Need help Identifying

[jim1966]

Need help identifying please. Serial Number and headstock script look odd to me for a gibson.

[MikeEdgerton]

It's not a Gibson product unless they totally forgot how to carve a scroll the year it was made.

[rcc56]

It's not a Gibson product unless they totally forgot how to carve a scroll the year it was made.

They forgot how to do a lot of things, especially after WWII, and more especially during the '60's and '70's.

In my experience, '60's Gibson mandolins and guitars look very different than earlier models, and '70's instruments don't look like Gibsons at all.

F-5's were redesigned and the tooling changed several times: at least once in the '30's, again when they were reintroduced in 1949, again in the early '50's, once more around 1970, etc.

This mandolin may very well have come out of the Kalamazoo plant. More pictures, or better, an in-hand inspection would be necessary to verify its origin with more certainty.

I would be interested if know if this instrument has a solid back and kerfed tone bars.

If one looks carefully, the imprint of Kluson tuners can be seen at the edges of the baseplates of the current replacement tuners. A block letter logo was standard on post-war F-5's until approximately 1970. A picture of a mid 50's F-5 with a 2 piece flowerpot inlay with separate base similar to the inlay on this one can be seen on page 90 of Gruhn and Carter's "Acoustic Guitars and Other Fretted Instruments" book.

The A-##### serial number system was used intermittently between 1947 and 1961, mostly on fancier Gibson models. A32652 would correspond with the year 1960.

[rcc56]

Here's a link to a '61 F-5: http://www.guitarandbanjo.com/invent...andolins/f-5-0

Note the similarities in the logo, peghead inlay, and peghead scroll cuts.
The body scroll is quite different, though.

[mrmando]

A closeup of the scroll would help, with the strap removed. Photos of the front and back of the body would help too. Is there a label inside?

The headstock actually doesn't look bad. Someone might have put a real Gibson neck on a non-Gibson body.

[MikeEdgerton]

They forgot how to do a lot of things, especially after WWII, and more especially during the '60's and '70's....

As bad as they got I never saw a scroll button like that one. I don't think it's a Gibson.

[rcc56]

The thing that bothers me when I see the origin of these 60's and 70's patterned block logo mandolins debated is that I cannot think of any Gibson copyist who made replicas in this style. The handful of makers who were building F-5 copies during the '70's and '80's [Tom Morgan, Bob Givens, Randy Wood, et al] were all producing instruments based on older patterns. By the '90's, everybody was building on 1920's patterns, and usually signing their names.

I suppose there might have been some Asian forgeries made, but the last 3 I've seen debated all look too old to fit the bill for that, and also lack the characteristics of the recent rash of forged guitars that I've seen.

I have seen recent Asian flat-top guitar forgeries that actually look better than some of the real mid 70's Kalamazoo made guitars. Sad.

[Jeff Mando]

I don't think it's a Gibson.

It might sound better than a Gibson!

Actually, I think it is a Gibson, just not an exciting one......

Which is probably the best argument for it being real -- who would copy an un-exciting era mandolin and why? After all, the originals don't go for that much, so money wouldn't be the motivator....how much are they asking for it?

Case is right for early 60's, pickguard is right, truss rod cover is right, peghead overlay looks right, tuners are changed, but originally had gold Klusons which would be right (and an odd thing to fake -- the footprint of the Klusons), bridge is wrong, not sure about the tailpiece, it is hard to see, it is gold-plated, but the lettering (if any) can't be read -- at least in these pictures, neck/inlays look right, so.............but, for example, who would build a copy (of this era), then buy an actual case and pickguard? -- wouldn't make sense, would it? Seems like a copy would have a repro guard and a generic type case. OTOH, if it were real -- it would have those parts already......not to mention the Kluson footprint -- that pretty much nails it for me....

Would be nice to see a closeup of the tailpiece cover -- that might shine some more light.

I don't personally put a lot of value on this era Gibson anyway, mostly due to lack of demand from buyers. Like I say, not an exciting era, IMHO. When I worked at a guitar shop we sold a lot of this era mandolins to people who were guitar players and were buying the "Gibson" name, more than the sound. Not to say, once in a while there might be a good sounding one. If it is cheap, I'd play one. If it is full retail, I'll pass -- there are better choices, IMHO.

I could be wrong, just doing a little armchair detective work........

[William Smith]

Looks like the real do to me from about 1960? The scroll is rough though! I'd like to see some close ups-label, back .SCROLL, peg head.

[MikeEdgerton]

Every example from the 50's and 60's and 70's I've found has a decent scroll but heck, I could be wrong. I don't think Gibson ever sold that case and I honestly am not going to says it's real by judging the tailpiece cover. There really is only one member here that can identify this for certain and he hasn't weighed in.

[William Smith]

You can also see the imprint of the Kluson tuners that were on that Gibson used during that period? I'd still like some back pix? See if the finish matches up with the body/neck? The neck sure looks period, the body doesn't look right! So it may be a real Gibson neck with someone's body-my 58 F-5 body doesn't look like that, scroll and proportions, mine is way better quality!

[f5loar]

typical 1960 to 1961 F5. Tuners replaced. The case shouldn't be original as the orange interior didn't show up until 1964

[MikeEdgerton]

Thanks Tom. I'd like to share Tom's other observations on this as well as it does help future members:

All looks right for a 1960 to 1961. Usually they had a paper label with same serial no. on it. The PG is right in that it does not have the top point screw going into the top which started in 1964. The case may not or should not be original as the orange interior came out in 1964. Tuners replaced.

I'm pretty sure I've never seen the pickguard screw detail before.