Page 2 of 3 FirstFirst 123 LastLast
Results 26 to 50 of 54

Thread: Toning down a bright instrument

  1. #26
    Registered User Eric Platt's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    St. Paul, MN
    Posts
    2,045

    Default Re: Toning down a bright instrument

    Another vote for flatwounds. Am using the D'Addario FW74 on my Collings. Still has the same power, but tames the high end edge that modern sounding mandolins seem to have.

    Also been using a heavy or extra heavy celluloid, tortex, or juratex pick. They help keeping things mellow, and don't have the pick click that I find both BC and casein picks have.
    Brentrup Model 23, Boeh A5 #37, Gibson A Jr., Big Muddy M-11, Coombe Classical flattop, Strad-O-Lin
    https://www.facebook.com/LauluAika/
    https://www.lauluaika.com/
    https://www.facebook.com/Longtine-Am...14404553312723

  2. #27
    Registered User Mike Buesseler's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2002
    Location
    Whitefish,MT
    Posts
    1,721

    Default Re: Toning down a bright instrument

    Ok, I’ll be the dumb guy in the back of the room who asks the dumbest questions.

    How about bridge—or at least saddle—material? Wouldn’t a softer wood yield a softer (less bright) sound? Might affect volume, too, I know...but still?

  3. #28
    Registered User Mike Buesseler's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2002
    Location
    Whitefish,MT
    Posts
    1,721

    Default Re: Toning down a bright instrument

    The OP did ask about the bridge, I see. I would think CA would make the mandolin brighter, but that is a guess.

  4. #29

    Default Re: Toning down a bright instrument

    I would think that a bridge of softer material might make the tone sound mushy. Not sure that would improve the sound.

  5. #30

    Default Re: Toning down a bright instrument

    So the mandolin in question is a prototype which I gave away. It was the second oval-hole mandolin I built, and the second Nautilus prototype I built. I was still figuring stuff out on the new design.

    Spencer, I think you see why it was a prototype, now. It’s on the verge of being a great instrument, but just seems like it’s missing something. You can hear the potential in it, but it seems like it's got more to give. And it would, if the top were graduated a little thicker and the body had a little more air volume.

    Strings and picks are like using the tone control of a passive pickup. You can roll off the high frequencies, but you can't add anything. It needs to be balanced, and so what you really need is More Bass. It lacks bass because the body and soundport system are not an optimal design. It's fine, it is what it is, I'd say don't spend money on it, enjoy it for what it is. The only permanent solution is.. a better mandolin.

  6. The Following 4 Users Say Thank You to Marty Jacobson For This Useful Post:


  7. #31
    I really look like that soliver's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2015
    Location
    Marietta, GA
    Posts
    1,745

    Default Re: Toning down a bright instrument

    Thanks for that input Mandobar!

    Love the term "mushy" as a descriptor... very effective, Lol!

    I exchanged a few emails with Marty and he offered a few suggestions as well. Many similar and some interesting and quirky:

    -Many similar string suggestions
    -"Wolltone/Woll pick? It’s rubber… German players swear by them."
    -An interesting not on finding means to "decrease the air volume coming out of the sound hole" by covering the sound hole with tape or putting packing peanuts inside the instrument.

    For now my strategy will be experimenting with strings. I'll spend about $30 on 2 sets of strings: D'Addario Flat wounds and Flat tops and give them a try. I'm happy with my pick choice with the BC TAD60 as it has done a good deal to darken it but I may try some of other things... yet to be determined. If I'm not satisfied, I'll give the Thomastiks a try. If still then, maybe I'll stuff some packing peanuts in there

    I'll do my best to document my findings and share.
    aka: Spencer
    Silverangel Econo A #429
    Soliver #001 & #002: A double stack of Pancakes.

