove Legacy FF; Breedlove Quartz FF
    Gibson F-4, (1916); Blevins Octave Mandolin, 2018
    McCormick Oval Sound Hole "Reinhardt"
    McCormick Solid Body F-Style Electric;
    Recording King Resophonic Mandolin; Slingerland Songbird Guitar (c. 1939)

    The older I get, the less tolerant I am of political correctness, incompetence and stupidity.

  16. The Following 5 Users Say Thank You to DHopkins For This Useful Post:


  17. #562
    Registered User John Bertotti's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2002
    Location
    SD
    Posts
    2,733

    Default Re: Gibson threatening the mandolin and guitar luthier community

    Quote Originally Posted by CarlM View Post
    Quality time in Iowa City includes going down to the Mill every second and fourth Wednesday of the month to hear Bob Black (yes that Bob Black) and some of his friends play the real genuine bluegrass music. The cover charge is really minimal.

    Not to mention Greg Brown and a few others who occasionally get scheduled there for concerts in a real up close setting. Greg Brown grew up around here.

    Also the first weekend in June they have a community arts festival where they close the downtown streets and have art, food and free concerts with people like Sam Bush, Aiofe O Donovan, Tim O' Brien, Darrell Scott and the like as headliners. There is a similar level jazz festival once a year.

    So it is not all bad.
    I grew up 30 miles from Iowa City it was a nice town but a typical collage town. Certainly a good place to have a good time.
    My avatar is of my OldWave Oval A

    Creativity is just doing something wierd and finding out others like it.

  18. The following members say thank you to John Bertotti for this post:

    CarlM 

  19. #563

    Default Re: Gibson threatening the mandolin and guitar luthier community

    Quote Originally Posted by DHopkins View Post
    Well, I believe "our" trademark lawyer provided some good insight on this subject.
    At the end of the day everybody acknowledges that Gibson created the "violin-style" mandolin and adorned it with their unique headstock and scrolls that has made the F5 (and variants) so visually appealing and commercially successful. Gibson also created a similar line of guitars in the L5 and etc. Gibson created the Les Paul body shape, humbucker pickup, block inlays, and etc. Gibson also created the Explorer and other body shapes that are at issue with Dean. I don't believe there is any dispute anywhere as to who created the products at issue.

    Most US manufacturers respected each other's innovations - Fenders are different from Gibsons are different from Danelectros and etc. It wasn't until the late 1960s that knock-offs started entering the US market from places like Japan which is outside US trademark jurisdiction. If you recall Gibson did try to enforce the IP rights as the 1970s are known as the "lawsuit" era even though the actions didn't get much further than lawyers letters AFAIK.

    So what's this about? It's about another manufacturer appropriating the fruits Gibson's creativity for their own commercial gain. The lawyers job is to work the legal minute in such a way that the proper owner of the property (Gibson) is denied their ability to exclusively benefit from their innovation and work.

    Trademark law is all about the money and the lawyers are paid to - excuse the use of the term - "steal" rights wherever and whenever they can. IP law also has some of the highest legal fees in the industry making it almost impossible to protect your creations without more money for lawyers than you can expect to see in commercial sales.

    Take the lawyers out of the equation and most of these problems go away.

    I'm not here to defend Gibson. I'm here to defend the rights of the creators who are being denied their ability to enjoy the fruits of their labors because somebody has the financial means to hire a bunch of slime-ball lawyers to legally appropriate what isn't rightfully theirs.
    VerneAndru.com | oKee.ComX

    - ---==< V >==--- -

  20. The following members say thank you to Verne Andru for this post:


  21. #564
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Oct 2018
    Location
    New Jersey, USA
    Posts
    95

    Default Re: Gibson threatening the mandolin and guitar luthier community

    Quote Originally Posted by Verne Andru View Post
    At the end of the day everybody acknowledges that Gibson created the "violin-style" mandolin and adorned it with their unique headstock and scrolls that has made the F5 (and variants) so visually appealing and commercially successful. Gibson also created a similar line of guitars in the L5 and etc. Gibson created the Les Paul body shape, humbucker pickup, block inlays, and etc. Gibson also created the Explorer and other body shapes that are at issue with Dean. I don't believe there is any dispute anywhere as to who created the products at issue.

