Not all Collings hold their value

[jdmeyers77]

Slightly different perspective from a long-time MT2 fan. I've probably owned 5-6 MT2s -- all purchased minty used through the Cafe -- over the years. Then, MAS would strike, I'd sell and try something else for a while. But I always missed the MT2 after a while -- as it tone-wise and aesthetically pushes all the right buttons for me. Usually I'd lose $200-$300 in the deals, but I figured that was the cost of getting to play a cool "new" mando for a year or so.

Then, Collings introduced its vintage case and the cremona burst. I realized that buying new would assure I'd never recoup anything close to original price, but I didn't care. I contacted a Collings dealer I have always respected when I saw on their website a beautiful, quilted MT2 in cremona with the new Collings case. I traded in my MT2 and obviously accepted slightly less than it may have fetched selling on the Cafe in order to snag this particular new instrument. The shop was terrific to work with all the way through and very transparent.

That was almost a year ago, and now, finally, I know that I've reached the "top of the mountain" in terms of pride of ownership in calling this cremona MT2 my last ever sample of this wonderful mandolin!

It's my first ever brand new MT2, and the case alone (an $800 value) -- every time I admire its design and craftsmanship -- is inspiring to me to "earn" this fine instrument by becoming a better player! (IMHO, Bill's last great innovation was his cases -- and they are truly a testament to his vision and memory as a true artist who cared deeply about quality and beauty. If you've ever had one in your hands, you know what I'm talking about!)

So if you are in a space as I was, and really, really know that that the new mando you are buying will be with you a long, long time, then the depreciation issue becomes a moot point. I felt great pride in filling out the Warranty Card and receiving back from Collings a personalized "thank you" letter for the purchase. My MT2 quest is over.

[Br1ck]

Great MT2 story, and maybe the most valid reason to buy new I've heard yet. At that time you were sure of your needs, had experimented and come back to the same model time and again. You ended up with the finish you wanted and will likely not sell. Prorate and maybe your cost will be a buck per day.

[J.Albert]

illinoisfiddler wrote:
"If you bought new from a dealer, you can almost never get full value as selling used there are no guarantees, returns, warranty, etc. that a dealer may offer. I usually use the 50% rule. If you bought it new, figure you will get about 50% of your price on the used market..."

Can you make your rule apply to used Ellis F models ??

[Bill McCall]

......
I paid a little over $6000 for it.
I am lucky a half year later to get $4500 for it.
So, anyone who thinks that one can buy these new and later turn it around for anywhere close to what they paid for it, should beware.
.....

Interesting, I don't know anyone who thinks they can sell a 'newish' instrument for >75% of retail. Why buy 'almost new' without the benefit of a warranty?

Many used instruments are sold with little depreciation, assuming the condition is relatively the same. Never the case for the new to used equation.

On the other hand, that new Martin I bought 45 years ago is priced higher now, but with inflation I'll bet it's adjusted price has declined. Doesn't matter if you aren't in it to sell it;

[ABmando]

Well - the reason to buy almost new, and in new condition, with 25% off, is to save 25%! $1500 on a $6000 instrument is a lot of money to save. How much is the warranty worth? $2000? more? Any help is appreciated.

Interesting, I don't know anyone who thinks they can sell a 'newish' instrument for >75% of retail. Why buy 'almost new' without the benefit of a warranty?

Many used instruments are sold with little depreciation, assuming the condition is relatively the same. Never the case for the new to used equation.

On the other hand, that new Martin I bought 45 years ago is priced higher now, but with inflation I'll bet it's adjusted price has declined. Doesn't matter if you aren't in it to sell it;

[rcc56]

Well - the reason to buy almost new, and in new condition, with 25% off, is to save 25%! $1500 on a $6000 instrument is a lot of money to save. How much is the warranty worth? $2000? more? Any help is appreciated.

Depends on the warranty and the willingness of the manufacturer to back it up.
Getting approved warranty work from certain well known manufacturers can be very difficult.
As a repairman, I have had experience with customers who have failed to get factory defects covered by a manufacturer.

I have, however, never heard of any complaints about Collings. I'll also mention that I don't think I have heard of a Collings that needed warranty work. They are pretty conscientious about what they make, possibly more conscientious than any other manufacturer of their size or larger.

[Josh Levine]

Depends on the warranty and the willingness of the manufacturer to back it up.
Getting approved warranty work from certain well known manufacturers can be very difficult.
As a repairman, I have had experience with customers who have failed to get factory defects covered by a manufacturer.

I have, however, never heard of any complaints about Collings. I'll also mention that I don't think I have heard of a Collings that needed warranty work. They are pretty conscientious about what they make, possibly more conscientious than any other manufacturer of their size or larger.

