Results 1 to 20 of 20

Thread: I need some serious help...

  1. #1
    Registered User Froglips's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    Arizona
    Posts
    29

    Default I need some serious help...

    I live in Arizona, and we have a thing called the Arizona Bluegrass Association. They just started hosting these jams every 2nd Thursday of every month.

    So... They gave me the 3 songs to learn for this coming Thursday, but two of them I cannot seem to figure out a good strum pattern for. I feel stupid because I can not pick up on the mando strum patterns from the recordings.

    Anyway, I was wondering if you guys could help me with this.

    The three songs are, Hot Corn Cold Corn, I'm on my way back to the old home (Bill Monroe), and The old home place (Dillards).

    I am pretty sure these are all public domain songs. So please do not flog the frog for asking for copyrighted material, because I am not intentionally doing so.

    Thank you in advance, everyone.

    Sincerely,

    Frog...
    Frog...

    It's not how you pick your nose ... It's where you put the booger!

  2. #2
    Gibson F5L Gibson A5L
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Posts
    2,079
    Blog Entries
    1

    Default Re: I need some serious help...

    OK …. these are three standards …. The mandolin plays … chops … on the back beat. This is Grass mandolin 101. If you figure a song is in 4/4 time you will be strumming a down stroke across all strings once each second and fourth beat. Or in other words on the and of one and two and three and four. The grass chop is a technique you will need to work on. It involves letting the tension off a chord momentarily after your pick strikes across the strings so you achieve a pop of the chord sound but not a ringing tone. There are several threads on chopping on chords. Using four finger chord forms is standard but three finger chord forms work too. R/
    I love hanging out with mandolin nerds . . . . . Thanks peeps ...

  3. #3
    Registered User Froglips's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    Arizona
    Posts
    29

    Default Re: I need some serious help...

    Quote Originally Posted by UsuallyPickin View Post
    OK …. these are three standards …. The mandolin plays … chops … on the back beat. This is Grass mandolin 101. If you figure a song is in 4/4 time you will be strumming a down stroke across all strings once each second and fourth beat. Or in other words on the and of one and two and three and four. The grass chop is a technique you will need to work on. It involves letting the tension off a chord momentarily after your pick strikes across the strings so you achieve a pop of the chord sound but not a ringing tone. There are several threads on chopping on chords. Using four finger chord forms is standard but three finger chord forms work too. R/
    So all of those songs are in 4/4, and I can basically play them all on the 1st and 3rd beat, or the 2nd and 4th beat? Just one chop or chuck per beat to blend in with everyone else then? Listen for the bass and use that as my beat anchor so to speak?

    I am sorry to bother you with this, because I normally do not have this problem, because I normally have an actual recorded version song/band book with the songs in music notation as well as tab. I just do not have any Bluegrass standards, and old time music tab books yet. If they even exist that is. I would just be happy with bluegrass chord and strum pattern books actually.

    Thank you for your help, Usuallypickin!

    Frog...
    Frog...

    It's not how you pick your nose ... It's where you put the booger!

  4. #4

    Default Re: I need some serious help...

    No you play opposite the bass. Bass is on 1 and 3. You are on 2 and 4. So you play the Chuck bass plays the boom. It goes boom,chuck,boom, chuck, as infinitum. Pull up some versions on YouTube and listen for it.

  5. #5
    Registered User Froglips's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    Arizona
    Posts
    29

    Default Re: I need some serious help...

    Hey, Usuallypickin, or anyone?

    He also gave me all of the other songs for July, and the songs they worked on from the previous jams. They are, All the good times, I'll fly away, My homes across the blueridge mountains, Blue ridge cabin home, Mama don't allow, Katy Daley, Bury me beneath the willow, 5 pounds of possum, Hand me down my walkin cane, In the pines, Wreck of the old 97, and Your love is like a flower.

    Are all of these songs considered bluegrass standards, and do I play them basically the same as the others? On the 1st and 3rd, or the 2nd and 4th?

    Thanks again.

    Frog...
    Frog...

    It's not how you pick your nose ... It's where you put the booger!

  6. #6
    Registered User Froglips's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    Arizona
    Posts
    29

    Default Re: I need some serious help...

    Quote Originally Posted by Josh Levine View Post
    No you play opposite the bass. Bass is on 1 and 3. You are on 2 and 4. So you play the Chuck bass plays the boom. It goes boom,chuck,boom, chuck, as infinitum. Pull up some versions on YouTube and listen for it.
    OK... Got it!
    Always on 2 and 4?

    Thanks,
    Frog...

    It's not how you pick your nose ... It's where you put the booger!

  7. #7

    Default Re: I need some serious help...