    Most US manufacturers respected each other's innovations - Fenders are different from Gibsons are different from Danelectros and etc. It wasn't until the late 1960s that knock-offs started entering the US market from places like Japan which is outside US trademark jurisdiction. If you recall Gibson did try to enforce the IP rights as the 1970s are known as the "lawsuit" era even though the actions didn't get much further than lawyers letters AFAIK.

    So what's this about? It's about another manufacturer appropriating the fruits Gibson's creativity for their own commercial gain. The lawyers job is to work the legal minute in such a way that the proper owner of the property (Gibson) is denied their ability to exclusively benefit from their innovation and work.

    Trademark law is all about the money and the lawyers are paid to - excuse the use of the term - "steal" rights wherever and whenever they can. IP law also has some of the highest legal fees in the industry making it almost impossible to protect your creations without more money for lawyers than you can expect to see in commercial sales.

    Take the lawyers out of the equation and most of these problems go away.

    I'm not here to defend Gibson. I'm here to defend the rights of the creators who are being denied their ability to enjoy the fruits of their labors because somebody has the financial means to hire a bunch of slime-ball lawyers to legally appropriate what isn't rightfully theirs.
    Understand your point, but I dont think Gibson winning in court is going to be a financial windfall for them and "enjoy the fruits of their labors". I think most buyers are making purchase decisions based on cost and perceived value. Let's say Gibson forces Dean to stop making "flying V" shaped guitars. Is that person now going to decide that he's willing to spend $6000 versus the <$1000 he was going to spend on the DEan or will he/she simply decide the body style is not worth thousands of dollars?

  22. #565
    Administrator Mandolin Cafe's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 1998
    Posts
    1,767
    Blog Entries
    8

    Default Re: Gibson threatening the mandolin and guitar luthier community

    1910 Shutt.

    Name:  shutt.png
Views: 412
Size:  44.3 KB

  23. The Following 7 Users Say Thank You to Mandolin Cafe For This Useful Post:


  24. #566
    Registered User Timbofood's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Kalamazoo, MI.
    Posts
    6,944

    Default Re: Gibson threatening the mandolin and guitar luthier community

    Okey Dokey then, I actually might go to Iowa city but I don’t know when. Obviously, it would have to be the second or fourth Wednesday of the month.
    Timothy F. Lewis
    "If brains was lard, that boy couldn't grease a very big skillet" J.D. Clampett

  25. The following members say thank you to Timbofood for this post:

    CarlM 

  26. #567
    Registered User John Van Zandt's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2019
    Location
    Mobile Bay
    Posts
    30

    Default Re: Gibson threatening the mandolin and guitar luthier community

    Individuals or companies that are forced to defend themselves? Perhaps some of you have never been on the receiving end?

    Once an individual or company is forced into legal expenses for that defense, it can be very expensive. You might say, from a corporate perspective, it's earning/ profits out the window. Money that will never be recovered because judges generally don't allow an 'accused' to recover legal expenses from the plaintiff. Not in the U.S., at least.

    I've served on a Circuit Court jury in which the accused was involved in a frivolous suit which caused him to close his business, relocate to reestablish his life, and much more. He was found not guilty in minutes after deliberations began.
    Kentucky KM-380

  27. #568

    Default Re: Gibson threatening the mandolin and guitar luthier community

    Quote Originally Posted by Mandolin Cafe View Post
    1910 Shutt.
    Agree! Albert Shutt of Topeka, Kansas was essentially co-inventor (with Orville Gibson) of the 'American Mandolin' as distinct from its European ancestors. Carved, violin-style top and back plates with bent sides were created by Orville and refined extensively by the early Gibson company. Elevated fingerboard and use of ff-holes in a carved-top instrument were the contributions of Shutt circa 1910. Lloyd Loar was very likely aware of Shutt's designs when he oversaw the addition of these features in the Gibson Master Model guitars and mandolins in the 1920s.
    BradKlein
    Senior Producer, Twangbox®
    Twangbox® Videos

  28. #569
    Registered User John Bertotti's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2002
    Location
    SD
    Posts
    2,733

    Default Re: Gibson threatening the mandolin and guitar luthier community

    Quote Originally Posted by Verne Andru View Post
    At the end of the day everybody acknowledges that Gibson created the "violin-style" mandolin and adorned it with their unique headstock and scrolls that has made the F5 (and variants) so visually appealing and commercially successful. Gibson also created a similar line of guitars in the L5 and etc. Gibson created the Les Paul body shape, humbucker pickup, block inlays, and etc. Gibson also created the Explorer and other body shapes that are at issue with Dean. I don't believe there is any dispute anywhere as to who created the products at issue.

