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Thread: Ashokan Farewell Tabs anyone?

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    Registered User Froglips's Avatar
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    Default Ashokan Farewell Tabs anyone?

    I was messing around with the fiddle quite a few years back, and in a beginners book I had there was a song I heard that brought tears to my eyes. It was called 'Ashokan Farewell'. So I transcribed the tune so I could play it on guitar and mandolin.

    I have not picked up an instrument in quite a few years now, and recently I got me another mandolin, but I can not find that tune on paper anywhere anymore.

    Would any of you have a printable version of this tune in tabulature already?

    Thank you for your time, folks!

    Frog...
    Frog...

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  2. #2

    Default Re: Ashokan Farewell Tabs anyone?

    Quote Originally Posted by Froglips View Post
    I was messing around with the fiddle quite a few years back, and in a beginners book I had there was a song I heard that brought tears to my eyes. It was called 'Ashokan Farewell'. So I transcribed the tune so I could play it on guitar and mandolin.

    I have not picked up an instrument in quite a few years now, and recently I got me another mandolin, but I can not find that tune on paper anywhere anymore.

    Would any of you have a printable version of this tune in tabulature already?

    Thank you for your time, folks!

    Frog...
    search the tune at https://thesession.org/ then copy paste the abc text into mandolintab.net then you have it’s pdf

    -sorry I cant get you that song, but there are tens of thousands of other tunes!
    Maybe try a couple of barndances, they’re fun and addictive enough to keep you playing mando,
    good luck,

  3. #3

    Default Re: Ashokan Farewell Tabs anyone?

    there is a tab version here on the mandolin cafe tabs

  4. #4
    My Florida is scooped pheffernan's Avatar
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    Default Re: Ashokan Farewell Tabs anyone?

    Quote Originally Posted by ollaimh View Post
    there is a tab version here on the mandolin cafe tabs
    Here is the link: https://www.mandolincafe.com/tab/ashoken.txt
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    Default Re: Ashokan Farewell Tabs anyone?

    Are you all aware that by posting the tab here on the Cafe’, you are breaking the law? Many people make the mistake of thinking that “Ashokan Farewell” is a Civil War song because it was featured so prominently in Ken Burn’s PBS series, and therefore in public domain. It is not. It is a contemporary tune written in 1982 by Jay Ungar and Molly Mason. They wrote it as a tribute to the location where they ran a fiddle camp for many years. The story of how Ken Burns came to decide to use it in his Civil War series is on their web site, along with instruction on how to obtain a license. If Ashokan Farewell is reproduced in any form, the entity reproducing it MUST apply for a license from Jay and Molly, who still hold the copyright. I am pretty sure that was not done in this case because the instructions on the site clearly state that the reproduction MUST include all copyright information, including the international copyright symbol, Jay and Molly’s names, date of first publication, and the name of the publisher. The version on the Cafe’ site includes Jay’s name but none of the other information. If I am wrong, and this site has permission to use Ashokan Farewell, I invite the powers that be to correct me.

    I am sorry to be the naysayer here, but fair is fair. And this song is a particular sore spot for me. The number of people who think it’s public domain boggles my mind, and the degree to which its status as copyrighted material is abused is stupefying. But hey, we really like it. So that makes it ok, right? I feel sorry for Jay and Molly for having to fight so hard for so long to hold on to their intellectual property.
    Don

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    Default Re: Ashokan Farewell Tabs anyone?

    Certainly can't speak for the composer Jay Ungar, but this tune is becoming woven into the string band folk culture, especially on Jay's home ground in upstate NY, which I would assume he would be quite happy about.

    We hear it requested enough at jams, and or shows, not everyone knows it commonly and the form ( chord changes) is not all that basic, so it hasn't reached "Lonesome Fiddle Blues" status just yet, but I can see it finding its way there eventually.

    Legal or not it's pretty easy to find out there, and I would like to think Jay would encourage the playing of it regardless.
    "Mean Old Timer, He's got grey hair, Mean Old Timer he just don't care
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    Purveyor of Sunshine sgarrity's Avatar
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    Default Re: Ashokan Farewell Tabs anyone?

    There’s one in every crowd...

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    Default Re: Ashokan Farewell Tabs anyone?

    Interesting soapbox to get upon.........

