do you hammer or press your frets-do you use glue?

[darylcrisp]

just gathering some info for myself.



1)on a mandolin body that is finished(new or refret), do you hammer or press your frets in the slots?
(hammer-what type do you prefer)
(press-what are you using)

1a)where the neck meets the body and there on, how do you deal with that area?

2)do you use glue, and what type?

thank you
d

[rcc56]

We all have our personal preferences on this.

I generally use a hammer, and Titebond liquid hide glue. Be sure the bottle is fresh-- the stuff goes bad after a year. Go to their website to de-cipher their date code.

I often make my first pass across the fret with a hardwood block held between the hammer and the fret, then chase it with the hammer alone. Many prefer a hammer with a soft head, but I use a lightweight carpenter's hammer. I don't hammer hard enough to damage the fret wire.

For the fingerboard extension, I hold a heavy hardwood block inside and under the fingerboard. Sometimes I press a few of those frets in with a c-clamp and caul. Obviously, you can't do this with an f-hole mandolin. If necessary, the barbs can be ground off the tang or flattened with the flat jaw of the Stew-mac fret crimper before driving the fret.

The frets in the extension must be sized to go in easily no matter what techniques you use, or you risk driving the fretboard right through the top.

I have gotten in the habit of knocking the square corner off the back of the fret tang before I use the wire. The frets go in easier that way.

Go to frets.com and read the articles on fret replacement. Lots of questions are answered there.

[Greg Mirken]

I have always tapped frets in. I've used several kinds of mallet over the years, but for the last decade or so I have used a dead-blow hammer that weighs 9 ounces. The maker is Lixie. It has a hard face that I use for frets, and a softer face used mainly on annoying customers, but also for jobs like easing a part into place without leaving a mark. I don't use a general application of glue, but on a mushy board I will follow up with a drop of thin CA at each fret end and clamp with an old Hamilton capo. Over the body I squish the tangs with one of Frank Ford's special tang-squishing pliers to make them very easy to tap in, and support underneath the face as best I can.

[buckhorn]

I use a 500lb press from Harbor Freight.. My first few, I tried the hammer, but was hard to hold and would spring out after a few coerces.. Before the fret board is attached, I use a piece of oak to cushion between the wire and the ram of the press and usually use a couple pieces of oak before all is done.. If doing a radioused board. the oak piece can be arched too... Of course itwouldn;t work if the fret board is already mounted...

[sunburst]

I went through epoxying them, gluing them, pressing them with an arbor press, and finally came back to using a cheap plastic-faced hammer that I've had for probably over 30 years.
As for the extended portions of guitar and mandolin fingerboards, I file a little off of the barbs on the fret tangs, support the fingerboard on a heavy metal "thing", and gradually tap the frets in.
When fret slots are too wide for hammering frets, I use epoxy or glue. These situations arise when fingerboards have been re-fretted many times and the slots are worn out and when the frets were originally glued or epoxied into over-size slots, and in both cases it is re-fret work rather than new fret work.

[pops1]

I hammer them in, and only use glue if something wants to lift. Like on a bound fingerboard at the ends of the fret. CA and clamp for those times. I use a dead blow hammer, used the same hammer for 20+ years and finally had to get a new one. You don't need to hit hard, just tap them in, pre bending for a radius and slightly over bend.

[darylcrisp]

thank all of you, each reply has a lot of value for me.

one more question.

do you prefer to tap in both ends, then tap center out to each side?
or
do you prefer to start on one end and simply go across?



thank you
d

[John Kelly]

I tend to tap one end in, then work across the fret. I give the fret a very gentle curve (even on a flat profiled fingerboard) and I believe this helps the ends of the frets to seat better and be less prone to lifting. As others have said, I generally fret the board before I attach it to the neck if I am building the instrument from new. Leave out a couple of frets at maybe the 3rd and then the 12th and drill a small hole in the fret slot and use this to put in register pins which go through the holes and into the neck, allowing you to get the neck and fretboard accuratley lined up for gluing. I also have made a small drift from a short length of round brass bar and I have filed a groove across the end of this so that I can accuratlet tap any fret which is giving me a problem when seating it.
Ultimately, after trying out various methods, you will find a method which suits your way of working - as John Hamlett says above.