    Soliver Hand Crafted Mandolins and Mandolin Armrests
    Armrests Here -- Mandolins Here

    "You can never cross the ocean unless you have the courage
    to lose sight of the shore, ...and also a boat with no holes in it.” -anonymous

  8. #32
    Mandolin user MontanaMatt's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2017
    Location
    Bozeman, MT
    Posts
    1,252

    Default Re: Toning down a bright instrument

    If you do add packing peanuts, use the biodegradable ones, they could be used as a snack in a desperate situation!
    2007 Weber Custom Elite "old wood"
    2017 Ratliff R5 Custom #1148
    Several nice old Fiddles
    2007 Martin 000-15S 12 fret Auditorium-slot head
    Deering Classic Open Back
    Too many microphones

    BridgerCreekBoys.com

  9. The following members say thank you to MontanaMatt for this post:


  10. #33
    I really look like that soliver's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2015
    Location
    Marietta, GA
    Posts
    1,745

    Default Re: Toning down a bright instrument

    Quote Originally Posted by MontanaMatt View Post
    If you do add packing peanuts, use the biodegradable ones, they could be used as a snack in a desperate situation!
    aka: Spencer
    Silverangel Econo A #429
    Soliver #001 & #002: A double stack of Pancakes.

    Soliver Hand Crafted Mandolins and Mandolin Armrests
    Armrests Here -- Mandolins Here

    "You can never cross the ocean unless you have the courage
    to lose sight of the shore, ...and also a boat with no holes in it.” -anonymous

  11. #34
    Registered User John Bertotti's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2002
    Location
    SD
    Posts
    3,658

    Default Re: Toning down a bright instrument

    Quote Originally Posted by Marty Jacobson View Post
    So the mandolin in question is a prototype which I gave away. It was the second oval-hole mandolin I built, and the second Nautilus prototype I built. I was still figuring stuff out on the new design.

    Spencer, I think you see why it was a prototype, now. It’s on the verge of being a great instrument, but just seems like it’s missing something. You can hear the potential in it, but it seems like it's got more to give. And it would, if the top were graduated a little thicker and the body had a little more air volume.

    Strings and picks are like using the tone control of a passive pickup. You can roll off the high frequencies, but you can't add anything. It needs to be balanced, and so what you really need is More Bass. It lacks bass because the body and soundport system are not an optimal design. It's fine, it is what it is, I'd say don't spend money on it, enjoy it for what it is. The only permanent solution is.. a better mandolin.
    Would something like a small sound post help at all, like used in a violin? Or an added cross brace?
    My avatar is of my OldWave Oval A

    Creativity is just doing something wierd and finding out others like it.

  12. #35

    Default Re: Toning down a bright instrument

    Sound posts don't help, they pretty much wreck the way a mandolin is supposed to work. They work on violin family instruments because of the sustained input of energy, but mandolin-family instruments work very differently. It's basically the same effect as adding a mute of the same mass as the back in the case of a mandolin-family instrument.
    Additional bracing could help this mandolin, but in general, stiffening the top increases high-end response. What this mandolin needs is a bigger air chamber. A smaller sound hole is the only remotely feasible solution, but I'm not sure that would work. Seems like a certain volume of air is needed.

    BTW threads like this are the reason I don't sell an instrument if I'm not 100% confident in its performance, and why I gave it away. No burn on Spencer, he's trying to make it work as well as possible given what it is. But at the end of the day, the structure and geometry of the instrument are far more important to the tone than anything you want to do to it. It's still going to retain its basic character.

  13. The following members say thank you to Marty Jacobson for this post:


  14. #36
    I really look like that soliver's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2015
    Location
    Marietta, GA
    Posts
    1,745

    Default Re: Toning down a bright instrument

    Thanks so much for your input Marty, and thanks for the instrument. I am enjoying it. It has a vastly different sound than my SA, I'm just wanting to tone it down a little.
    aka: Spencer
    Silverangel Econo A #429
    Soliver #001 & #002: A double stack of Pancakes.

    Soliver Hand Crafted Mandolins and Mandolin Armrests
    Armrests Here -- Mandolins Here

    "You can never cross the ocean unless you have the courage
    to lose sight of the shore, ...and also a boat with no holes in it.” -anonymous

  15. The following members say thank you to soliver for this post:


  16. #37
    Registered User mandobassman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Location
    Delran, NJ
    Posts
    2,921

    Default Re: Toning down a bright instrument

    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Garber View Post
    Why not ask Marty? He is, after all, the world expert on Jacobson mandolins.