    I'm all for songwriters getting their due, but nobody goes into writing folk songs thinking they are about to get rich. The big payday's are few are far between, the rest is just a nickel here and a nickel there -- literally. Getting on Ken Burns' Civil War soundtrack is a once in a lifetime event. Probably the only other similar windfall for "folk" songs in the last 50 years was Oh Brother, Where Art Thou -- which was a fluke, IMHO. Not a lot of income, otherwise....

    My point is, sure, if 20 people want the tabs for that song and it gets posted, you have "cheated" the songwriters out of "maybe" a dollar -- 50 cents per writer............so.......

    An old rockabilly artist I interviewed got to see some resurgence in his career late in life and made a few public appearances. When someone would ask for an autograph on an old record, he would charge $20 -- stating that he was "never paid" royalties back in the day...............most would gladly pay it as a gesture, but even then he was "over-correcting" by $19.97 per autograph, based on 50's royalty rates..........

    It's a tough call.........I've written a few songs that were recorded by semi-famous people. One artist, was a grammy winner and a gold and platinum selling artist -- unfortunately the record my song appeared on didn't sell that well, was on a small label, and came later in his career -- my payday.....$100......and he might have overpaid, in all fairness.......but I was happy to participate.

    Again, my point is that it takes A LOT of sales to generate a big income from songwriting UNLESS you are one of a fortunate handful who can write for Beyonce, Celine Dion, Elton John, etc........

    I knew some Nashville songwriters who were writing for Garth Brooks at the height of his fame. The thinking was if you write a hit song for a big artist, you make a nice income for the first year. If you write two hits, you get your name out there and get other people interested in what you do. If you are lucky enough to write FIVE hits, you are finally comfortable. If you can continue doing this for years and years, then you have a career as a songwriter.........in other words, you have better odds at the casino!

    One of my particular pet peeves is people thinking there is big money in songwriting......THERE IS....but not for the average songwriter, IMHO and experience.

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    Default Re: Ashokan Farewell Tabs anyone?

    You can get the notation from Mel Bay:
    https://www.melbay.com/Products/9505...-farewell.aspx

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    Default Re: Ashokan Farewell Tabs anyone?

    I would like to point out a few things in response to what has been said about my previous post.

    To Jeff- Money is not the issue. Intellectual property is the issue. I am a member of ASCAP, but I certainly have not made much money from my composition efforts. However, my work is mine. I get to decide who reproduces it. I have often given permission for people to reproduce my works for free, but they asked me first. They didn’t just do it. So by focusing on the money aspect, you miss my point. But if you do want to talk about money, think about how popular the song in question has become, and how many millions of times it’s been copied and performed without compensation or even license. A dollar here, a dollar there, it still adds up to millions in lost revenue I’d bet.

    To tmsweeney- the fact that it’s been “woven” into the string band folk culture is irrelevant. The law is the law. I play in an old time string band myself. We don’t have a single leader but rather several different people who each have a separate responsibility. Mine is selecting repertoire. We have had many requests for the music in question. I refuse to allow it, or anything else with Copyright issues. I politely explain to people why we can’t do it when they ask for it. And they do ask believe me. I think you assume too much when you assume Jay Ungar is happy about the situation. Have you spoken with him personally about it? I simply can’t believe he’s “happy” about the situation. If I had written a tune that popular, I wouldn’t be happy about it. If he’s so happy, why does he go into such detail on his web site explaining the procedure for obtaining a license?

    To sgarrity- Yes, there is one in every crowd. Someone who stands for what’s right. Even when Im in the minority. Honestly, I don’t understand why anyone would be in favor of unauthorized use of copyrighted material. I am still waiting for someone to explain to me why this isn’t wrong. The “arguments” so far have not convinced me.
    Don

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    Default Re: Ashokan Farewell Tabs anyone?

    I just went to Jay Ungar and Molly Mason’s website, and ordered a pdf and printed version of Ashokan Farewell. Feel good about supporting such a wonderful tune. They have a lot of great tunes for sale at an affordable price imo

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    Purveyor of Sunshine sgarrity's Avatar
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    Default Re: Ashokan Farewell Tabs anyone?

    I bet you're a riot at parties! You seriously think they've lost millions of dollars on that song? Ken Burns using that tune is probably one of the highlights of their musical career. By your thinking every bluegrass jam in the country is full of law breakers.