Collings is amazing with warranty work. I bought a used MT2 that had some they refinished under warranty because there was some bubbling in the lacquer even though I wasn't the original purchaser. No questions asked.

[Baron Collins-Hill]

I had similarly excellent experiences with Collings customer service. It doesn't get any better!

Thanks,
Baron

[luthier88]

The fact that there is a MSRP and a street price proves my point. The MSRP is the manufacturers "sole right" to set the price The street price is where the consumer set the price. Which one is the real selling price? If the manufacturer won't move from the MSRP, and the consumer won't pay it there is no sale. Who really sets the price?

I wasn't going to comment on this thread until I saw your comment.

I won't say who I was working for, but it was a major Acoustic Retailer. A customer called in asking about a Collings Guitar, a custom order. If they paid in advance and didn't bug us, could we cut them a deal? He told me that the best deal that he could find was 10% off MSRP. I said that we could, thinking that a guitar all paid up front was worth a decent discount. The next day I was called in for a chat with the owners. Bill Collings had called, and they were informed of what I had agreed to, which was a discount of greater than 10% off "MSRP". I was told that Bill was irate and upset and told them that if they wanted to continue selling his products, that a 10% discount was the most that they were allowed to offer. I was new and didn't know better. I have a Collings Guitar. I had met Bill years earlier. When I re-met him I told him the story and he said that I wasn't the only one that he had to shock back to toe the line.

So, not really. In this case, Bill set the price and if you wanted to sell his products, you sold at his prices. I think that Collings Mandolins will "hold their value" in the long run, but if you purchase a new one and want to flip it the next year, you'll take a loss.

[luthier88]

This is the reason I don't buy a new vehicle anymore ! I don't like to drive it off the dealer parking lot and instantly lose ten grand ! There are exceptions in cars depending on how long you keep it and your age and the same with musical instruments. I paid twelve thousand for a new Peresson violin back in the 1980's. They now sell for around fifty thousand and my daughter has it. I have bought three and soon a fourth new mandolin and I don't regret these purchases as all mandolins will be distributed to my musically inclined daughters/grandchildren when I'm through with them.So, it just depends !

Yes, but with Peresson there was a time when you couldn't sell them for what you had paid for them. There were issues with pre-carved plates and being thinned out a bit much in certain areas, primarily the tops around the edged and under the fingerboard. For years folks would come into violin shops that I worked at asking if we would help them with their Peresson violin. He has been "rehabiltated" in the trade, but 20 years ago you couldn't give them away.

[Br1ck]

Another issue, especially with brands that have marketing departments, is the advertising the new and improve mandolin. All of a sudden, folks are thinking, do I want the old neck joint, or that new dovetail? Or maybe someone will have to give away that old inferior mandolin.

Weber dovetail, Northfield generation 37, even smaller builders striving to improve continually. All this has an effect on value. Even Kentucky moves a factory and thousands of instruments are in danger of being thought as inferior. Let's not mention Taylor guitars....

[Elb2000]

My recent experience with Collings customer service has been outstanding.

[Jeff Mando]

Another issue, especially with brands that have marketing departments, is the advertising the new and improve mandolin. All of a sudden, folks are thinking, do I want the old neck joint, or that new dovetail? Or maybe someone will have to give away that old inferior mandolin.

Weber dovetail, Northfield generation 37, even smaller builders striving to improve continually. All this has an effect on value. Even Kentucky moves a factory and thousands of instruments are in danger of being thought as inferior. Let's not mention Taylor guitars....

I blame internet forums and people with too much time on their hands for creating some of these opinions. If version 2 is better than version 1 -- that's called marketing. If version 1 outperforms version 2, then you have created a collectors item and people will seek out the earlier one. Part of it is normal curiosity and pride of ownership -- sure, we want our version to be the best, don't we?

Long before the internet, Gibson stopped making Les Paul guitars in 1960 and "reissued" them in 1968. Some of the 1968 guitars were "different" than the 1969 guitars, so the rumor began that some of the early ones were actually "leftover" 50's guitars that Gibson had laying around. That rumor persists to this day. Is it true? I don't know, but we have been "marketing" magic in the instrument world for a long time, IMHO.

[Br1ck]

So true. Guilty as charged regarding too much time on my hands. But we face an extraordinary situation, because any moderately sized town will have three or four car dealers to compare to each other, but mandolins? We have to wade through personal opinions, biased by pride of ownership, guilty, availability in stores, somewhat guilty, advertisement and endorsers, susceptible, and instruments owned by friends, a very few.

Then you have the net where every possible maker is out there and available. But I wouldn't want to go back to the model T days of buying only a black car. So you digest the info and pick your poison. Still, how many of us would be just as well off buying that Weber someone across town has. Go play it, like it, buy it, then play it without guys like me touting their Silverangels on the Cafe.