    I think you mentioned you are a guitar player so you know about boom-chuck, mandos generally play on the chuck part. So grab your chord play a false boom and then chuck across the strings on beats 2 and 4. You really need to pull these tunes up on YouTube and listen, listen, listen and try and play along. Videos on YT can be easily slowed down or get the Amazing Slow Downer app. Also, check out Banjo Ben he has tons of lessons covering many if not all the tunes you listed. Mandolessons and Pickin’ Lessons also have tons of material on BG tunes. Good luck and have fun, it’s hard at first but you’ll be pickin’ and grinnin’ soon!
    Northfield F5M #268, AT02 #7

  8. #8
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    charlottesville, VA
    Posts
    1,036

    Default Re: I need some serious help...

    You might be able to find some slower paced backing tracks on Youtube.
    Mitch Russell

  9. #9
    Peace. Love. Mandolin. Gelsenbury's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Canterbury, Kent
    Posts
    643
    Blog Entries
    5

    Default Re: I need some serious help...

    I hardly know any of the songs you mentioned, but a chop chord on the 2 and 4 in 4/4 time is a good starting point. As you become more secure in this, and get used to the songs and the other players, you'll notice when some extra ornamentation (could be as simple as an upstroke between chops) is appropriate. If you're like me, your first task is simply to keep up with the speed even with the simplest of strumming patterns.

  10. #10
    Registered User wildpikr's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    Louisiana, USA
    Posts
    635

    Default Re: I need some serious help...

    Quote Originally Posted by Froglips View Post
    OK... Got it!
    Always on 2 and 4?

    Thanks,
    Looks like you have all the basic strum instructions at this point, huh? If you want to learn more songs here's a link to Dix Bruce's website; http://www.musixnow.com/

    He sells instructional materials, etc. but a book/CD set that might prove helpful is the 'Parking lot Picker's Songbook' published for mandolin, guitar, banjo, dobro, fiddle...there are lots of the bluegrass and old time tunes including some that you listed and many more. The included CD outlines the tune with a simple melody.

    Might be a good way to learn melodies so that you can take a break too.

    This is just one idea - there are piles of instructional materials out there.

    Anyway, hope this helps...and have fun!

    BTW where in Arizona? Sometimes I get out to the Phoenix area...
    Mike

    Those who think they should think, like they think others think they should think, need to think out their thinking, I think.

    No envejecemos, maduramos. -Pablo Picasso

  11. #11
    Gibson F5L Gibson A5L
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Posts
    2,079
    Blog Entries
    1

    Default Re: I need some serious help...

    Well …. I can't say about Five Pounds of Possum as I don't know that song . The others on your list are indeed all in 4/4 time and the chop on the chuck as Big Sky Girl points out will work on all of the other titles. As you learn to handle a mandolin other syncopations and techniques will come into your playing. When you encounter your first waltz you will chop on the second and third beat of the quarter note pattern. One 2 3 One 2 3 and as you get into listening to mandolin players you will hear MANY other things to do. Keep in mind it is easy to over use any musical technique. Keeping the rhythm on time is job one. R/
    P.S. Check out Steve Kaufman's " 60 Tunes Every Parking Lot Picker Should Know" . While it is guitar based the melodies are kept simple and the rhythm tracks are on point. Also https://www.grasstrax.com/ is a good site for backing tracks when you want to work something out. But as a guitar player you may just make your own. R/
    I love hanging out with mandolin nerds . . . . . Thanks peeps ...

  12. The following members say thank you to UsuallyPickin for this post:


  13. #12
    Registered User Ky Slim's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2014
    Location
    Kentucky
    Posts
    382

    Default Re: I need some serious help...

    Definitely go to youtube and listen to 5-10 versions of each of those tunes. This will build familiarity. Good Luck!

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XZrZiDHLEC8

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yEIHYO2H2Ks

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gK0iMLvCfFM


    Also, join the song a week social group in the learn listen tab here on MC. There's a good chance that each of those tunes have been songs of the week.

  14. #13
    Registered User Froglips's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    Arizona
    Posts
    29

    Default Re: I need some serious help...

    Quote Originally Posted by Ky Slim View Post
    Definitely go to youtube and listen to 5-10 versions of each of those tunes. This will build familiarity. Good Luck!

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XZrZiDHLEC8

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yEIHYO2H2Ks

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gK0iMLvCfFM


    Also, join the song a week social group in the learn listen tab here on MC. There's a good chance that each of those tunes have been songs of the week.
    I just did that (Listen to the tunes 5-10 times to really hear them) this morning actually. I now have the closed chop chords down for 'The Old Home Place', and started singing along a little too. I just can not play it fast enough yet. I can keep up with one or two chops per chord change though.

    I did not know there was a 'Song a Week Social Group'. I will definitely check that out. Thx for that!


    wildpikr,
    Thanks again for the tips. I am in Phoenix, AZ. North part of town. Do not come out here now though. It waaaaaaay too hot! LOl!
    Frog...

    It's not how you pick your nose ... It's where you put the booger!

  15. #14
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Sep 2017
    Location
    Colorado
    Posts
    67

    Default Re: I need some serious help...

    Greetings, Frog, from a former Arizonan (Tucson) and fellow beginner. I highly recommend Pete Wernick’s series of three bluegrass jamming DVDs (or downloadables) from Homespun. The first one goes nice and slow, and they progress up to jam tempo by the third one (I’m not there yet). They cover many of the standard’s including Hot Corn Cold Corn and The Old Home Place, and a bunch of the others you mentioned. They’re a lot of fun to play along with! Good luck.

  16. #15
    Stop the chop!
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    europe
    Posts
    1,251
    Blog Entries
    1

    Default Re: I need some serious help...

    Quote Originally Posted by Froglips View Post
    I live in Arizona, and we have a thing called the Arizona Bluegrass Association. They just started hosting these jams every 2nd Thursday of every month.

    So... They gave me the 3 songs to learn for this coming Thursday, but two of them I cannot seem to figure out a good strum pattern for. I feel stupid because I can not pick up on the mando strum patterns from the recordings.

    Anyway, I was wondering if you guys could help me with this.

    The three songs are, Hot Corn Cold Corn, I'm on my way back to the old home (Bill Monroe), and The old home place (Dillards).

    I am pretty sure these are all public domain songs. So please do not flog the frog for asking for copyrighted material, because I am not intentionally doing so.

    Thank you in advance, everyone.

    Sincerely,

    Frog...
    Not that it really matters here but only Hot Corn, Cold Corn is PD. The Old Home Place was written by Mitch Jayne and Dean Webb.

  17. #16

    Default Re: I need some serious help...

    I was thinking I read once that chords can't be copyrighted anyway, that is, the chord names & chord progressions & basic plain generic reusable strumming patterns aren't protected by copyright. Thus the origin of the early "fake books" with chords only. It's my understanding that where people get in trouble, is with lyrics & melodies & actual arrangements of specific notes... not just someone posting chords & generic rhythmic info using those chords. If any of that's incorrect, please advise.

  18. #17
    Registered User sblock's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    Redwood City, CA
    Posts
    1,968

    Default Re: I need some serious help...

    Quote Originally Posted by JL277z View Post
    I was thinking I read once that chords can't be copyrighted anyway, that is, the chord names & chord progressions & basic plain generic reusable strumming patterns aren't protected by copyright. Thus the origin of the early "fake books" with chords only. It's my understanding that where people get in trouble, is with lyrics & melodies & actual arrangements of specific notes... not just someone posting chords & generic rhythmic info using those chords. If any of that's incorrect, please advise.
    Yes, chord progressions are not copyrighted. And we (at least most of us) are not the copyright police, anyway.

  19. The following members say thank you to sblock for this post:

    JL277z 

  20. #18

    Default Re: I need some serious help...

    The workshop on Thursday won't require you to be very fast. This is a beginner to intermediate workshop. You'll be fine. I'll be there as well! See you then!
    Eastman MD 515, Gibson F-5C, Eastman and Calton Cases! Keep playing, never give up!

  21. #19
    Registered User mbruno's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Location
    San Diego CA
    Posts
    296

    Default Re: I need some serious help...

    The only thing you can copyright is the melody of a song and lyrics. Chord progressions that support the melody cannot have copyright protection. A ton of Jazz / Bluegrass / Blues / Rock etc are 100% the same exact progression - often down to how the beats rest - but the melody and lyrics are different.

    Anyway, for the OP - Those are great tunes to get under your fingers as they form the base on many other tunes. If this is your first time at a jam, I would suggest that you bring a recording device too. That can help you practice and learn new tunes for next time. Since you'll often hear the same songs at jams, it'll help you get in good there

    Also, be nice and don't over step. Especially at regular jams, folks will get mad if you play out of turn. Follow the circle and when in doubt, play less until you know the group and/or the songs well enough to not have doubt.

  22. The following members say thank you to mbruno for this post:

    JL277z 

  23. #20
    Registered User Kevin Winn's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2016
    Location
    Portland, OR
    Posts
    228

    Default Re: I need some serious help...

    Quote Originally Posted by Froglips View Post
    Hey, Usuallypickin, or anyone?

    He also gave me all of the other songs for July, and the songs they worked on from the previous jams. They are, All the good times, I'll fly away, My homes across the blueridge mountains, Blue ridge cabin home, Mama don't allow, Katy Daley, Bury me beneath the willow, 5 pounds of possum, Hand me down my walkin cane, In the pines, Wreck of the old 97, and Your love is like a flower.

    Are all of these songs considered bluegrass standards, and do I play them basically the same as the others? On the 1st and 3rd, or the 2nd and 4th?

    Thanks again.

    Frog...
    If that is 'All The Good Times (Are Past And Gone)' then it's in triple meter. Instead of playing the chop on the 2 and 4, you play it on the 2 and 3. Boom Chuck Chuck.

    If you're unsure about strumming patterns, Baron Collins-Hill has a whole raft of technique videos at MandoLessons.com. Tons of lessons and play-along tracks for lots of standard fiddle tunes, as well.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •