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Thread: Gibson threatening the mandolin and guitar luthier community

  1. #526
    Administrator Mandolin Cafe's Avatar
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    Default Re: Gibson threatening the mandolin and guitar luthier community

    Quote Originally Posted by Russ Jordan View Post
    Does anyone know of action taken by Gibson against other mandolin companies/builders?
    Yes, inside and outside U.S. At least one large company not named Collings (because I know someone will claim that having no idea) and several highly recognizable, high end, well known builders. For those interested, no, we are not going to name those for public consumption. If they wanted to be identified they would have stated as such already.

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  3. #527
    Registered User Gan Ainm's Avatar
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    Default Re: Gibson threatening the mandolin and guitar luthier community

    Dillon:
    Uh Oh. The University of Georgia (where I work) claims copyrights on "Dawgs" and even "Hairy Dawg" (!).
    I think that means you have to immediately pack up that mandolin with the puppy and send it to me!

    Now they also claim "Bulldogs", so I am not sure how that works for certain dog breeders and dog shows...

    Might have something to do as to why we never see Grissman-esque "DAWG" T-Shirts or hats.
    Wonder if anyone has copyrighted "Can of Worms". If not, I claim it for my next mando design and general life philosophy!

  4. #528

    Default Re: Gibson threatening the mandolin and guitar luthier community

    Quote Originally Posted by Mandolin Cafe View Post
    Yes, inside and outside U.S. At least one large company not named Collings (because I know someone will claim that having no idea) and several highly recognizable, high end, well known builders. For those interested, no, we are not going to name those for public consumption. If they wanted to be identified they would have stated as such already.
    Are we talking about a cease and desist letter, or are there suits? Seems like mandolins would be pretty far down in their list of priorities to bring actual cases to court. I can imagine their printers are running pretty continuously with cease and desist letters, though.

  5. #529
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    Default Re: Gibson threatening the mandolin and guitar luthier community

    Quote Originally Posted by Marty Jacobson View Post
    Are we talking about a cease and desist letter, or are there suits? Seems like mandolins would be pretty far down in their list of priorities to bring actual cases to court. I can imagine their printers are running pretty continuously with cease and desist letters, though.
    Addressed in the opening post and several times throughout the entire discussion. I realize this thread has gotten ridiculously long but I want to resist the temptation for members and readers to think I'm the author of everything Gibson is engaged in. I can only speak to what I've seen and there may be more, but I have serious doubts that any of it has any more teeth so to speak than what I've already witnessed. I think this is rapidly moving beyond mandolins with no success to guitars which is where the real action is going to occur.
    Last edited by Mandolin Cafe; Jul-10-2019 at 3:41pm.

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  7. #530
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    Default Re: Gibson threatening the mandolin and guitar luthier community

    Quote Originally Posted by foldedpath View Post
    And Courtney Love...
    I have to imagine this is the first time Courtney Love's name has come up on Mandolin Cafe!

  8. #531
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    Default Re: Gibson threatening the mandolin and guitar luthier community

    Quote Originally Posted by DaveGinNJ View Post
    I have to imagine this is the first time Courtney Love's name has come up on Mandolin Cafe!
    You would be wrong.

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  10. #532
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    Default Re: Gibson threatening the mandolin and guitar luthier community

    Quote Originally Posted by Mandolin Cafe View Post
    That should have been my line
    "Bargain instruments are no bargains if you can't play them". These are the words of J. Garber.

  11. #533
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    Default Re: Gibson threatening the mandolin and guitar luthier community

    Quote Originally Posted by Mandolin Cafe View Post
    I stand corrected. I am a Hole fan but that has no bearing on my interest in mandolin

  12. #534
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    Default Re: Gibson threatening the mandolin and guitar luthier community

    Quote Originally Posted by Russ Jordan View Post
    Does anyone know of action taken by Gibson against other mandolin companies/builders?
    I don't think they really care. Mandolins are a very poor second (or worse) on their priority list.
    David Hopkins

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    Gibson F-4, (1916); Blevins Octave Mandolin, 2018
    McCormick Oval Sound Hole "Reinhardt"
    McCormick Solid Body F-Style Electric;
    Recording King Resophonic Mandolin; Slingerland Songbird Guitar (c. 1939)

    The older I get, the less tolerant I am of political correctness, incompetence and stupidity.