And worst of all, the scroll...........uping the financial angst to a new level......oh, the scroll......

[Russ Jordan]

I guess the OP can be thankful he didn't buy this one when new:

https://www.mandolincafe.com/ads/138358#138358

[Jeff Mando]

And worst of all, the scroll...........uping the financial angst to a new level......oh, the scroll......

Well, style always costs more...........and do you want to play it or look at it? You know, alligator loafers vs work boots, long hair vs short, push mower vs lawn tractor, etc......

The worst is scroll envy and thinking what it must be like to have a place to attach your strap

[ABmando]

I guess the OP can be thankful he didn't buy this one when new:

https://www.mandolincafe.com/ads/138358#138358

[Dave Sheets]

So, a bit of an experiment coming up here, as Collings prices on new instruments are going up. The OP may well see the used value on his instrument rise as well.

[fatt-dad]

To the OP: I love your MT-2V!

Regarding buy and resell (i.e., whether new or used), it's a matter of making profit or paying tuition. I've learned a lot!

I've also bought new instruments. I think I've sold one of them; however. I had a HD-28V (Martin guitar), but learned I don't like dreadnaughts. So, I sold it and bought the Norman Blake 000-28 (new) and the OM-28 authentic.

I had two mandolins made.

I had the opportunity to buy mandolins that I hated! Wow! Was I glad to get rid of them!

hang in there! It's only money!

f-d

[Jeff Mando]

hang in there! It's only money!

Good quote! I used to work for a wealthy collector and one of his lines was, "I really don't mind overpaying....if it is something I want."

I thought, "I never heard that one before!"

[Br1ck]

It kind of blows me away, the mandolins that can be had for around $3k right now in the classifieds and Reverb. When selling some of these beauties, their owners might well be wishing they were selling a Collings. Are things that bad in the market?

[ABmando]

Well - I did relist mine on the cafe for $4500. Almost had a buyer - bought I was honest - it is loud and can cut through a mix. BUT it is not ideal for celtic. It is warmer than ADI - but not as soft as Engleman - which to me is more suitable for celtic. So, I lost the sale, but can feel good about. This mando is really for someone looking to cut through mixes and jams, perhaps bluegrass and other forms of music, someone looking for the advantages of ADI with a little more sweetness.

So it is sort of a niche instrument.

The good news - if it sells, I have some money to pay bills. If it does not sell, I have a great mando.

And the other good news - this thread has been a real learning experience for me as well as teach me the value of this wonderful mandolin community here on the Cafe.

[Mandobar]

Well - I did relist mine on the cafe for $4500. Almost had a buyer - bought I was honest - it is loud and can cut through a mix. BUT it is not ideal for celtic. It is warmer than ADI - but not as soft as Engleman - which to me is more suitable for celtic. So, I lost the sale, but can feel good about. This mando is really for someone looking to cut through mixes and jams, perhaps bluegrass and other forms of music, someone looking for the advantages of ADI with a little more sweetness.

So it is sort of a niche instrument.

The good news - if it sells, I have some money to pay bills. If it does not sell, I have a great mando.

And the other good news - this thread has been a real learning experience for me as well as teach me the value of this wonderful mandolin community here on the Cafe.

Alan, I have an MT2V with an Italian top (actually two) that I play at Irish sessions. Haven't overpowered a singer or a fiddle yet. Don't sell this one short. These mandolins are great for ensemble playing.

[Br1ck]

I have been hot and cold about Collings. Started out cold, then warmed up to the signature tone, realizing how well it would perform in a group setting. I also have more bluegrass licks now. But for Celtic and fiddle tunes, my Silverangel is superior for me. But really, I could live with a Collings as an only instrument.

I think the more genre specific your tastes, the more specific your mandolin needs to be. The internet has ended up being a very mixed bag. Like I said, you used to check the want adds in your local paper, go play the one good mandolin listed there, buy it and play it. Now you can spend endless hours over what kind of spruce the top has, the finish, the neck profile, etc. You are far less likely to get a deal, and far less likely to get hosed, because there is the marketplace at you fingertips. Like the old saying goes, it's worth what someone will pay.

Reminds me of taking my wife car shopping. She sees something she likes and bounces up and down in the driver's seat shouting " I love this one." Kind of screws my bargaining ability. Same thing when you play a used instrument you can't put down. They know.

[ABmando]

What great posts you have!

You have a point. I am so use to practicing it alone. But when I was in a group setting, it was exactly the sound I wanted. Alone - it can be a little too much on the "bluegrassy" side. Maybe I should really keep it. I am probably not properly judging it. (But I did need the funds for taxes - and that has passed.)