    Most US manufacturers respected each other's innovations - Fenders are different from Gibsons are different from Danelectros and etc. It wasn't until the late 1960s that knock-offs started entering the US market from places like Japan which is outside US trademark jurisdiction. If you recall Gibson did try to enforce the IP rights as the 1970s are known as the "lawsuit" era even though the actions didn't get much further than lawyers letters AFAIK.

    So what's this about? It's about another manufacturer appropriating the fruits Gibson's creativity for their own commercial gain. The lawyers job is to work the legal minute in such a way that the proper owner of the property (Gibson) is denied their ability to exclusively benefit from their innovation and work.

    Trademark law is all about the money and the lawyers are paid to - excuse the use of the term - "steal" rights wherever and whenever they can. IP law also has some of the highest legal fees in the industry making it almost impossible to protect your creations without more money for lawyers than you can expect to see in commercial sales.

    Take the lawyers out of the equation and most of these problems go away.

    I'm not here to defend Gibson. I'm here to defend the rights of the creators who are being denied their ability to enjoy the fruits of their labors because somebody has the financial means to hire a bunch of slime-ball lawyers to legally appropriate what isn't rightfully theirs.
    Don't lump me into the everybody becasue I don't agree.
    My avatar is of my OldWave Oval A

    Creativity is just doing something wierd and finding out others like it.

  29. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to John Bertotti For This Useful Post:


  30. #570

    Default Re: Gibson threatening the mandolin and guitar luthier community

    Quote Originally Posted by DaveGinNJ View Post
    Understand your point, but I dont think Gibson winning in court is going to be a financial windfall for them and "enjoy the fruits of their labors". I think most buyers are making purchase decisions based on cost and perceived value. Let's say Gibson forces Dean to stop making "flying V" shaped guitars. Is that person now going to decide that he's willing to spend $6000 versus the <$1000 he was going to spend on the DEan or will he/she simply decide the body style is not worth thousands of dollars?
    I'm with you as a consumer of this type of product. I want to get the best value for my dollar and that often precludes products with a premium price-point. Gibson makes no bones about the fact that their brand is 100% made in the US and purposefully charges a premium for that. Gibson also owns Epiphone, which BTW is the largest seller of guitars in the word, that provides very high-quality and affordable versions of the premium Gibson's, so they have the markets pretty well covered. I'm assuming the legal work exists to show Epiphone is effectively licensing Gibson's marks.

    Any registered trademarks Gibson has owned for over 5 years can only be struck if fraud is proven. As fraud has never been proven to date AFAIK in any trademark proceeding under the Lanham Act it's pretty safe to say that any registrations Gibson owns are safe from challenges. Common law marks are more challenging. The legal concept of "reverse confusion" whereby a competitor sneaks up on a trademark to the extent they appropriate it, then use it to challenge the original owner (which could be argued in this case), is one of the core concepts the Lanham Act was designed to address. Just because the registrant is "weak" at one point doesn't mean a "stronger" challenger is free to do as they wish. There is also established precedents that allow for weak marks becoming strong over time, so the level of market strength a mark may or may not have isn't supposed to be much of a consideration in a "reverse confusion" scenario.

    Stepping back for a moment and looking at trademark law as we're transitioning into the interconnected digital age, you can do a lot with a registered mark these days that wasn't even a consideration before. The internet is controlled by a few large US based entities [which are subject to enforce US law] so it's very easy to shut down a competitor anywhere in the world by simply providing a US registration number. Not being able to do Google advertising, run videos on YouTube and etc. can seriously impede a businesses ability to function these days. As a consequence more and more emphasis is being placed on securing registrations than in the past as those with the IP can control much of what moves along the digital highways, which is where the markets have moved.