  13. #535

    Default Re: Gibson threatening the mandolin and guitar luthier community

    I love the tape Mike....
    " Practice every time you get a chance." - Bill Monroe

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  15. #536
    Certified! Bernie Daniel's Avatar
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    Default Re: Gibson threatening the mandolin and guitar luthier community

    Quote Originally Posted by Wolfboy View Post
    Maybe we should put these folks on the case: https://www.deanandgibson.com/
    That's pretty neat -- they could work things out in-house!
    Bernie
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  16. #537

    Default Re: Gibson threatening the mandolin and guitar luthier community

    Quote Originally Posted by MikeEdgerton View Post
    Was the F body style design patented? Has anyone got a copy of the patent? A quick search doesn't turn up any F style patents.

    Orville's patent isn't much like the Gibson mandolin turned out to be. I think that's part of the issue here.

    I don't think they ever did anything to protect the F design. I seriously doubt they will be able to claim it after this much time being in the wind.
    I touched on this back on Post#265 https://www.mandolincafe.com/forum/t...=1#post1721138 the long & short of it being that they tried and eventually had to abandon their attempt at the trademark for the body design. I also touched on the headstock/fern & flowerpot trademark.

  17. #538
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    Default Re: Gibson threatening the mandolin and guitar luthier community

    I don't think they have a snowball's chance in hell of defending the f-style design. Like I said 3 weeks ago: it's too little, too late. As for the rest of it, I know what think should happen but I've been involved in the court system for many years and I learned long ago not to second-guess anything they do.
    David Hopkins

    Breedlove Legacy FF; Breedlove Quartz FF
    Gibson F-4, (1916); Blevins Octave Mandolin, 2018
    McCormick Oval Sound Hole "Reinhardt"
    McCormick Solid Body F-Style Electric;
    Recording King Resophonic Mandolin; Slingerland Songbird Guitar (c. 1939)

    The older I get, the less tolerant I am of political correctness, incompetence and stupidity.

  18. #539
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    Default Re: Gibson threatening the mandolin and guitar luthier community

    Quote Originally Posted by Hermann Winchester View Post
    I touched on this back on Post#265 https://www.mandolincafe.com/forum/t...=1#post1721138 the long & short of it being that they tried and eventually had to abandon their attempt at the trademark for the body design. I also touched on the headstock/fern & flowerpot trademark.
    It was more of a rhetorical question in response to a message above my post.
    "Bargain instruments are no bargains if you can't play them". These are the words of J. Garber.

  19. #540
    Registered User Timbofood's Avatar
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    Default Re: Gibson threatening the mandolin and guitar luthier community

    Nice tape job Mike, looks like an old “naughty” picture with tape over the eyes!
    Timothy F. Lewis
    "If brains was lard, that boy couldn't grease a very big skillet" J.D. Clampett

  20. #541
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    Default Re: Gibson threatening the mandolin and guitar luthier community


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    Registered User slimt's Avatar
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    Default Re: Gibson threatening the mandolin and guitar luthier community

    Gibson must be selling alot of off brand,off shore Guitars that look like Gibsons to be able to afford all of this Non sense..

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  24. #544
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    Default Re: Gibson threatening the mandolin and guitar luthier community

    They will probably be closer to the attorney's offices. Might save them some travel expense.
    "Bargain instruments are no bargains if you can't play them". These are the words of J. Garber.

