How much does a Northfield actually cost to make?

[Kevin Winn]

I was wondering about this yesterday, and I was wondering if they are really worth the money they ask for them compared to Kentucky and Eastman and Mando Mo, etc.

Yes.

[lukmanohnz]

One can also look to Taylor, Martin and other domestic manufacturers and compare the materials and cosmetic details on, for example, a D-18 and an OM-45 De Luxe Authentic 1930, which is 3000% more expensive than the D-18. I kinda doubt that the cost of the build on the OM-45 is 30x the cost of build on the D-18. But someone's gonna buy that OM-45. (Actually, eleven people are going to buy that model. Otherwise Martin wouldn't bother doing the 11-run build of them.) My mandolin and guitar budget doesn't reach into the higher end models of Northfield or Martin. But I own instruments from each of them, and am glad those great companies make such great instruments - at a range of prices that do overlap with my budget.

[Br1ck]

Just wait a year or two and get that gen 4 Northfield for a mere $5k.But all it really comes down to is how much money do you have and how much you want to part with for a particular mandolin.

I ran into an acquaintance, who had just inherited multimillions of dollars, in a guitar shop one day. He was buying a Gibson jazz guitar, and while they were finding the case, he bought a J 200, and a Southern jumbo, with no more thought than I give to buying socks. When I ran into him a year later, he had bought fifty more and was storing them in his father's 3 million dollar house, which was otherwise empty. So there are always people to buy the big buck goodies. He also had a cocaine addiction to go with his money. I do feel that someone who scrimps to buy something special gets more pleasure from it, but that could just be my self delusion talking.

You could just as easily fall for a $4000 instrument over an $8000 one, so playing a bunch is always a good choice. It's a pretty safe bet neither will make you play like Chris Thiele or Mike Marshall, or that 14 year old you haven't heard of yet. Life's a bitch.

[Eric Hanson]

[Kevin Winn]

One can also look to Taylor, Martin and other domestic manufacturers and compare the materials and cosmetic details on, for example, a D-18 and an OM-45 De Luxe Authentic 1930, which is 3000% more expensive than the D-18. I kinda doubt that the cost of the build on the OM-45 is 30x the cost of build on the D-18. But someone's gonna buy that OM-45. (Actually, eleven people are going to buy that model. Otherwise Martin wouldn't bother doing the 11-run build of them.) My mandolin and guitar budget doesn't reach into the higher end models of Northfield or Martin. But I own instruments from each of them, and am glad those great companies make such great instruments - at a range of prices that do overlap with my budget.

There's a reason it's called "disposable income".....

[DHopkins]

There's a reason it's called "disposable income".....

You make a good point.

[MikeEdgerton]

Does anybody know how much it costs to make a Gilchrist? A Gibson? A Collings? You're buying not only the hardware and the wood but the knowledge and abilities of the luthier's building them as well as your faith in the company to be there if it needs repairs. If you can buy all that cheaper, have at it. The market is the only arbiter of the true value of a product.

[allenhopkins]

What a product is "worth" is what the market will pay for it. How much did it cost to for Stradivarii to build a violin, or for Monet to paint a landscape? Two Mustangs came off the Ford assembly line in 1968, side by side, production costs nearly equal. One got driven by Steve McQueen in Bullitt, the other got sold to George Nobody, probably got junked in 1985, its scrap metal value now about $300. The "Bullitt Mustang" will supposedly be auctioned for $3-5 million.

Production costs are not the determinators of market value. They're related to the extent that products need to be sold at a profit, so production costs in excess of market price, mean that the product isn't long for the marketplace. If Northfield mandolins continue to sell at their current market prices, whether it costs $5 or $5K to make them is only relevant to those who wish they were cheaper.

[Mandobar]

Just an FYI, the identical Bullitt car was found and was being restored last I heard

http://fordauthority.com/2018/07/sec...g-restoration/

So, not quite $300

Pricing on discretionary items can be approached different ways. In manufacturing some companies will set a price based on their projected profit margin. Others will test the market and see what they can get. It's not an exact science, but there is somewhat of a "science" to it.

[Br1ck]

If Collings could not sell all the mandolins they make, they wouldn't be taking a price increase.

I'm roughly estimating the finest wood you can buy accounts for maybe $400. Hardware maybe another $400. Expertise to have me build you an F 5? Maybe $5. Expertise to have Tom Ellis make you one? Quite a bit more.

Expense to have a retailer buy and carry the inventory for an indeterminate time is a big chunk too, say 30%. So you can see where a builder selling direct to you probably makes more per unit if that builder is in demand. I don't think any of them make any of the richest people lists. It was an eye opener just to build one, and I started with CNC parts.

[ccravens]

I'm just not sure why the OP would ask the question in the first place. What difference does it make?