    We're living through Alvin Toffler's "Future Shock" as we transition into the information age. Those who own the intellectual property rights going into the future will be the big winners. I think this may be probably closer to the heart of this current wrangling than a few Dean Explorers.
    VerneAndru.com | oKee.ComX

    - ---==< V >==--- -

  31. #571

    Default Re: Gibson threatening the mandolin and guitar luthier community

    ...
    Last edited by atsunrise; Jul-16-2019 at 2:22pm. Reason: Ooops wrong thread

  32. #572
    Registered User slimt's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2015
    Location
    Alberta
    Posts
    299

    Default Re: Gibson threatening the mandolin and guitar luthier community

    Quote Originally Posted by Mandolin Cafe View Post
    Several new news articles appearing today. Several quotes certainly attention getting.

    Gibson shifts from confrontation to collaboration with Gibson Authorized Partnership Program

    “Tone and timing of that video, clearly, lessons to be learned, but guess what: we’re taking down hundreds of websites, thousands of guitars we’re intercepting that are knockoffs, so it served a purpose,” James ‘JC’ Curleigh, president and CEO of Gibson, said.

    In short, Gibson is planning to initially collaborate with 3-4 boutique guitar builders by entering into agreements where the builders acknowledge that they’re using Gibson’s shapes, then Gibson will give them permission to create guitars using those shapes after coming to specific terms.

    There's more of interest in that article but for everyone to digest on their own.

    As a Lawyer said to me once. Dont sign nothing. Once you do your liable for anything they see fit to get you on.

  33. #573
    Registered User Joe Dodson's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    Houston, TX
    Posts
    544

    Default Re: Gibson threatening the mandolin and guitar luthier community

    So, what I'm getting is they've realized they're in the middle of a PR nightmare, and they've got some vague sort-of plan for people to pay them money to get them out of it. Details to be ironed out later. Maybe. But the important thing is they're winning like tiger blood.

    In short, Gibson is planning to initially collaborate with 3-4 boutique guitar builders by entering into agreements where the builders acknowledge that they’re using Gibson’s shapes, then Gibson will give them permission to create guitars using those shapes after coming to specific terms.

    It will be through the new Gibson Authorized Partnership Program, which will involve agreements where builders may only be able to build a certain amount of those guitars, and there may be a royalty dynamic or licensing involved (details are still being ironed out), but Curleigh said that Gibson would support the builders in terms of marketing, and it’s not meant to be a revenue generator for Gibson, rather, a way to allow builders to continue using Gibson shapes, but this time in a mutually-agreed upon way.

  34. #574
    Scroll Lock Austin Bob's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2012
    Location
    Austin, Tx - some call it heaven
    Posts
    1,050

    Default Re: Gibson threatening the mandolin and guitar luthier community

    Quote Originally Posted by Mandolin Cafe View Post
    “Tone and timing of that video, clearly, lessons to be learned, but guess what: we’re taking down hundreds of websites, thousands of guitars we’re intercepting that are knockoffs, so it served a purpose,” James ‘JC’ Curleigh, president and CEO of Gibson, said.
    Mr. Curleigh starts off by offering a bit of an apology for the video, but immediately takes it back by implying that the ends justifies the means.

    I fail to see how a snarky video can lead to capturing counterfeit guitars. Do the criminals say to themselves: "Man, that Mark Agnesi guy scares me, I'd better call Gibson and tell them where those crates of fakes are!"
    A quarter tone flat and a half a beat behind.

  35. The following members say thank you to Austin Bob for this post:


  36. #575
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Location
    Columbus, GA
    Posts
    1,073

    Default Re: Gibson threatening the mandolin and guitar luthier community

    Quote Originally Posted by Austin Bob View Post
    I fail to see how a snarky video can lead to capturing counterfeit guitars. Do the criminals say to themselves: "Man, that Mark Agnesi guy scares me, I'd better call Gibson and tell them where those crates of fakes are!"
    Those are posted for our benefit. When things slow down, they throw one of those up.
    David Hopkins

    Breedlove Legacy FF; Breedlove Quartz FF
    Gibson F-4, (1916); Blevins Octave Mandolin, 2018
    McCormick Oval Sound Hole "Reinhardt"
    McCormick Solid Body F-Style Electric;
    Recording King Resophonic Mandolin; Slingerland Songbird Guitar (c. 1939)

    The older I get, the less tolerant I am of political correctness, incompetence and stupidity.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •