Help identifying this Gibson Mandolin

[MattH]

Hello,

I’m looking for info on what model and maybe a ballpark value on this Gibson A style.

I don’t see a label anywhere inside.

Looks like the tuners have been replaced. Other than that, just some lacquer checking on the top. Looks to have the original case with keys.

Thanks!

[MikeEdgerton]

It appears to be a Gibson A-40 from the 1930's or 40's and what leads you to believe the tuners have been replaced? They look correct.

Look inside with a flashlight towards the neck block. Is there a number stamped there? You'll need a flashlight.

[MattH]

Thanks! I found a stamp. 33776 or 3377G? The last digit is hard to make out.

Re: the tuners. I can see a faint outline where it looks like they used to be.

[MikeEdgerton]

A look in the Gruhn book and I think it's a 1948-50 A-40.

[MikeEdgerton]

That's a Factory Order Number or FON. I don't have a listing that late. let see what I can find. The Mandolin Archive only lists until 1945. Let me try something else.

The G is coming up as a 1941. Still looking. Hopefully someone with a complete list will jump in. I don't think it's a 41. That number 3377G comes up as a totally different instrument. They did reuse FON's.

[MikeEdgerton]

OK, it appears they used that logo in that color 47 to 54. The A-40 model was available from 1948 to 1970. At some point they went to the Kluson enclosed tuners so I'd say it's from 48 to 54. I can't nail it down any farther. Hopefully someone else can. To check what they are worth check the Sold Listings (in Green) on eBay. Just search for Gibson A-40 and sold listings. Don't pay attention to what they are being offered for. That mandolin has a solid top and a laminated back.

[MikeEdgerton]

As far as the tuners go it may have had a set of Kluson's on it. Kluson buttons crumbled in those years. Does the outline look like the shape of the plate below?

I just looked close at the picture of the tuners, it had Klusons on it. Still puts it in that date range.

[MattH]

OK, it appears they used that logo in that color 47 to 54. The A-40 model was available from 1948 to 1970. At some point they went to the Kluson enclosed tuners so I'd say it's from 48 to 54. I can't nail it down any farther. Hopefully someone else can. To check what they are worth check the Sold Listings (in Green) on eBay. Just search for Gibson A-40 and sold listings. Don't pay attention to what they are being offered for. That mandolin has a solid top and a laminated back.

I thought this was an earlier logo?

[MikeEdgerton]

You might be right. OK, I may be wrong. That shouldn't have a bound back if it's an A-40. Let me look again.

OK, I messed that one up. A-00. Originally they had an oval hole but I missed the fact that they added F holes later.

[MikeEdgerton]

OK, 1939 they added the sunburst finish. Gone by 1943. Now the tuners don't make sense unless Kluson was using that plate on open geared tuners before the war.

[MikeEdgerton]

OK, here is one just like it with the original tuners. They were Kluson without the covers. Good luck on finding any of those.

https://reverb.com/item/13500171-gib...rc=aw.ds&pla=1

Your case appears to be original, the one for sale isn't.

That FON shows up in 1941 but not on one of these so that's confusing but these records might not be 100%.

[rcc56]

That looks like a carved back to me.

I call it a very late A-1. The model went to f-holes in 1934. From 1937 to 1940 they went to an extra large body. This is not one of those. They went back to the standard size in 1941, and discontinued the model in 1943.

The sunburst looks more like its from the forties than from the thirties. I'd call it a circa 1941 A-1. The logo fits the period, the carved back, bound top and back and unbound fingerboard fit the model.

If you look carefully, the footprint of the original Kluson tuners can be seen in the photo. I believe that the current tuners are 1950's Waverly's. The rest of mandolin appears to be original. That's a pre-war case.

[John Rosett]

That looks like a carved back to me.

I call it a very late A-1. The model went to f-holes in 1934. From 1937 to 1940 they went to an extra large body. This is not one of those. They went back to the standard size in 1941, and discontinued the model in 1943.

The sunburst looks more like its from the forties than from the thirties. I'd call it a circa 1941 A-1. The logo fits the period, the carved back, bound top and back and unbound fingerboard fit the model.

If you look carefully, the footprint of the original Kluson tuners can be seen in the photo. I believe that the current tuners are 1950's Waverly's. The rest of mandolin appears to be original. That's a pre-war case.

Definitely an A-1 from that period. Aside from the logo(No A-40s had the pre '47 script logo) it also has a maple back, which no A-40 had.

[MikeEdgerton]

Look through the F hole on the left and you'll see the transverse brace across the back. I don't see that in an A1 spec. The brace is what caused me to misidentify it in the first place. I also recall (but I don't have my books here) that the A1 had the traditional Gibson tailpiece. This has the Waverly Cloud. I do understand that the Gruhn book has some specs wrong but it's usually pretty close.

[Eric Platt]

Thanks! I found a stamp. 33776 or 3377G? The last digit is hard to make out.

Re: the tuners. I can see a faint outline where it looks like they used to be.