[bpatrick]

On new construction, I fret the boards prior to gluing. As stated, registering pins are the way to go. I use the Stew Mac arbor press with brass inserts in my drill press. It's pricey, but works really very well. For on instrument work, I use a small plastic orange dead blow hammer and/or a small carpenter tack hammer with masking tape over the head. I typically run a small bead of Elmer's white glue on the tang prior to inserting. As far as tapping, I generally hold the fret across the entire slot and then hammer from one side to the other. But I don't know that the direction is critical. It's probably more critical to make light even strokes across the fret until everything is well seated. Then you can whack it a bit harder as necessary.

[sunburst]

...do you prefer to tap in both ends, then tap center out to each side?
or
do you prefer to start on one end and simply go across?

Not really any of those.
I start one end of the fret, then lightly work across not fully setting the fret, but tapping it just hard enough to start it to "stick" in the slot. I then work back and forth the fret seating it fully.
If I fully set one end and then work from there fully setting the fret, that bends the fret so that the ends may lift.
If I set both ends fully and then work the center, that can also bend the fret. When frets are bent during installation, there tends to be more work to leveling them because there are high and low places across the fret.

When all goes well, the frets fit the slots really well and I don't have any accidents, I can usually check the installed frets with a "fret rocker", adjust the level with my fretting hammer, then give the tops a quick rub with a fine diamond sharpening stone and see contact at all fret tops. Usually there are a few places that need some work, but generally half a dozen strokes with the diamond "stone" gets all frets level all the way across. That didn't happen overnight. It took years of fret work to be able to hammer frets and have them turn out that near level. It is also largely attributable to the work we do preparing for the frets.

[amowry]

I press in frets with my drill press (I fret before the board is on the neck), and it's very fast and consistent. I set 7 or 8 frets in their slots and then press them in-- it probably takes about 2 seconds per fret. On new instruments I don't typically glue them in, but I do make sure the fret slot is just the right width for whatever wire I'm using. I use a narrower slot for EVO, for example, than for most nickel-silver wire.

Hammering frets in definitely requires more skill (practice), as John mentioned.

[bpatrick]

John did a much more eloquent description of proper fret hammering technique. What he said!

[j. condino]

There are so many variables involved that to be good at it, you really need to be well versed in several methods. I'm always amazed when I hear novices say they are interested in building instruments, so they want to start with fretwork. It took me hundreds of fret jobs to feel like I really had it down well and could get consistent excellent work while knowing exactly why.....

[darylcrisp]

thank you for the replies and excellent info. lots of things I'm learning with this thread.

a lot of years of work and wisdom being shared-thank you all again.

I've refretted some guitars, and the soundhole gave me ease of options of how to refret beyond the neck joint. I've refretted a few mandolins but only up to the 7th fret. so far everything has went good and ended up with pleased owners. I go slow, take my time, clean the fret lines out of any junk, and take my time doing the replacement frets-I use a fret press. I have a nice mandolin on my table now and the owner wants a full refret, and a different wire(the replacement fretwire has the same size tang width/depth), so I've removed the old frets, will clean the cuts out fully, then proceed slowly. the area of nearing the heel of the neck and over the body has me looking for solid info before I start. I have an old banjo neck and this weekend I plan to practice hammer time on it, cut some new lines in it and practice those also.

anything else you think to mention, please do, I'm totally open for warnings, info, speculation.

thanks again folks for sharing your knowledge with us
d

[darylcrisp]

I went through epoxying them, gluing them, pressing them with an arbor press, and finally came back to using a cheap plastic-faced hammer that I've had for probably over 30 years.
As for the extended portions of guitar and mandolin fingerboards, I file a little off of the barbs on the fret tangs, support the fingerboard on a heavy metal "thing", and gradually tap the frets in.
When fret slots are too wide for hammering frets, I use epoxy or glue. These situations arise when fingerboards have been re-fretted many times and the slots are worn out and when the frets were originally glued or epoxied into over-size slots, and in both cases it is re-fret work rather than new fret work.

John
the heavy metal thing-would this be an anvil?
I have my great grandfathers anvil(he was a blacksmith in Wheelwright, Ky.
do you lay a blanket on the metal, lay the instrument on that, and proceed carefully and attentively?

thank you
d

[sunburst]

The "heavy metal thing" must be small enough to fit in through the soundhole. Technically it's an anvil, I suppose, but not the usual kind that certainly will not fit through the soundhole!
I often use a dolly, meant for auto body work, for guitars, and I sometimes use a right angle piece of metal for oval hole mandolins, and to fit between the fingerboard extender and the top of f-hole mandolins.

I think there is still such thing as a "Taylor fret buck", 'though it might not be sold through Taylor guitars anymore. I've always said to myself that I would make one someday, but or course, I haven't done it.