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Thread: Necks

  1. #26
    Registered User tonydxn's Avatar
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    Default Re: Necks

    My V joint is different from both of those. Here is a shot of a couple of dummies I made when I was first working this out. I hope it's clear how the V tapers (front to back of the head). The string tension pulls the head onto the taper.
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    I only use these on steel-string guitar builds. I can't do them in 45 minutes though, like Mirwa!
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    German flatback by unknown maker converted from a descant Waldzither

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  3. #27
    Registered User jim simpson's Avatar
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    Default Re: Necks

    I've found this thread's discussion of joints interesting, it made me wonder about a joint that I have seen in furniture and noticed it's use in some guitar neck construction. I wonder what the strength of this finger joint would be compared to a scarf joint?
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    Cabin Fever String Band, Bill Gorby and the Musical Mercenaries

  4. #28
    Registered User John Bertotti's Avatar
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    Default Re: Necks

    Quote Originally Posted by jim simpson View Post
    I've found this thread's discussion of joints interesting, it made me wonder about a joint that I have seen in furniture and noticed it's use in some guitar neck construction. I wonder what the strength of this finger joint would be compared to a scarf joint?
    Finger joints are used a lot in wood working and cabinet making and I have seen engineered 2x4 also joined this way. Keeping in mind my cabinet making classes were over 30 years ago I think the theory was the increased surface area of the joint increase the strength. I don’t see any reason it wouldn’t be as strong or stronger than a scarf joint. At least in my head this makes sense, in reality I don’t know for sure.
    My avatar is of my OldWave Oval A

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  5. #29
    Adrian Minarovic
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    Default Re: Necks

    Quote Originally Posted by John Bertotti View Post
    Finger joints are used a lot in wood working and cabinet making and I have seen engineered 2x4 also joined this way. Keeping in mind my cabinet making classes were over 30 years ago I think the theory was the increased surface area of the joint increase the strength. I don’t see any reason it wouldn’t be as strong or stronger than a scarf joint. At least in my head this makes sense, in reality I don’t know for sure.
    I guess this one will not be stronger than scarf. Scarf uses all of the surface for side grain joint (relatively - some angle 10-15 is present) this finger joint appears to heve quite a bit of endgrain at the blunt tips of the fingers that are the weak spot. I've seen finger joints (also on guitars) with much longer and pointy fingers that should be much better in this respect. Also pacing this joint right under the nut in the weakest spot of the neck is not optimal. The more serious ones I've seen had the joint higher where the headstock is wide and covered with backing veneer.
    Below is how it looks when such guitar gets bumped (or heated) - definitely unrepairable by simple common methods (perhaps substantial backstrap if you manage to get the splintered pieces glued together decently aligned). (but they are mostly on guitars where new factory neck replacement is not that hard to get..)
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    Adrian

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  7. #30
    Registered User John Bertotti's Avatar
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    Default Re: Necks

    Quote Originally Posted by HoGo View Post
    I guess this one will not be stronger than scarf. Scarf uses all of the surface for side grain joint (relatively - some angle 10-15 is present) this finger joint appears to heve quite a bit of endgrain at the blunt tips of the fingers that are the weak spot. I've seen finger joints (also on guitars) with much longer and pointy fingers that should be much better in this respect. Also pacing this joint right under the nut in the weakest spot of the neck is not optimal. The more serious ones I've seen had the joint higher where the headstock is wide and covered with backing veneer.
    Below is how it looks when such guitar gets bumped (or heated) - definitely unrepairable by simple common methods (perhaps substantial backstrap if you manage to get the splintered pieces glued together decently aligned). (but they are mostly on guitars where new factory neck replacement is not that hard to get..)
    Well, looks like I was wrong! I would certainly take HoGo’s assessment over mine! I see what he means though with those square fingers looking at an engineered 2x4 the fingers are all tapered not squared off.
    My avatar is of my OldWave Oval A

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  8. #31
    Adrian Minarovic
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    Default Re: Necks

    The neck in the pic was subjected to the "airline treatment" but you can clearly see how the glue joint failed - the first two fingers are cleanly separated. Had this guitar solid headstock the break would likely be clean and simple glueing with HHG and minimal touchup of clear nitro would bring it into service, very likely the result would be nearly invisible if done by good luthier and even cheaper guitar would be worth repairing. The guitar above is good candidate for trip back to Stonebridge/Furch factory for a new neck (I guess they do bolt on necks so no huge deal...).
    For me thinking what might happen with my instrument in the future is quite important (even if I will not be the one to face the damage). The owner will than you if the instrument can be repaired with good chances for strong and good loking result with not too much effort or cost on luthier's side.
    Adrian

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  10. #32
    Registered User John Bertotti's Avatar
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    Default Re: Necks

    Quote Originally Posted by HoGo View Post
    The neck in the pic was subjected to the "airline treatment" but you can clearly see how the glue joint failed - the first two fingers are cleanly separated. Had this guitar solid headstock the break would likely be clean and simple glueing with HHG and minimal touchup of clear nitro would bring it into service, very likely the result would be nearly invisible if done by good luthier and even cheaper guitar would be worth repairing. The guitar above is good candidate for trip back to Stonebridge/Furch factory for a new neck (I guess they do bolt on necks so no huge deal...).
    For me thinking what might happen with my instrument in the future is quite important (even if I will not be the one to face the damage). The owner will than you if the instrument can be repaired with good chances for strong and good loking result with not too much effort or cost on luthier's side.
    Great example thanks HoGo, any chance you have a back view of that busted joint?
    My avatar is of my OldWave Oval A

    Creativity is just doing something wierd and finding out others like it.

  11. #33
    Adrian Minarovic
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    Default Re: Necks

    No, sorry. I remembered I saw that one on internet years ago and managed to find it...
    Adrian

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  13. #34
    Registered User John Bertotti's Avatar
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    Default Re: Necks

    Quote Originally Posted by HoGo View Post
    No, sorry. I remembered I saw that one on internet years ago and managed to find it...
    No worries! I just thought it would be interesting to see the other side. Still learned a lot in this thread!
    My avatar is of my OldWave Oval A

    Creativity is just doing something wierd and finding out others like it.

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