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    Default Re: Ashokan Farewell Tabs anyone?

    I would argue that posting the tabs on here for educational use is unlawful:
    107. Limitations on exclusive rights: Fair use40

    Notwithstanding the provisions of sections 106 and 106A, the fair use of a copyrighted work, including such use by reproduction in copies or phonorecords or by any other means specified by that section, for purposes such as criticism, comment, news reporting, teaching (including multiple copies for classroom use), scholarship, or research, is not an infringement of copyright. In determining whether the use made of a work in any particular case is a fair use the factors to be considered shall include—

    (1) the purpose and character of the use, including whether such use is of a commercial nature or is for nonprofit educational purposes;

    (2) the nature of the copyrighted work;

    (3) the amount and substantiality of the portion used in relation to the copyrighted work as a whole; and

    (4) the effect of the use upon the potential market for or value of the copyrighted work.

    The fact that a work is unpublished shall not itself bar a finding of fair use if such finding is made upon consideration of all the above factors.

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    Default Re: Ashokan Farewell Tabs anyone?

    In addition to being performers, Jay and Molly Ungar are in the music publishing business. They should get paid for their work. $2 in this case.

    and I’m sure they’ve lost significant monies through the unlicensed distribution of this tune.
    Play it like you mean it.

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    Default Re: Ashokan Farewell Tabs anyone?

    I'm a firm supporter of laws that protect intellectual property. In today's world, it's very easy to search for a song tab and just assume because it is posted somewhere that it is lawful and ethical to download and use.

    In the case of the song in question, I've seen it on several sites and thought nothing about it.

    Multidon, how do you make a decision on which songs to play? I know it's not as simple as entering the title in a dB and seeing a box marked Public Domain Y/N?

    I see this very often in our choir. Members will bring copies of music for a new song they want us play, and I politely point out the copyright stamp. Very often I get the "so what" look in return. To each their own, but usually I can go online and order a copy of the song for me to use and pay a small fee.
    Last edited by Austin Bob; Jun-05-2019 at 12:09pm.
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    Default Re: Ashokan Farewell Tabs anyone?

    Why yes Shaun, now that you mention it, I AM a riot at parties! Seldom do I go to a party where SOMEONE doesn’t say “Please Don, won’t you regale us all with your knowledge of copyright law?”. Keeps those invitations rolling in. And I think you might be right about all those lawbreakers in bluegrass jams. I don’t do bluegrass myself, but I’ve heard that it’s pretty common to play and sing “I’ll Fly Away.” Did you know that one is still under an active copyright? And it will be under copyright for another 10 years. Because it was originally published in 1932. That song has provided an income stream totaling hundreds of thousands of dollars per year for the children of the song’s writer, who now own the rights. And they are willing to sue violators. In 2000 they sued the Dixie Chicks and won. So all you folks who play “I’ll Fly Away” in jams are indeed breaking the law. And I’ll bet dollars to donuts that isn’t the only example.

    Bob, copyright laws are very complicated. And, they vary from country to country. But here in the USA, there is a simple rule of thumb. If the music’s date of first publication is pre-1923, you’re safe. Any copyrights that may have existed on music that old has expired. So that suits our band just fine. We are real old time string band, playing real old time music. Civil War era? No problem. Golden Age of hymn writing (late 1800’s), no problem. O’Carolan tunes, and most Irish Trad, no problem. And so forth. You get the idea. The older it is, the better. But, it’s important to remember that an arrangement may be copyrighted, even if the tune is public domain. I posted many dulcimer tab arrangements on the now defunct Everything Dulcimer web site. That site posted tabs with the express purpose of sharing, and I expected them to be used. I had the copyright in a technical sense but also gave tacit approval of free use by posting. You can also just simply ask the copyright holder for free use. I’ve never done that, but I have been asked. And of course, finally, if the writer of the song is unknown, no claims on its behalf can be made. Songs like that may be marked “traditional” or “anonymous”, or just “folk song”. I advise people to do their research, though. I have found some arrangements of songs so marked that were marked that way incorrectly. Internet searches make this very easy to do.