3377G is the FON from 1941 for the EM-125 mandolin. This makes me wonder if it is an A-00 model. FON 3372G is a combination of A-00 and EM-125. Also from 1941. And the photos look like a stock A-00 to me, including the cloud tailpiece. That would agree with both Fox and Gruhn in the description. (Gruhn 3rd Edition).

[rcc56]

The rapid changes in Gibson models and specs during the late 30's and early 40's can be confusing. If you add to that the "variations of convenience" that sometimes occurred on the factory floor, accurate identification can turn into a real mess.

I can't tell for sure from the pictures if the back on this one is flat or arched. I do see the brace, which would tend to indicate a flat back. If so, A-00 is the best fit. If the back is arched, A-1 is a closer fit. A side shot of the mandolin would provide the answers.

Either way, though, the mandolin's value is roughly the same-- perhaps around $900 - $1200, give or take a little depending upon condition. The pre-war case helps the value a bit.

[MikeEdgerton]

3377G is the FON from 1941 for the EM-125 mandolin. This makes me wonder if it is an A-00 model. FON 3372G is a combination of A-00 and EM-125. Also from 1941. And the photos look like a stock A-00 to me, including the cloud tailpiece. That would agree with both Fox and Gruhn in the description. (Gruhn 3rd Edition).

Yup, my original misidentification was corrected in post #9 above:

https://www.mandolincafe.com/forum/t...=1#post1705626

The FON had me confused as it was tied to the EM-125. I didn't realize they were connected. I do think it is an A-00. There's also a link to a similar instrument above as well.

[MikeEdgerton]

I can't tell for sure from the pictures if the back on this one is flat or arched. I do see the brace, which would tend to indicate a flat back.

I do know that Gibson pressed an arch into some instruments (Kalamazoo's come to mind) and when they did they put that brace across the back. It may be arched but not carved.

[Lefty665]

I do know that Gibson pressed an arch into some instruments (Kalamazoo's come to mind) and when they did they put that brace across the back. It may be arched but not carved.

The A-00 went to a carved back in '36 and white top and back binding in '39. FWIW the '37 A-00 I have has a carved back, a back brace, tortoise top binding and no back binding. Prior to carved backs they were flat backs, not pressed.

Looks like as the 30's progressed the features of the A-00, A1 and A-50 converged. Savings from simplified production apparently outweighed feature value added. Top and back binding is a good example. '39 and after they all had white top and back binding. Prior to that the A-00 had tortoise binding on the top and no binding on the back while the A-1 & A-50 had white top and back.

Inlaid Gibson, bound fingerboard, sunburst back and no back brace were the surefire giveaways for an A-50, but A-1 showed up with some of those features sometimes, and there are A-50s with screened logos. Gibson, sheesh. FON year letter codes were from A='35 to H='42.

Single line (Kluson Deluxe) sheet metal back Klusons were made ca '47-'52. Not sure what year Gibson started using them, but they are found on some from that era.

[NickR]

You can see that those newer Waverly tuner plates have the imprint of the scalloped Kluson plates at the ends. I have a 1936 made Gibson mandolin that does not have those plates. Gibson started using them in 1937 or 1938- presumably as stocks of the other types used ran down. I bought a set of these Kluson tuners not so long ago on ebay and spent time looking at the patent application. The patent was applied for in 1936- and granted in 1938. Mine had "patent applied for" on them- so were no later than 1938.

Paul Fox in his book sates that the A-OO had Waverly tuners- presumably like my 1936 mandolin and a non-adjustable ebony bridge. However, we know that there are often small variations to the norm.

[Davey]

Just a few observations of my own:

The back looks like Birch, the sunburst is usually more defined on 30's instruments ( I have three here to look at ), and that logo was used on Guitars of around 1946. The case looks 1920's.

[Lefty665]

The back on my '37 looks a lot like the one in the picture. It's got a little flame so I'm pretty sure it's maple. I thought they'd quit using birch by that time. It sure isn't pretty like the flame and sunburst on the back of the A-50. Mine has a lot of mahogany stain. The logo looks the same as mine. I thought they turned that logo yellow in '46 and went to more modern block lettering in '47. But, there were no post war A-00s, and the G in the FON makes the date for sure '41. In '41 both the A-1 & A-50 were wide bodies.

Mine had an adjustable bridge on it when I got it. But I don't think I could tell a 70 year old replacement from an 80 year old original. Tuners on mine had long been replaced. The ones on it had 3 screws, but there were 5 screw holes in the headstock. That would suggest Waverly's in '37.

[MattH]

I snapped a few shots of the back and sides and case.

[Lefty665]

Hi Matt, Looks like folks have pinned it down. '41 A-00, $900-$1,200 depending on condition. In good shape and with the case I'd guess towards the higher end of that range. However, they don't seem to be moving on Ebay recently between $1,000 and abt $1,350. That market may not support the value you would like.

[NickR]

It would be good to see the handle and latches and lock on the case. From what I can see, it looks like it may not be from the same era as the mandolin- assuming it is late 30s rather than late 40s. I'm not an expert, but the back looks like birch to me.