NMD Gibson pre-1910 H-1 Mandola

[HonketyHank]

I managed to come out on top of a surprisingly limited auction on this mandola and I am seeing some things that make me scratch my head. Maybe some of you can help. I hope so.

First of all, it appears to be an H-1 from 1905-1910. I have a little bit of info on models from that era but not much. Anyway I have been experimenting with strings and the tuners that came on it are very stiff, so I decided to take them off at the next string change and clean / lube them. I had the bass side tuners off and I spied a spare set of Grover 309's and for kicks I tried them on and by golly they dropped right in. I was really surprised at that but I decided to use the 309's and save the old tuners. I am pretty sure they are the unadorned Handel tuners that are appropriate for the age of the mandolin.

So I put new strings on the bass side and then figured I would take some pictures with the Handels on the treble side and the Grovers on the bass.

So my observations so far:

1. "The Gibson" inlay is slanted, but not slanted as much as I think most old Gibson inlays were. Does it look "off" to you?

2. The label is appropriate for the presumed age, but it is much cleaner and whiter than I would have expected. There is or was a serial number but it is faded so badly that all I can read for sure is the last two digits, "58". If I had to guess I think it was four digits and maybe even "1058". Is any of this strange?

3. The body shows evidence of reworking. The fingerrest and surrounding area appears to have been sanded but there is still a thin film of celluloid. The top has been restained. The back has been off.

4. It arrived in my hands with mandolin strings on it, probably D'Add J74's. I thought that was odd. Then I noticed the bridge is a mandolin bridge. So maybe a former owner played it as a longneck mandolin (?). And am I wrong, it looks like the bridge is in backwards. Is it possible to find an actual mandola bridge for this thing?

5. Tailpiece: I was surprised it wasn't a pineapple-top tailpiece, but the newer style came into use right at the end of my suspected dates. End pin is a handcarved replacement.

6. Fretboard: No florida, which surprised me. Frets are small with no divots, but maybe dressed down. Nut-end frets are mostly around 0.013-0.017" high; bridge-end frets are as much as .025". All are close to 0.037 wide. I suspect the fretboard has been replaced -- it just looks too good (and possibly real ebony) and the frets look like tiny T-style frets, not bar frets.

6. Sound: Wonderful. I put GHS PF280's on it (12-24-34-48) and they sounded great but I am a bit concerned about the string tension. Right now, I am halfway through restringing it with D'Add EJ80's (12-22-32-46) to see if it sounds OK with them.

7. Case: Quite rugged, looks like it is custom built for this mandola. Exposed foam on the interior. Is the exposed foam a problem?

I guess my questions are:

Are all these things that seem just a little bit odd consistent with an actual Gibson H-1 of 1905-10? If so, can a more precise date of manufacture be ascertained? I can't imagine that this is a counterfeit, but I would not be surprised if it is a mix and match instrument.

All in all, I am quite happy with this thing, but am curious about some of the oddities I think I see.

Photos: will post in a follow up post in a few minutes.

[HonketyHank]

Photos:

[HonketyHank]

Here's a down and dirty video using GHS pf280 strings. Sorry for the flubs, but this is just a sound check for comparison with D'Addario EJ80 strings when I finish restringing.

[HonketyHank]

Oh, one more question - given that the pf280's sounded pretty good to my ear, am I being a scaredy cat for seeking strings with a bit less string tension?

[mrmando]

I'd expect anything with an inlaid pickguard to also have a pineapple tailpiece. That's probably a replacement TP. If you know a luthier you might be able to get a custom bridge carved with the correct compensation.

There was a batch of 1907 Gibsons with similar logo placement on the headstock. There might have been other such batches in other years. Fretboard extensions on non-F instruments were a few years off: the A4 didn't have an extension until 1914. Not sure when they started showing up on mandolas.

If you have some time, click through the Mandolin Archive for photos of other instruments from this period and you'll get a sense of what's normal.

I don't think I could live with the mismatched tuners, but if they work and they don't bother you, you can leave them be.

Congratulations on the find. Lighter is better on the strings, and don't under any circumstances try to tune it as a mandolin.

[HonketyHank]

The tuners aren't mismatched. I just stopped halfway through the replacement process to show how the modern Grovers dropped right into the old Handel tuners holes. I agree it was more confusing and not less to show both together. They don't look "vintage" but they sure are easier to use. Here's a more recent shot:


Will trim strings shortly. I hate pokey strings.

[rcc56]

Oh, one more question - given that the pf280's sounded pretty good to my ear, am I being a scaredy cat for seeking strings with a bit less string tension?

No, you're being sensible.

Once the top sinks from excessive string tension, it's too late. And we see a lot of old Gibson mandolas with sunken tops.

Have a luthier check to make sure the top brace that is located behind the sound hole is not loose. About 10% of the oval hole Gibsons I see have a loose top brace.

Shine a flashlight through the sound hole and see if there is a factory order number stamped on the neck block. That will help to confirm the date of the instrument. Sometimes the number is stamped pretty high up on the block-- you might have stick your nose right down on the top to see it.

I see nothing unusual about the label. 1058 [if that's what it was] would be a very early instrument. Serial numbers as high as 9000 or possibly even 10000 can be found on "Orville label" Gibsons.

I would generally expect a pineapple tailpiece cover on a pre-1910 Gibson. The absence of a fretboard extension on this instrument does not bother me.

Gibson always used T-frets on their instruments. However, some of the 1903-1910 instruments had fingerboards made of so-called "dyed pearwood." Those fingerboards are subject to rot, and some have been replaced with ebony. Your fingerboard appears to be ebony, and the workmanship appears to be pre-war. If it was replaced, it was replaced a long time ago. The .037" wide frets are consistent with what Gibson used in the teens and twenties. If they are only .015" high, you might want to consider a re-fret. The mandola will play more comfortably.