If you purchased a $5K Northfield because of all the things you liked about it, would it make a difference if you found out that it only cost $1K to build? Would you want to send it back then? Would knowing that fact all of a sudden make it not worth having, or make it look, sound and play any different?

I guess the reason for the question still eludes me..

[Glassweb]

I'm just not sure why the OP would ask the question in the first place. What difference does it make?

If you purchased a $5K Northfield because of all the things you liked about it, would it make a difference if you found out that it only cost $1K to build? Would you want to send it back then? Would knowing that fact all of a sudden make it not worth having, or make it look, sound and play any different?


I guess the reason for the question still eludes me..

how much did the pint of IPA that i drank yesterday cost to make? who cares?!? i'm sure it cost way less to make than the seven bucks (including tip to the bartender) i spent to enjoy it...

[J-45er]

I'm just not sure why the OP would ask the question in the first place. What difference does it make?

Well - if theses things are made in China, will they (are they) now subject to the new tariffs? Do the manufacturers and retailers have a cost structure that can absorb the tariffs without raising prices?

Cost accounting is a rather complex subject and the actual cost to make a particular product is typically a very closely held company secret. There can be educated guesses based on wholesale and retail prices, but it is only a guess.

[Mandolin Cafe]

Anyone wishing for clarity would benefit from reviewing the feature interview we did with Adrian last year about the three new Michigan manufactured models and then review their web site for an even more complete story. Read the comments from that interview. Very insightful. There is not another mandolin company with this kind of business model.

That and some of you may take note that two individuals in the Qingdao, China site are listed as Northfield's "Founders" along with Adrian Bagale.

[dang]

...
That and some of you may take note that two individuals in the Qingdao, China site are listed as Northfield's "Founders" along with Adrian Bagale.

I met both of those guys at the mandolin summit last year, Dino and Kosuke are very nice. I was able to talk mandolins with them in broken english. It reminded me of speaking science with someone from china when I was a grad student. I was able to piece together how they are doing some very complicated tasks, and how it differed from what I understand of traditional mandolin construction.

I was impressed enough to buy an octave mandolin and am still thinking they may have the price point to finally get me into an F style. And they seem to be maintaining a very high quality product. The fit and finish on my octave mandolin are not quite up to the Collings mandos that I have, but every mando I played of theirs compared well sound wise.

When I walked away from touring their Marshall shop I had the feeling Michigan is the test lab, China is the production facility. Something like the kinks get worked out in Michigan and all of that is very carefully explained - and exactly why you need it - at the production facility, so quality control is very high.

These were my impressions, not necessarily 100% factually correct, but I wanted to share them because to me these are all just regular people trying to make a living whether it’s here or in China. Quality is quality - make up your own mind. If you don’t like the sound then don’t buy it.

[Jeff Mando]

A couple thoughts.

The asking of the question "might" be centered around "what does X amount of money get me, mandolin-wise?" vs what that amount buys "otherwise"..........a mandolin made by Gibson, for example. Are we all in agreement that the $7500 Northfield blows away a $7500 Gibson, or not? To me, that would be the first question that needs answering...

The implied question is "if these are partially built in China, with woods grown and selected in the USA, then shipped back and finished and setup in Michigan (gets confusing, doesn't it?), then what does the "savings" in labor cost get me in terms of a better mandolin?" If I can read between the lines......

Going back 50 years, as a photographer, nobody complained that a Hasselblad was made in Sweden and not the USA -- it was never a question. It was assumed that "they" could make it better than we could. Same with Leica cameras being made in Germany, although there was some controversy when certain models were first being made in Canada, but overall those cameras are also well-liked. So, it seems to be a quality thing that certain companies like Northfield are trying to change and it seems like they are doing a good job at it.

[Jeff Mando]

I wanted to add, and many older players will remember the first ads for Yairi guitars by Alvarez. Trying to market a "higher-quality" Japan made guitar to loyal Martin and Gibson acoustic customers. Stressing that Mr. Yairi had spent his life making instruments, had a reputation for quality, etc., etc., etc......basically really great marketing and salesmanship. And it worked, they sold a bunch, the guitars were good and people liked them.

[Narayan Kersak]

A couple thoughts.

The asking of the question "might" be centered around "what does X amount of money get me, mandolin-wise?" vs what that amount buys "otherwise"..........a mandolin made by Gibson, for example. Are we all in agreement that the $7500 Northfield blows away a $7500 Gibson, or not? To me, that would be the first question that needs answering...

The implied question is "if these are partially built in China, with woods grown and selected in the USA, then shipped back and finished and setup in Michigan (gets confusing, doesn't it?), then what does the "savings" in labor cost get me in terms of a better mandolin?" If I can read between the lines......

Going back 50 years, as a photographer, nobody complained that a Hasselblad was made in Sweden and not the USA -- it was never a question. It was assumed that "they" could make it better than we could. Same with Leica cameras being made in Germany, although there was some controversy when certain models were first being made in Canada, but overall those cameras are also well-liked. So, it seems to be a quality thing that certain companies like Northfield are trying to change and it seems like they are doing a good job at it.

Yes.

[lukmanohnz]

Anyone wishing for clarity would benefit from reviewing the feature interview we did with Adrian last year about the three new Michigan manufactured models and then review their web site for an even more complete story. Read the comments from that interview. Very insightful. There is not another mandolin company with this kind of business model.

That and some of you may take note that two individuals in the Qingdao, China site are listed as Northfield's "Founders" along with Adrian Bagale.

When I bought my Model M direct from Northfield I called and spoke at length with Adrian about the instrument, my playing style and the attributes I was looking for to resolve shortcomings in the instrument I was playing at the time. Adrian was attentive to my concerns and extended their typical 48 hour evaluation period to give me plenty of time to decide after I received the instrument. Not sure what value to place on that kind of customer service....

[Old Growth]

.02....i have enjoyed each and every one of the Northfields I have ever had an opportunity to play. Relative to other instruments in the $7500 price range I would guess that you are getting a lifetime instrument that will stack up against the very best out there. I know I would love to see, play, own one.

[Mandobar]

I wanted to add, and many older players will remember the first ads for Yairi guitars by Alvarez. Trying to market a "higher-quality" Japan made guitar to loyal Martin and Gibson acoustic customers. Stressing that Mr. Yairi had spent his life making instruments, had a reputation for quality, etc., etc., etc......basically really great marketing and salesmanship. And it worked, they sold a bunch, the guitars were good and people liked them.

Yes, but timing was everything. At the time Yairi emerged both Martin and Gibson were struggling with quality control issues. Yairi basically swooped in and caught the attention of buyers who were frustrated with what was available at the time.

[Aaron Bohnen]

I wanted to add, and many older players will remember the first ads for Yairi guitars by Alvarez. Trying to market a "higher-quality" Japan made guitar to loyal Martin and Gibson acoustic customers. Stressing that Mr. Yairi had spent his life making instruments, had a reputation for quality, etc., etc., etc......basically really great marketing and salesmanship. And it worked, they sold a bunch, the guitars were good and people liked them.

Yes they did. A Yairi can be an exceptional guitar. I found a DY-84 a few years back. I had known they were good but never had one in hand. Picking it up, holding it, playing it made it immediately obvious that Kazuo Yairi was a serious master builder. Wow - what a guitar. Like many here I've had a few good Martins, Gibsons and Guilds along the way. Each is differently flavoured. So is the Yairi, and every bit their equal. In fact it's my favorite guitar to play (don't tell the other ones!) - it is beautiful in hand and sounds great.

Here's a quick clip of the same model: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=925n6RAnX14

Using the Yairi guitars as a case in point, it seems to me that Northfield mandolins might be a great evolution of that same idea. Under that logic I'd be thrilled to have a Northfield!

Enjoy!

A.

[Mandoplumb]

If it cost $5 or $5000 what difference does it make. When I buy a car ( usually used) or a TV or a mandolin, I don't care what the seller has invested in it. I decide what it is worth to me and offer that, the seller can make $1 or $10000 that's up to him and the market. Too many buyers try to find the sellers cost and decide how much profit he should make, then get upset if he won't sell for their price. It is not the buyers place to set the profit margin for the seller. Although some want to change it this is still a free enterprise, capitalistic economy. (at least it's supposed to be)

[Austin Bob]

Well, since time is money, I think this has already been covered:

Does anybody really know what time it is (I don't)
Does anybody really care (care about time)
If so I can't imagine why (no, no)
We've all got time enough to cry

[Aaron Woods]

I bought the used Artist F-5 from Carters - “Patsy” last week and I have the following thoughts:

The fit and finish is 10/10. Every binding joint and detail is simply perfect.

Apparently their typical artist has no inlay but all feature the pick guard.

The nut action was lower than I want but that is setup, not a build issue.

After playing all the mandolins under $25k at Carters I can’t say Patsy sounded better but she sounded great and right in the mix with the best of them. I found all the new instruments sounded the same, tight and pinched. Patsy also sounds tight but I’m confident that with some good pick whoopin’ she will be fantastic in 6 months. Plus I’m striking up some straight up medium gage strings this weekend, she’s excited...

I agree with a previous post that noted they are making great f model instruments available at an accessible price point.

I also agree with Mr. MandolinCafe that this is not another attempt to pass off low cost offshore instruments as quality. They have done their homework and created a great instrument.

If Mikey likes it - I like it.