    I am retired from 30 years of teaching music, have been in my band for 10 years, and I am the director of music at my church. I have had to deal with issues like this more times than I can count. So I can claim to know a little bit on this subject. By the way, churches are some of the worst offenders. People think churches are exempt. They are not. One of the first things I did at my church when I assumed my position was purge the filing cabinets of photocopies. They filled several trash cans. I made it clear there would be no photocopies used as long as I had anything to say about it.
    Don

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    Default Re: Ashokan Farewell Tabs anyone?

    There is a difference between the Dixie Chicks making a profit singing 'I'll Fly Away', and some regular Joe singing it at the Saturday night Jam. There may be no legal distinction, but there is one of common sense.
    "I play BG so that's what I can talk intelligently about." A line I loved and pirated from Mandoplumb

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    Default Re: Ashokan Farewell Tabs anyone?

    Wow! I had no Idea this would stir up so much discussion.

    Ok. I feel the need to say a few things here for the record.

    1.) I already knew that this song was done by Mr Unger in the early 80's (I had to know who wrote this tune after hearing it).

    2.) I purchased a book that came with a CD that has this song on it.

    3.) After reading the reply pointing this out, I decided to dig through some more old boxes in the garage... And I found the book and CD last night. But I still can not find the tabs I tabed out for that song.

    Am I a thief for being lazy not wanting to take the time to tab this song out again? Asking you kind folks if you know someone else that had done it already, and could get a copy?

    *Edit*
    I have decided to go to the Ungers' website and pay for the tabs (They are in tab, right?). I would rather have an authentic copy produced by him anyway.*Edit*

    Frog...
    Frog...

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    Default Re: Ashokan Farewell Tabs anyone?

    I agree, Frog.....all this talk about breaking the law and being a thief puts a weird slant on things and takes the fun out of the "good clean fun" that music is supposed to be about, IMHO. Buncha silliness, if you ask me! I think back in 1966 my guitar teacher transcribing the Beatles into my music manuscript tablet, so I could learn the songs -- boy, what a dirty, rotten criminal he was.........thanks, Sam! (just kidding, BTW.) How about those big thick "music fake books" that they used to sell at guitar shops? Oh, brother........nobody ever heard of intellectual property back then.......

    Quote Originally Posted by multidon View Post
    To Jeff- Money is not the issue. Intellectual property is the issue. I am a member of ASCAP, but I certainly have not made much money from my composition efforts.
    Actually, money is always the issue. Otherwise, they would give it away! I, too, joined ASCAP years ago when our management was trying to get our songs into movies -- the difference -- instead of making pennies per copy, the licensing fees were negotiated by lawyers upfront starting at $50K per song -- THAT got me interested.........unfortunately, I never made it past that rung of the ladder....though, some of my friends did.

    Keep in mind, my "so-called" music career took place before the internet, iphones, youtube, apps, etc... Just as the "dot.com billionaires" sprung up from nowhere, I can see the potential for songwriting sales, where pennies might actually turn into dollars if you can get enough of them and COLLECT.....

    We recorded a song 35 years ago by an old lady who worked in the 50's performing and recording. After the record came out she would call every week wanting her "check!" I explained that since she was a BMI member and it was BMI's job to pay her and they paid twice a year, so she could look for her check in 6 months. Finally, I explained our last record only sold a thousand copies, so she wouldn't be due very much.......I could hear her pocket calculator clicking in the background @ 3.25 cents a copy -- "that's $32.50 you owe me!" Even though it was BMI's duty to pay her, I doubled it and sent her a check, because she was calling me, NOT BMI! A great old lady and may she RIP, but boy, songwriters can be annoying, IMHO! And, I'm saying that as a songwriter. I guess if it isn't the money, it must be a pride thing?

    I never worried about the pennies, it was the dollars that I was interested in.

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    Default Re: Ashokan Farewell Tabs anyone?

    Quote Originally Posted by FLATROCK HILL View Post
    There is a difference between the Dixie Chicks making a profit singing 'I'll Fly Away', and some regular Joe singing it at the Saturday night Jam. There may be no legal distinction, but there is one of common sense.
    if the venue has payed their BMI/ASCAP/SESAC dues it's legal.

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    Default Re: Ashokan Farewell Tabs anyone?