The foam in the case is bothersome to me also. You might want to cover it or try to find a more appropriate case.

[rcc56]

I'll add that a good luthier can make you an appropriate bridge if he can find a clear picture to use as a pattern.

If you bring that instrument to a jam session, you may get more gray hair trying to get your chords straight. It's ok to curse mildly at the mandola.

That's sounds like a good instrument. Enjoy . . .

[bbcee]

Hank, congrats on the score, that is one nice-sounding mandola. Seems like everything is pointing to a risk well taken, and since you've got good luthiers in your area, any of the typical Gibson issues can be easily taken care of.

I hope you find yourself playing it lots!

[HonketyHank]

Luthier visit: I had a luthier with better eyes than mine look and he is pretty sure the serial number is 4058, which puts it in 1905 production year, I think. We couldn't find a FON. It looks like there is a 3/4" thick block glued to the underside of the top directly under the fingerboard - must be some kind of brace that was added. That block obscures the view looking back toward the neck block.

The brace has definitely been reglued but appears to be solid. On that basis, I think I am going to take off the D'Addario EJ80's and go back to the GHS PF280's because I liked the tone better. The string tension calculator HERE shows total tension on the D'Addarios at 174 lbs and for the GHSs at 190. The same calculator comes up with 203 lbs for D'Addario EJ72 strings which they label as 'light'.

[soliver]

Congrats Hank!... looks and sounds like a beaut!

[Jim Imhoff]

Hi Hank; I don't have the technical and historical background to comment on the unusual features, and it sounds like you have a luthier already lined up. But I have had great work done on several instruments including 1918 K2 and a 1911 K4 Mandocellos by Mike at Fretworks in Portland. I will also repeat my enthusiastic invitation to join us in the OMO--we need more mandolas. And it's a fun group that plays some serious music.

[tmsweeney]

Here's a down and dirty video using GHS pf280 strings. Sorry for the flubs, but this is just a sound check for comparison with D'Addario EJ80 strings when I finish restringing.

very nice tone ! Bright on the edges but a deep and wide root.

[BoxCarJoe]

"I think I am going to take off the D'Addario EJ80's and go back to the GHS PF280's because I liked the tone better."

I'm a big fan of the PF280's also.
Every time I change strings it's like getting a new instrument.
The gauge feels right to me also.

Nice dola.

[Louise NM]

Well done, Henry. That's one sweet-sounding 'dola.

[J.Albert]

Sounds great.
I'd keep the lowest tension possible on it, string-wise.

[Mark Gunter]

Here's a down and dirty video using GHS pf280 strings. Sorry for the flubs, but this is just a sound check for comparison with D'Addario EJ80 strings when I finish restringing.

My, what a beautiful tone you have there, Henry! I’m excited for you, that was a nice score! May you play it in good health with much enjoyment.

[tmsweeney]

tried the pf280s on my Weber, they are lighter than the John Pierce, and sound brighter so far, but I was shocked at the length.
The Weber is standard 17" scale, but the inside G and D strings could barely reach the peg, the G inside doesn't have wound string on the peg, just the inside single steel, which makes me wonder about slippage, the E string was the opposite it was twice as long as the Mandola, almost like they just mixed and matched mandolin and guitar strings and called it a mandola set, I just put them on so too soon to tell, but I am concerned about the length.

[HonketyHank]

You know, now that you mention it, I think I saw the same thing. Not quite as bad though, because the strings hook on the tailpiece of a Weber about an inch farther from the nut compared to the Gibson.

[tmsweeney]

Well they do sound brighter, but it sounds more like a mandolin, I think I prefer the "alto" tone as a compliment to the soprano mandolin, and surprisingly these are more buzzy above the 12th, than say the John Pierce I have been using, so nice suggestion but I probably will not use the GHS on the mandola, maybe I will try some Curt Mangan's, I did put PF285s on my Weber Gallatin Octave and it is less muddy than the John Pierce so will try that for a while.

[William Smith]

Very Nice Dola Hank! That shows things we think of with the man Orville's work! Yours would've had different tuners, tailpiece cover, the inlaid guard could be replaced, the bridge I'm not too sure about, That would've had an end opening leather case correct? I love them old obscure Gibson mandolins! Nice Score!

[HonketyHank]

I do have the original tuners, or at least the tuners that came on the mandola and which are of the correct period. The Grovers turn a lot easier though. The tailpiece cover is a newer Gibson than the original, but this ain't a museum piece, right? Pretty sure the fretboard is not original. Lotsa scars and scrapes semi-hidden by some refinish work. Bridge is of the correct style but is a mandolin bridge. I whittled a new one from some ebony I have on hand and with intonation steps more likely to work. Having a luthier fit it for me as we speak.

Yeah, the case was probably originally an end opening leather or pasteboard one but I didn't get that. It came in a custom case that you could drive a tank over and not damage the contents. Nice, but a bit heavy.

Like I said, it isn't a museum piece, but it is highly playable. Seller had it miscategorized (as a book) on eBay, so it was a low hanging fruit ripe for a sniper like me.

[William Smith]

I'd rather have an instrument that sounds fantastic than one that looks perfect so ole repairs, finish damage etc.. doesn't bother me at all, they're made to be played and loved. I've said it before as if you don't want play wear/finish missing, scratches, dings and dents well keep it in a glass case/original case to look at because I don't care how careful one is you play them they will get all the above wear!