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  26. #545
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    Default Re: Gibson threatening the mandolin and guitar luthier community

    Bates & Bates Intellectual Property Law which represents them in the documentation I saw has offices in Atlanta, Florida, Hawaii, Iowa City, Los Angeles and Washington D.C. The attorney that signed said letter has an Atlanta area code phone.

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  28. #546
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    Default Re: Gibson threatening the mandolin and guitar luthier community

    OK, so that's out. They are moving downtown to show their commitment to Nashville but obviously don't need to show any Nashville lawyers any love.
    "Bargain instruments are no bargains if you can't play them". These are the words of J. Garber.

  29. #547

    Default Re: Gibson threatening the mandolin and guitar luthier community

    Quote Originally Posted by Mandolin Cafe View Post
    Bates & Bates Intellectual Property Law which represents them in the documentation I saw has offices in Atlanta, Florida, Hawaii, Iowa City, Los Angeles and Washington D.C. The attorney that signed said letter has an Atlanta area code phone.
    Atlanta?
    Isn’t that where... oh no, we’re not going to see a whole load of Disney film remakes with everyone from Tom and Jerry to Cinderella playing Gibson mandolins?
    Please, no!

  30. #548
    Registered User Timbofood's Avatar
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    Default Re: Gibson threatening the mandolin and guitar luthier community

    Oooh, I really want to spend some quality time in Iowa City!
    Timothy F. Lewis
    "If brains was lard, that boy couldn't grease a very big skillet" J.D. Clampett

  31. #549
    Mando-Accumulator Jim Garber's Avatar
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    Default Re: Gibson threatening the mandolin and guitar luthier community

    Rather than read this very long thread, I will take the risk of presenting an already-discussed topic which Gibson seems to have registered as trademarks these identifying characteristics rather than copyrights or design patents. I know they have a long history of design patents but I wonder why they took that route. Part of it might be that they can register concepts that do not exist in production as yet.

    There are mulitple articles on the differences between these but this is pretty concise and explains it well: Comparing Design Patents to Copyrights and Trademarks .
    Jim

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  33. #550
    Registered User grassrootphilosopher's Avatar
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    Default Re: Gibson threatening the mandolin and guitar luthier community

    Quote Originally Posted by Timbofood View Post
    Oooh, I really want to spend some quality time in Iowa City!
    No, you donīt.

    @ Mike Edgerton: You have to remove the black from the writing. Itīs not the old "Gibson" that you must punish. (as I am very [!] much in favor of my Southerner Jumbo)

    I think that the same inadept person that was responsible for the ultimate thrashing of other builders is to be held responsible for the additional (liguistically absolutely iresponsible) press release.

    It does not disqualify the awesome old Gibson guitars and mandolins. It does not belittle the nice Gibson guitars of the 90ies and the great Gibson mandolins from under Charlie Derrington, Danny Roberts and Dave Harvey.

    The criticism goes out to the legal blockheads that clearly try to bully their way around whatīs legally right.

    The interesting questions to ask are
    - did Gibson originate the build paterns that they use(d)
    - have they continuously used the build paterns
    - have they continuously fought against copyists

    In our mandolin community I think I am save to claim that Gibson did care less than to proscecute against luthiers that used (former) Gibson patterns.

    The same might be said about Gibson guitar patterns.

    Other than that, I do not blame anyone that fights for their intelectual property rights. (I donīt think that Gibson is at fault If they try to protect property rights that they still hold; they are just not the ones that concern any mandolin shapes [flowerpot, fern, body shape etc.], guitar shapes [Les Paul, flying V etc.]).

    Lawyers are out to make money. A firm is well advised to not make a stink when nothing is to be gained. The combination of a legal department wanting to make money and a firm wanting to pursue their ideas can be toxic when - like in this case - the goal cannot be reached. Comon sense ought to be the guideline.
    Last edited by grassrootphilosopher; Jul-15-2019 at 5:21pm. Reason: I pray forgive all my spelling mistakes at this time of night
    Olaf

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