    Flatwound strings would take down brightness for sure.
    Keep in mind it will only tone down the brightness of the wound strings. If the mandolins' tone is bright overall, flatwound strings won't help the unwound strings. Also, a softer tone pick, such as the Dawg pick, will soften tone but will also affect volume.
    Larry Hunsberger

    2013 J Bovier A5 Special w/ToneGard
    D'Addario FW-74 flatwound strings
    1909 Weymann&Sons bowlback
    1919 Weymann&Sons mandolute
    Ibanez PF5
    1993 Oriente HO-20 hybrid double bass
    3/4 guitar converted to octave mandolin

  17. #38
    I really look like that soliver's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2015
    Location
    Marietta, GA
    Posts
    1,745

    Default Re: Toning down a bright instrument

    Just wanted to update this thread:... I have been on vacation for the last week on Jekyll Island on the GA coast and took the opportunity during some down time to load the Jacobson with some D'addario EFW74 Flatwounds.... I really like the tone! It is a very nice round kind of sound, even on the highs. I honestly think it gained a little volume as well, but that may be completely subjective.

    On a side note, we are on Saint Simons Island this week and I have a friend here on who says he is friends with a local Luthier named Johnny Blevins... When he said Blevins, I mistook him for Eddie Blevins who I now know is in TN. If I have the opportunity and it works out, I may get to visit his shop.
    aka: Spencer
    Silverangel Econo A #429
    Soliver #001 & #002: A double stack of Pancakes.

    Soliver Hand Crafted Mandolins and Mandolin Armrests
    Armrests Here -- Mandolins Here

    "You can never cross the ocean unless you have the courage
    to lose sight of the shore, ...and also a boat with no holes in it.” -anonymous

  18. The following members say thank you to soliver for this post:


  19. #39

    Default Re: Toning down a bright instrument

    Sand gnat country... I love St. Simon's Island. Nice time of year to be there.

  20. #40
    I really look like that soliver's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2015
    Location
    Marietta, GA
    Posts
    1,745

    Default Re: Toning down a bright instrument

    Indeed!... Family Tradition for us, we've spent the first or second week of May on SSI for the last 12 or 13 years (since my oldest was just a few months old) and an additional week on JI for the last 6 years (Jekyll Island Buggy Expo https://www.coastalwindsports.com/JIBE.html) ... we love it down here and alway pine to figure ways of owning a place down here!
    aka: Spencer
    Silverangel Econo A #429
    Soliver #001 & #002: A double stack of Pancakes.

    Soliver Hand Crafted Mandolins and Mandolin Armrests
    Armrests Here -- Mandolins Here

    "You can never cross the ocean unless you have the courage
    to lose sight of the shore, ...and also a boat with no holes in it.” -anonymous

  21. #41
    Fatally Flawed Bill Kammerzell's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2015
    Location
    Annapolis, MD
    Posts
    1,663

    Default Re: Toning down a bright instrument

    We've spent time at both places. Usually May or June. Beautiful.
    Ray Dearstone #009 D1A (1999)
    Skip Kelley #063 Offset Two Point (2017)
    Arches #9 A Style (2005)
    Bourgeois M5A (2022)
    Hohner and Seydel Harmonicas (various keys)

    "Heck, Jimmy Martin don't even believe in Santy Claus!"

  22. #42
    Registered User EvanElk's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2016
    Location
    Portland, Oregon
    Posts
    428

    Default Re: Toning down a bright instrument

    pick the instrument close to or right over the fretboard instead of closer to the oval hole....
    2003 John Sullivan F5 "Roy"
    2015 Heiden F Artist
    2019 Ruhland F5 #35

  23. #43
    Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    Central Illinois
    Posts
    3,563

    Default Re: Toning down a bright instrument

    Another vote for flatwounds !

  24. #44
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Jan 2017
    Location
    Round Rock, TX
    Posts
    105

    Default Re: Toning down a bright instrument

    I have an Eastman that runs to the jangly trebly side. I found soft rounded pick, and Elixir coated strings and a change of attack took the edge off. And playing the heck out of it. However, the thing cuts!

    Compared to a Silver Angel anything would sound trebly.