    Quote Originally Posted by multidon View Post
    And I think you might be right about all those lawbreakers in bluegrass jams. I don’t do bluegrass myself, but I’ve heard that it’s pretty common to play and sing “I’ll Fly Away.” Did you know that one is still under an active copyright? And it will be under copyright for another 10 years. Because it was originally published in 1932...So all you folks who play “I’ll Fly Away” in jams are indeed breaking the law.
    Honest question, here. I agree with your stance that people who want Ashokan Farewell should purchase a licensed version (I've done that myself). But is it really true that people playing among themselves in a jam for their own enjoyment are breaking the law? What if I play it alone in my bedroom, with the windows shut tight? I mean, Jay Ungar teaches Ashokan Farewell on his wonderful Homespun video (which I've also legally purchased). Is he really teaching people how to play it, but expecting that they won't play it unless they pay him a royalty each time?

  31. #22

    Default Re: Ashokan Farewell Tabs anyone?

    Quote Originally Posted by Bad Monkey View Post
    if the venue has payed their BMI/ASCAP/SESAC dues it's legal.
    And if the Saturday night Jam "venue" is the bass player's front porch, must those dues still be paid to make it legal?
    Sorry. If logic and common sense don't rule the day, another copyrighted song will need to be added to the evening's festivities.
    'Here's a Quarter Call Someone Who Cares'.
    "I play BG so that's what I can talk intelligently about." A line I loved and pirated from Mandoplumb

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    Default Re: Ashokan Farewell Tabs anyone?

    Quote Originally Posted by FLATROCK HILL View Post
    And if the Saturday night Jam "venue" is the bass player's front porch, must those dues still be paid to make it legal?
    Sorry. If logic and common sense don't rule the day, another copyrighted song will need to be added to the evening's festivities.
    'Here's a Quarter Call Someone Who Cares'.
    copyright only applies to performance for profit. Either for the benefit of the venue's or the performer's wallet. A front porch for fun doesn't ping the meter.

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    Default Re: Ashokan Farewell Tabs anyone?

    Honest question, honest answer. There are a lot of nuances when you deal with copyrights. Playing by yourself in your bedroom is fine, of course. You can even open the doors and windows if you want. Now, as for the jam session. Answer is, it depends. Is there an audience? If you are participating in a private jam session, say on someone’s deck, you can certainly play it. Just make sure you’re playing by ear, if you pass out copies of it you’re in violation. But if your jam session is in a bar or restaurant, and there are people listening and not participating, that could be construed as an audience. Say the owner hosts the jam for the purpose of increasing business, because he knows it will draw people in to listen. He is getting an unfair benefit. Unless he has payed his venue license fees. Then he’s ok and so is the group. As long as they are playing from original music or by ear.

    Can you see a pattern here? Of course, common sense quoted by someone earlier tells us if we buy a piece of music, we can play it for our own enjoyment. Groups of people can do that too. The problem comes when we reproduce it or perform it. Let’s deal with performance first. If you perform a copyrighted piece for an audience, you need a license. You say it’s a free concert? Doesn’t matter. Church? School? Still doesn’t matter. The fact is that copyright law does NOT, repeat NOT, apply just to performance for profit. Copyright holder has exclusive say over how his music is presented to the public, because they have a vested interest in how their property is perceived. Now, often a performing license is included when you buy music. For example, when a high school band director buys a piece for his band to perform in their concerts, the performing license is usually included. But not a recording license. Recording is a separate issue, that needs a different license. Ok, now let’s deal with reproduction. If you make a photocopy for your buddy so he doesn’t have to buy it, that’s a violation. If you reproduce a song in any form for distribution without the copyright owner’s permission, that’s a violation. It doesn’t matter whether it’s notation, tab, Morse code, or Klingon.

    So, if you bought the music, play your pea pickin’ heart out. Teach your buddies by ear, and jam away. But don’t copy it, re-arrange it for distribution, distribute it, record it for distribution, or perform it for an audience unless your sure the correct permissions have been received. That way, you can count yourself a good citizen of the world of music, and the folks who write the stuff we play can afford to keep on writing. Don, out.

    P.S. to Flatrock Hill. The Dixie Chicks didn’t get into trouble because they performed it for an audience. Of course the venue would have paid the fees. They pretty much all do. The reason they got in trouble is because they RECORDED it. For distribution, of course.
    Don

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    Default Re: Ashokan Farewell Tabs anyone?

    Gosh, guys. All he wanted to do was play a song.
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