  25. #45
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Dec 2002
    Location
    Fairfax Co., Virginia
    Posts
    3,013

    Default Re: Toning down a bright instrument

    I distinguish harshness from brightness. Lots to be done to smooth things out, take "too bright and harsh" into "brilliant and luminous." Doesn't always work. Really changes violins!
    Stephen Perry

  26. #46
    I really look like that soliver's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2015
    Location
    Marietta, GA
    Posts
    1,745

    Default Re: Toning down a bright instrument

    I changed both pick and strings and have been enjoying the instrument even more. I'm using a BC TAD60 (Try as I might I can't bring myself to like the sound of a rounded pick.) and have had flat wound strings on it for a week now and have barely touched the SA. Old Dan, you're right that anything would sound bright next to the SA, but the Jacobson is A LOT different now. Very mellow and much less bright with a very Oval Hole sound.

    It's nice to have 2 instruments with such vastly different sounds.

    After the FW strings wear out, I'll try the Flat Tops and report back.
    aka: Spencer
    Silverangel Econo A #429
    Soliver #001 & #002: A double stack of Pancakes.

    Soliver Hand Crafted Mandolins and Mandolin Armrests
    Armrests Here -- Mandolins Here

    "You can never cross the ocean unless you have the courage
    to lose sight of the shore, ...and also a boat with no holes in it.” -anonymous

  27. The following members say thank you to soliver for this post:


  28. #47
    I really look like that soliver's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2015
    Location
    Marietta, GA
    Posts
    1,745

    Default Re: Toning down a bright instrument

    Just wanted to come back to this. I've had the Flat Wound strings (EFW74's) on the Jacobson since May and decided to give something different a try. I still have the Flat Tops (EFT74's) so I carefully took the FW's off to try the FT's and so far I am not impressed. They have that brand new string fuzziness and they seem to have lost me some volume. They only seem slightly different than the J74's (which initially didn't seem to work well on this instrument).

    I'm going to let them settle down a little over the next week or 2 and if it doesn't improve, I'll put the FW's back on.
    aka: Spencer
    Silverangel Econo A #429
    Soliver #001 & #002: A double stack of Pancakes.

    Soliver Hand Crafted Mandolins and Mandolin Armrests
    Armrests Here -- Mandolins Here

    "You can never cross the ocean unless you have the courage
    to lose sight of the shore, ...and also a boat with no holes in it.” -anonymous

  29. #48
    Registered User Glassweb's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Location
    Bellingham, WA
    Posts
    3,110

    Default Re: Toning down a bright instrument

    Quote Originally Posted by soliver View Post
    Oh ... well duh!... apologies for not thinking to mention what's on it currently!!!

    It's strung up with standard issue: J74's.

    I'm familiar with Monels; what are NB's?
    NB = DA Nickle Bronze strings

  30. #49
    I really look like that soliver's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2015
    Location
    Marietta, GA
    Posts
    1,745

    Default Re: Toning down a bright instrument

    I'm honestly very surprised, but it just took overnight for them to settle. Playing it today, it's sounding much better. The FT's were really nice, but maybe a little too dark (if that's possible), but these FT's are a nice bridge between the excessive brightness of the J74's and the FT's... kinda liking the sound now.
    aka: Spencer
    Silverangel Econo A #429
    Soliver #001 & #002: A double stack of Pancakes.

    Soliver Hand Crafted Mandolins and Mandolin Armrests
    Armrests Here -- Mandolins Here

    "You can never cross the ocean unless you have the courage
    to lose sight of the shore, ...and also a boat with no holes in it.” -anonymous

  31. The following members say thank you to soliver for this post:


  32. #50
    Registered User mtucker's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    Los Angeles CA
    Posts
    1,500

    Default Re: Toning down a bright instrument

    Quote Originally Posted by soliver View Post
    The tone on my Jacobson Oval Hole is a little bright and kinda quiet for my taste. I changed my pick to a BC TAD60 which helped, but I'm wondering if a different style strings might help?

    Can you darken or even soften some brashness of the sound and gain volume with any particular kind of strings? Silk and steel? Flatwounds?

    Any recommendations?

    Would a new bridge help? A CA maybe?
    I always recommend contacting the person or company who made it first and resolve it that way rather than taking it to an open forum like this. So much can go wrong with this process (miscommunication mostly) that’s not at all helpful to the cause.

Bookmarks

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •